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Naughtius_Maximus

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  1. Pretty sure I addressed this over a year ago. Quit the game about the same time in disgust Softest way to fix this would be to scale all guns properly. We can either only give them ONE buff per tier. If there is an extra turret well that's the buff then. If caliber increases, ditto. No more hey this new tier has an extra turret, better pen, accuracy, AND range. Meanwhile defense remains stagnant at best, regressive would be more accurate. Or instead of arbitrary line limits and radar, you scale all shell velocities so that the Cleveland's current shell flight times are the fastest. Aka nerf the bejesus out of everyone's shell flight time. ~12 seconds to fly 14km, fastest shell velocity. Only gets slower from there. Cleveland (well tier 6 Cleveland, haven't played in a while) was where it was at. If you had all Clevelands the game was to be quite entertaining as many closed the gap just so they can hit each other. More skilled players shot from further away, but max range (16km with pre nerf AFT) was fairly difficult to land. You can play in the open in Cleveland only fight just because the shell flight time made accuracy more.....historical.
  2. Pan-Asian Ships = bringing out the worst

    Then play active. Make 30 degree turns every 30 seconds or so and you will see most torpedoes whiff when fired at the indicator. Those fired outside of it are pure guesswork and usually aren't enough to sink someone in a 20 minute game. Again, oh wait making turns that "exaggerated" means I risk citadels from everyone within 18km. Again, problem is not the torpedoes then, which have laughably low average damage per game. It's the guns. The fact BBs are more concerned about AP than torpedoes is a pretty good indicator of how garbage torpedoes are, or how OP guns are. All they have to do is show a bit of broadside for maybe 10 seconds every 30 seconds and they'll almost never sink purely from torpedo damage. But they won't do it, since AP is so much more OP. If you want to play aggressive and maneuver as historical ships did (aka stop passive/camping,) nerf the guns.
  3. Pan-Asian Ships = bringing out the worst

    Torpedoes counter camping, as their hit rate is based entirely on the victim's potential movement during travel time. Make a turn? Oh look the torps miss by about 2km. Go at sub 15knt speeds onlly moving forward and backwards? Easy 80% hit rate. Oh wait you can't ever turn, because you risk citadels when you do. Problem there has never been the torpedoes, but the guns keeping you from moving like a ship historically did (unless you want to argue bow on 8 knt movement is "historical.") This is why nerfing IJN torpedoes back then did nothing to stop camping. In fact made camping worse as there is less punishment for traveling at hilariously slow speeds.
  4. How to fix passive meta

    Your emphasis is incorrect. Look, I can tell you clearly are grasping at straws here and haven't thought this through. Guns are fine and Concealment should get nerfed? That sounds like some solid counterargument on paper, and then you realize you just negated one line. USN DDs guns are fine, they get buffed appropriately per tier. The problem is clearly concealment, let's boot their concealment! .......oh, wait
  5. How to fix passive meta

    What part of Concealment remains the approximately the same per tier did you not understand? It's not Concealment relative to gun range. It's Gun Range relative to Concealment. You don't pick the thing that changes as the base line, come on.....When something is wrong, you fix what has changed, not what works. Concealment already works perfectly fine in lower tier, as do guns. When tiers go up, all that goes out the window because guns don't work properly anymore. The problem then is not concealment, which doesn't change, it's guns. For example, changing concealment yet keeping USN 5" doesn't work, since you're basically asking USN 5" users to die in any engagement where they're lit. Which is why a nerf to shell flight time or dispersion is required. USN 5", no matter how much pen, range, or accuracy you give it, will always have the same effective range of ~11km. Usually much less depending on player skill. The shell flight time just ensures it. Nerfing it this way, shortens the range where it is safe to maneuver closer to the unchanging concealment levels, thereby allowing people to not be as reliant upon vision providers to determine the amount of DPS they'll be taking. As mentioned before, lower tiers can determine that and make maneuvers before entire enemy team is within high DPS range of it. They can, in many more situations, dictate how much they are willing to take. The exchange being their own DPS output. Contrast this in higher or even mid tiers, as soon as you're lit you can be within danger range (<15km, when you get lit at ~11km) of everyone on that half of the map, and be dead by the time you even try to maneuver. The passivity comes from that.
  6. How to fix passive meta

    Relative concealment between tiers does not change between tiers. As in, ships remain approximately the same as their line's original concealment throughout the game. For example outside tier 7 DDs most DDs keep to the same concealment they inherited from their predecessors. Same can be said for cruisers. What changes are the guns. Hence the best fix are the guns. Also in the previous thread, I answered that. The difference is you can make an informed decision well before you get into danager ramge. This allows you to determine how much DPS you are willing to tolerate (how close yuou get) to be able dish out your own DPS. In high tiers sure, you can go do that past 15km, but you cannot make informed decisions on where 15km is once sustained visiom (namely DDs) have been taken out. Hence the predictable retreat once DDs die. Pubs just can't handle the potential first strike from everyone on that half of the map. Contrast this to low tiers where engagement is constant and dynamic with people moving historically rather than relying on a wafer thin piece of armor.
  7. How to fix passive meta

    The only reason DDs are useful for high tier is to control vision. They don't deal appreciable damage. If you tone down the importance of vision by nerfing the guns, you naturally tone down the importance of DDs. Hell in low tier people don't really care if you are firing from smoke because effective range of guns is so much more balanced. Again, the root cause of this all revolves around firepower being increasingly OP as tiers progress.
  8. How to fix passive meta

    DDs are useful only as vision providers in high tier. Saying they deny areas with torpedoes is disingenious when their average damage is horrendous. What is really happening is they are denying areas because you can't risk being lit up for half the enemy team's guns. That is not the same as torpedoes being useful, or DDs being relevant. Hell the only DD able to truly contribute outside of spotting is basically a light cruiser in all but name. Hey you know tiers where this doesn't happen? Where you don't get lit and within immediate danger range of half the enemy team? Low tier. Want to know the difference? Guns are balanced in low tier. Petition for dispersion or shell flight time balancing. A good example are the USN 5" guns. No matter how much range you give them, how much accuracy, how much DPM, how much pen, they will still have roughly the same effective range as lower tier counterparts. Or you could just remove most if not all of those gun buffs per tier and just go with hard stat buffs, where a ship only gets gun buffed if there is an extra turret (more alpha/DPM,) higher caliber (pen/alpha,) or shell (SHS = more pen/alpha.) None of this nonsense especially with accuracy improving per tier. If you can't hit from that range, you move closer until you can. When you can determine threats and choose your own DPS tolerance as opposed to get lit and immediately be in cit range of half the map, game will get less passive. Firepower is the root cause of this problem, and we already have working models to fix this.
  9. How to fix passive meta

    Simplest way? Cleveland shell flight time as the new fastest shell flight time, then scale slower shells with slower shell flight time. So for example, Moskva shell flight time = Cleveland's current time. Cleveland's current time = Friant's current time (I say Friant because I am playing it now. 13 sec for 12km.) It is fairly good example as the Cleveland has always had issues hitting past 12km. Back when AFT worked for cruisers it even had 16km range. People could hit at that range, but it was definitely not ideal DPS range. Same thing should happen here.
  10. How to fix passive meta

    I'm late, but to add to what Haze is saying. The primary difference between higher and lower tier is effective range vs concealment range. Effective range is caused by a mixture of pen/dispersion/shell flight time vs armor/mobility. Concealment range pretty much never change, with ships in each line maintaining the general concealment of its higher and lower tier countdrparts. In lower tier effective range is a few KM within concealment range. You can technically fire at ranges where you get lit......but it wouldn't normally be productive to do so. As such you can make informed decisions on how much DPS you are willing to tolerate to deal your own. As a result lower tiers are a lot more dynamic than higher tier ones, with ships willing to continuosly engage while making maneuvers. DDs don't really matter for vision and there is little difference between whether one side has DDs or not. You'll fight all the same. Contrast this with high tier where the effective range is many km past the typical concealment range. No ship outside of DDs can reliably provide vision since any larger ship lighting enemies at ~11km can potentially be within range of anyone on that half of the map. There is just no nuance. You are either safe or in imminent danger. Hence the general slow retreat once DDs die. Vision is too important because they enable firepower, and firepower become OP as **** as tiers go up. This is the primary reason why changes to DD torpedoes and CVs did literally nothing, because they aren't the root problem. Hell the entire reason why DDs were nerfed in the first place was because being vision providers and dealing respectable damage makes them OP. So instead of dealing with the root problem WG neuters their damage capabilities. I'm open to fixing this. Simply rebalance the guns with lower tier as the model. Balanced shell flight times or low tier dispersion/pen would do much to fix this.
  11. You don't see it in low tiers because you can actually angle with ships in low tiers. Pen and dispersion are so balanced that it is very unlikely you will be cit until well within 7km and flat broadside. It's much more practical to bring out all guns to bear than it is to go bow on for the defense you already get while angled. As such, you can see opponents well before they are in ideal DPS range and can determine how much DPS you are willing to tolerate in order to enter your own zone of ideal DPS. Versus high tier where as soon as you're lit you can be in critical DPS range of anyone inside 15km (which can include half the enemy team)....except you get lit at 11-14km. Torpedoes are unrelated to this, but you bring up a good point. They force movement, not cause camping.
  12. There are tiers where people don't bow on because they would prefer to get all guns to bear. It's called low tiers. The best way to fix bow camping is to not eliminate autobounce (we need more defensive options,) but to properly scale firepower. In low tiers most ships have either balanced dispersion paired with balanced pen, or balanced shell flight time. I say we go back to what works, and model it off either of these two. These are the two simplest methods to address this. Shell Flight time: Friant, the tier 3 French Cruiser I'm getting Doubles for example, has something like 12km range, which is huge at tier 3. Except that it takes something like 13 seconds to travel that far. Just like the USN 5" that is making USN DD gameplay atrocious in high tier, no matter how much you buff other gun properties per tier, the effective range would not grow appreciably. This is the simplest method to balance gun performance without player revolt (aka whiners all about "muh guns" that turned WoT into a game of lasertag.) Technically you could cit someone in a Yamato at 26km (not that it wasn't rare already,) but with lower tier shell flight time, it's unlikely. Dispersion: Basically, don't ever buff dispersion on ships as they grow per tier. End of story. They can get buffs to guns related to hard stats: more guns on the ship (Aoba to Myogi for example,) higher caliber on the ship (more damage and pen,) or different shell use (USN SHS,) but nothing else.
  13. Thoughts on Deep Water Torpedoes and Heal

    Oh yeah, let's just make them glorified sentries as opposed to an actual class. Lower tiers have comparable damage numbers (still lower) to their in tier rivals. In higher tiers as vision becomes increasingly important due to increasingly OP guns, DDs cannot both control vision and deal respectable damage. Would naturally be too OP. Since WG can't possibly balance guns properly, they opted to dumpster the class' damage capabilities. IJN and USN DDs, the classes made before they shifted to this terrible playstyle, predictably get hit the worst. Also one of the reasons why I am so insistent on a gun nerf, but still it is the simplest (and hence best) fix to any camping/unhistorcal bow on/reversing complaints out there.
  14. Thoughts on Deep Water Torpedoes and Heal

    That's the point. Shima's damage output is atrocious considering what it normally targets, which is comparitavely the same as Yamato. Which is all I need to point at. The entire reason why you are getting hit to begin with is because you are not playing realistically, oftentimes relying on a wafer thin piece of armor (compared to the rest of the ship) while moving back and forth at 8 knts. Move realistically and in the 30 sec minimum travel time where he tries to stealth torp you, you could be so far from the indicator as to not even detect the torpedoes. That's how drastic movement can get when varying movement at 30knts as opposed to 8.
  15. Thoughts on Deep Water Torpedoes and Heal

    "Slow Moving" Does not equate to "will get hit." At ~30 knts you can vary your movement to dodge even Shima spreads by several KM in the time it takes to travel to you. It can vary so much that sometimes you will not even detect the torpedoes with how far he whiffed. Regular zig zag patterns will do, as well as changing acceleration between max and 1/2 every reload or so. Tell me, how often are you actually playing realistically like that? Oh wait you're moving at 8knts back and forth in nearly a straight line instead because guns prevent you from maneuvering. That is not the torpedo's fault. They benefit from your camping, yes, but they do not cause it. Buffing punishments to camping is the way to go, or alternatively, nerfing the mechanics that encourage camping (the guns, obviously.)
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