Attack_Dog_Corgi

31 SC's no ship, but some good stuff. In order of opening below. TLDR; 9k doubloons, 30k coal, 50k free xp, 4x 7day premium time, 2x 14 day premium time and a ton of decent flags and camos. Nothing to complain about here. 1k doub 50 padraig camo 50 gamescom black 50 ouroboros 7 days prem 5k doubs 50 Regia Marina camo 100 india xray 1k doubs 100 zulu hotel 100 sierra mike 14 prem 100 india x ray 100 india yankee 7 day prem 100 nov echo 1k doubs 1k doubs 25 dragon flags 14 days prem 7 days prem 100 india delta 50k fxp 15k coal 7 days prem 25 dragon 15k coal 25 red dragon 25 scylla 50 padraig camo 100 equal speed cl

Thanks Skidmark, at least a few got the point I was trying to make. I'm no pro, but I think playing CV more illustrated issues with my own gameplay and thought it might be helpful to others. o7

First, don't put words into my mouth and turn my post into something it isn't. I made ZERO claims about the opposition to CV's, or who is or isn't justified in their opinion. Nor did I say anyone 'needed' to learn a damn thing. I simply suggested, as a person who has usually sucked in CVs, that by taking the time to learn to play a CV somewhat showed me it can pay dividends when playing other boats. You're talking completely out of your a$$ - I just love it when forum heroes spew garbage like: 'The cold hard truth is this. CVs get defended by and large by bad players. CVs and their mechanics get attacked by mostly the good players.' - so Mr forum hero, what statistics are you basing this on? The ones you just pulled from your rectum like so many other idiots do when someone touches them in a bad place? It seems the go-to for forum heroes everywhere is to spew nonsense like 'every good player says 'x' when there are rarely, if ever, ANY statistics backing up a claim. 'However the higher you go in WR the more people you will find that have fundamental issues with CVs. Over the past year unicums and those who are actually good at this game have been told over and over to adapt by absolute potatoes in their 40s . Its an insult to continuously be told to adapt or to "just play CV to learn it" by people who never "Adapted" to or learned to play the game in the first place. ' - Ah, more statistics pulled from 'The 2020 Book of Rectum' by eviltane. Your opinion only, and entirely irrelevant to the point of this post, especially from someone with <50 CV games ever. My stats in DD's are a little better than average. My win rate (as if this makes ANY difference in someone's ability to reason) is in the low 50s. My PR in DD's is in the 1400s, in the Shima it's nearly 1900 - where I've played more games in it that you have (645) across nearly all your DD's combined. So I'm not some potato telling you to 'git gud'. I'm not not having an issue in the majority of CV games because I change how I play. I DO adjust my playstyle when a CV is in the match. Just like any team adjusts it's playstyle to better offset an opponent, and that's the point of the post. You see NFL teams stack the box against good running offenses, and drop to extend pass coverage when playing teams that mainly pass. This is NO different from what I've suggested in matches with a CV. So quit being offended and when told to go learn something and keep embracing your stupidity. The facts are these: CV's are not going anywhere. Spending time doing anything new and devoting time to really learn it - learning to play CV, gardening, playing a musical instrument generally makes you better at whatever it is. As you learn to be better in CV, you learn what are easy pickings are for a CV (it doesn't matter if 'everything' is easy pickings, some are easier than others), you can adapt your playstyle to lessen the impact as a non-CV player. At no point have I claimed you can negate the impact of a CV in the match. I DID claim there are things you can do to make yourself less of a target. YOU might find my advice useful. YOU do not have unicum stats, you have a PR in the 1400's. You have a TOTAL of 47 games in a CV, 33 of which are in Shokaku. NONE in any T10, so right off the bat I can say with certainly you are speaking from no experience of your own here when telling all of us what the unicums say about CV's. So maybe instead of being 'insulted' at being told to learn to play it would be worth the investment to know thy enemy a little better, and better equip yourself to handle a CV threat.

I wonder if half of the posters in my thread even bothered to read it. I wrote this to encourage everyone to try CV for a while. This was done to give non-CV players who rant about 'OP CV' non-stop my findings after taking a while to learn CV's better, in order to improve my game in ALL OTHER SHIP TYPES. Things I did NOT do in this thread: State CV's are over, under or any kind of 'powered', or give my thoughts about the status of CVs in the game, or an opinion of 'if they belong' or any such nonsense. Say any other class is more or less useless because of CV, although a couple of posters here have hijacked this thread instead of making their own post about their personal skill in some class of ship or another. Things I DID do in this thread: Suggest that if everyone took a small amount of time to watch CV play and/or try themselves, it can help their play in other ship types, once you learn what makes a good/poor target for a CV player. Suggest positioning and tactics to reduce chances of a CV focusing you down. Suggest that learning enough about CVs and their armaments will enable you to make smarter decisions about when to use/not use AA, damage control, etc. What we ended up with was one person from the Asia servers telling everyone how awesome he is in CV, and suggests anyone who can't post unicum stats in one is a sh!tlord. He has yet to offer any advice other than if he wants to sink any ship in any game at any time he can. I guess that's a benefit of being Lord of the Flies of people who play on the Asia server. The helpful advice and point of my original post is lost. I rarely post here, despite playing since beta. When I do, it's usually to try and offer something helpful. Now I remember why I don't post much. Too many blowhards who don't read and just spew their own agenda on top of any and every one else.

Annnnd there it is. Find another post to troll.

The whole point of this thread was to encourage others to consider playing CV, in order to better learn to mitigate the impact an enemy CV has on them when playing other ships. This isn't a thread for you to whip out your epeen and tell everyone because you're a unicum in a CV, they are OP. It's not for you to whine that DD's are 'useless' because I myself and many others disprove that daily. If you can sit back and take an objective view, there are a lot of us who can learn to be better in all ship types by taking a moment to learn a little of CV gameplay. Learn what enemy tactic frustrates you as a CV player, then mimic that behavior the next time you're in a DD, CA/CL, or BB.

I'm sorry, I guess my Shimakaze and Harugumo aren't T10 any more. I stand corrected.

Good answer, would hate to make you back up your comment with any relevant statistic since I just posted MY OWN stats in DDs, two of which are almost entirely stealth dependent, from the last 3 weeks. If you suck in DD's because a CV gets in your match, that's a problem you have to offset to some degree. CVs can't be everywhere on the map at once. By paying attention to where the planes are on the map you can still exert a lot of force elsewhere. I love it when someone makes a comment that's been disproved, then leaves because the guy with factual data 'has no clue'. Carry on. As the man once said - You can lead a horse to water......

Here are snips from my last 21 days - I just snipped out DDs because I play everything. Either I am the exception to the rule, or you need to adapt your play style in CV matches. Making a blanket statement like 'Meh... the problem is the only way to play vs a cv in a dd is to sit back and do jack shyt..' is the reason for my post. It's an absolute crock of [edited]. I'm quite sure many of those matches included CV's

Hey gang, it's another CV thread! YAYAYYYYYY! That being said, it's the ship class I am the worst at playing, so yesterday I took advantage of some extra time off due to a doctor's appointment and spent the afternoon trying to learn to be a better CV player. I'm a DD main, and do pretty well in them most of the time but I'm strictly average ( or barely so) in BB's and CA's and I'm a poor CV player. Unlike a lot of DD players, I don't get annoyed by CV's in a match. Yes, sometimes you get matched with a CV player who will focus you down, but I've found adjusting my playstyle when a CV is in a match can mitigate to some degree what a CV can do to you. In searching for guides/videos on recent GOOD CV play to watch on YouTube, I found some incredibly helpful, RECENT ( like this month recent) videos from a channel called TopTier. I think he/she is on the EU server but I don't think that's relevant. These videos often include the captain builds, ship upgrades and most include subtitles describing why the player is attacking certain targets or in general why he/she is doing what they are doing. I don't know this person, but I'd like to offer thanks, as applying some of the tactics to my own gameplay is already paying some dividends for my sorry butt. Here's a snapshot of yesterday, which aren't great but far better than typical for me: The best part of this, though, is that in spending time to get better at CV, it's bound to improve my play in other ships. Here are just some of the tips and tactics I've picked up from both the TopTier videos and from my follow-up gameplay yesterday: Positioning: DON'T be the one player yoloing into a position. It's annoying to your team to be THAT player as it is. If there is an enemy CV on the other side, you've just nominated yourself as a dog treat for the CV player and gimped your team. You see this a LOT with DD's at the start of matches. Hang back at half speed until you know where the enemy CV planes are (usually scouting everything) and pick and push a cap AFTER that first pass, and IF you have support. Many times a DD will push into a cap early, the rest of the team bails on that cap for whatever reason, and the DD is left alone and whining about 'OP CV'. DON'T think an island waifu will protect you. Island hugging is great for lobbing shells at other ships, but if a CV finds you even a little isolated from you team and hugging an island, expect to be bombed into next week. DON'T be the player (and you see this often in divs where div mates spawn far apart from each other) sail in open water apart from team mates at the beginning of matches just so you can be with your buddy. Wait until after the enemy CV has planes up, so you can better estimate when it may be safer to move. BB's especially who do this and isolate themselves from their teams at the start of matches make for delicious XP snacks. DON'T use 'speed hacks' to dodge CV attacks unless you're in one of the boats that can speed back up quickly. Nothing makes a CV player smile more than a BB who just stopped to dodge most of a torp run, because now the 2nd (and 3rd) runs are almost guaranteed to hit. Altering speed if a great way to dodge incoming shells, but when a CV can get a 2nd or 3rd attack off in seconds, it's much less efficient, imo. DO take a few minutes to watch a video of all the different CV planes so you can see what their attack reticle looks like. For instance, Midway's attack planes have a football-shaped reticle. Knowing this, you can use this knowledge to turn your ship to give the CV the worst possible target angle. Turning broadside to the Midway attack planes gives it the worst possible hit angle. And in general, ANY type of turn is better than not turning at all. DO find positions that make it harder for a CV to damage you: If you're in a DD, hugging an island WHILE MOVING limits the attack vectors a CV has that are useful. A CV's reticle changes a lot when the planes have to go up and over any land masses, making you hard to hit if a CV has limited angles over open water to approach you. DO take up positions near friendly ships. Not stacked on top of each other maybe, but when your AA bubble overlaps one or more friendly ships, you are much less likely to be picked on by any competent CV player. Tactics: DON'T - turn on your AA if you are in a DD, unless you're in a gunboat DD with strong AA or concealment so bad you're visible from low earth orbit (Friesland, Groz, Khaba, etc). Nothing makes my life easier as a CV than finding a DD in open water with AA on. Saves me from wasting a fighter to spot for me while I swing around and hit you with my rockets. DON'T - smoke up, AND leave your AA on. I devstruck a Smolensk yesterday who decided to smoke up, stop, and left his AA on. I wasn't expecting to one-shot him, which I did, but it's not too hard to hit a smoked up target who has left their AA on. If you're in a Mino, maybe, but still not the smartest decision. DON'T - waste Damage Control on just one fire. This goes in general for any fire, but many CV's will try to bait you into using it by setting one with an attack plane, watching to see if you put it out, then following that up immediately with a torp or bomb run to stack fresh fires or floods you can't deal with. You'd be surprised how often this happens in randoms. DO - pay attention to where the CV's planes fly back to/come from on the minimap even if they aren't targeting you. If you've decided to CV hunt, returning attack planes/bombers take the most direct path back to the CV. I have seen WAY too many DD's, often IJN torp boats, blindly sail up map edges in hopes of finding the CV. It's not that hard, if you pay a little attention. Also, note that some CV players like to move up so their attacking flights get to targets quicker, so if you see a return flight drop from the map and at the same time a new attacking flight appear, that spot on the map is going to be very close to where the CV is sitting, giving more saavy players the option of ambushing it. DO - realize that the better CV players don't always intend to hit you with torpedoes when they drop them at you. Instead, they are hoping to force you to turn broadside to a bigger threat. It might be worth it to eat a few torps, if the alternative means showing broadside to one or more threatening enemies. Dodging a couple of puny Midway torps isn't worth it if it means showing broadside to one or more enemy BB's waiting to pounce. Just eat the small <10k damage and be thankful that Yammy sitting 15km away just didn't chew off 50k by citadeling your tender flank. DO - realize that unlike someone shooting guns at you every 30 seconds or less, it will usually take a good minute or two for a CV to get a second wave of planes over you. If you've been singled out, use this to your advantage and try to sail into a better position - near allies, islands/cover, or just some other direction. Don't make it easy on the CV by continuing to sail in a straight line from the moment you were last attacked. DO - realize the tier of your ship versus the tier of CV. Lower tiered ships mean easier pickings in general, so all the above applies double if you are bottom tier. Never sail without a friend. If the team lemmings a game, lemming with them. In closing, I think it's worth the time for everyone who wants to get better at the game to learn CV's, at least a little. I've seen several threads in the last few days with the usual 'CV's are OP, AA is useless, Def AA is useless' garbage. When I check those players, they are nearly always players with little/no time in any tier CV, or whose stats are so terrible as to wonder how they breathe without help. Some last things to keep in mind: CV's have a finite number of planes - all squadrons are not instantly full and ready at all times except for game start. It takes usually 1 minute or more to replenish a single plane. For this reason, you'll often find the CV player will dump one (or two) attack runs into the ocean, to protect his/her plane count, and plan on getting ONE solid attack on an enemy ship much of the time, maybe 2. Given that a typical 'good' attack run will land 10-20k damage on a target, and given that it takes a good 1-2 full minutes to get another attack flight to the target, the whining here needs to stop. A GK, Monty, Yammy, or Kremlin can throw an entire broadside at you every 30 seconds or less, with the capability of one-shotting much of what they face. From a pure 'realistic' DPS standpoint, most ships can and will out DPS any CV. CV's that are deplaned because of poor play are virtually useless other than for spots or caps. By sailing smart, knowing when/how to use your AA and when to sail with/away from your team, it's not hard to force a CV into throwing planes away at blobs of enemies, or not attacking at all. Either way, you win. CV's are only as effective as you let them be. Failing to follow common sense and most of what's listed above allow a lot of the monster games CVs can post from time to time. Play a CV - for at least 20 games, then come back and tell us how OP they are. Dog out!

The Asashio is my go-to ship when I just want to relax, have fun, and get away from grinding ships. I played 11 games last night, ALL of them in Asashio, half or more had CV's and I was ignored in all but one match. And FYI, if you're a map edge, max-range flanker in an Asashio you're doing it wrong. You should be abusing the conceal to spot for your team, contest caps, and plinking targets of opportunity with those guns. I use my Harugumo captain in it just for the tiny little bit of extra DPM you can pull in with the guns. I'm a strictly average player, but these are the kinds of results I get when I'm ignored by the enemy CV (ended the night with a 10.5 - 1 Kills/Death ratio):

22nd for me. Bad rng is bad.

I got 13 of them... 15k coal 100x Equal Speed Charlie London 100x Zulu 50x Restless Fire camo 15k coal 50x Restless Fire camo 100x Zulu 50x Wyvern 100x Victor Lima 15k coal 1500 steel 7 days premium 7 days premium

You can't open the forums on this game without seeing a number of 'NERF XYZ IT'S SOOOO OP OMG WG YOU SUCK!' posts.... honestly here's my take and also why I disregard 99% of these things: It normally happens after a match (or maybe a couple) where the OP was burned down/torped/devstruck one or more games by the 'OP' ship. The OP seldom, if ever, provides a replay to support their claim. It DOES occasionally happen where you get a team in randoms that will work together well enough to allow the 'OP' ships to reach a high level of performance. In this case, specifically I can only speak to the Kitakaze, not having yet ground through to the Harugumo: The Aki/Kitakaze (Gumo also I'm sure) is VERY dependent on friendly spotting/radar in order to reach anywhere near 'OP' levels of damage done. It has floaty shells when shooting anything > 10km so it's not a kiting boat like an RU DD can be. It has ONE slow as hell loading torp rack, weak conceal, poor speed and poor turning circle. If caught in the open, it's a sitting duck ready to be focused down provided you don't try to 1v1 yolo it in another DD. It's very easily beaten down, provided people are willing to shoot at it. Yes, it can do well in DD vs DD fights, but this is a TEAM game. I was able to win a gun battle against a Gumo last night in my Shima simply because ONE other ship on my team was also willing to lend supporting fire. There are plenty of ways to bully an Aki/Kita/Gumo out of their comfort zone. Torp/hydro them while they sit in their smoke, or God forbid PUSH them instead of sitting 10-14km away whining about it. (See also Friesland, because I've already seen teams last night with a sizable ship advantage on a cap refuse to push because one was pew-pewing non stop) This game is very much paper/rock/scissors in most respects, and there are usually multiple counters for every 'OP' ship. - Push it, kill what's assisting it, or learn the gun range and stay out of it until your team has an advantage or means to deal with it - be it numbers or hydro, or air support or whatever. I'll be the first to admit I get upset with 'OP' ships when I get nuked or burned into next week by one, but I find if I look back at the matches where this happens I usually find I was out of position, didn't have enough(or any) support, or played to the opposing team's strength. Now at the start of and during matches I try to stay map and team aware for where BOTH teams are and with what ships to minimize the odds of being caught in a situation where I can get focused down quickly. When I do that, the OP ships suddenly aren't nearly as hard to deal with.

I have to agree with the general consensus here, for most games 12km is the safest bet for consistent damage unless you are an elite DD player, then the 8km with or without TAE. I'm decidedly average, but still manage an average of over 60k damage per game in my Shima through 500 battles using the 12km torps 95% of of the time. 150-200k games are not uncommon. On occasion I'll div up for a 20km meme fest with other Shima players, but that's for lols, not for 'serious' playing. One other bit of advice - the Shima DOES have guns. Use them! No, you won't be mistaken for a Harugumo or a Khab, but they do enough to sink enemy DDs during those times when you get caught with torps on cooldown and have to duke it out, especially if they are half health or less and you are full health or nearly so.