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Aetreus

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  1. Catastrophic detonation was rarer on USN ships(though it still happened). But as a likely minimum, the turret itself would have been a loss if the shell penetrated, meaning extensive work and putting the ship out of action for several months to a year.
  2. She came dangerously close to not though. Took a low-obliquity hit to the No.3 barbette, was lucky enough that the shell scraped through the deck and lost its cap, would have penetrated if it didn't. Very real risk of a turret loss and potential for catastrophic explosion.
  3. SUBMARINES!

    As funny as it is, my bet is that for balancing purposes the USN and possibly VMF would receive their first-generation nuclear submarines, Skate and November, in order to compete with the AIP Walther, British HTP Explorers, and closed-cycle diesel submarines. There's so many prototypes in this category it is hard to see how things would work otherwise, as the USN never really investigated AIP given nuclear propulsion was already nearing production.
  4. SUBMARINES!

    Personally, the thing I find most fascinating about this whole thing is that WG decided to tell us at all, and not keep the testing strictly internal despite being terribly secretive about most things in the game. It's actually incredibly rare for companies to demo major mechanics changes to their consumer base, and usually for good reason. I think I shouldn't have to explain what that good reason is here in the thread, given that we're demonstrating it so well.
  5. I wouldn't really say that the fast battleship made the battlecruiser redundant. It made it less desireable, but the reason is more complicated than a simple design innovation of putting bigger engines in a battleship. Increases in the power of engines meant that a battleship could now be 26-30 knots on a reasonable amount of investment in power and length, and battlecruisers which invested more gained relatively little speed due to the nature of hydrodynamics. Deutschland is a truly weird ship, so I think it's actually fair to argue that she shouldn't be placed in direct comparison with any other class of ship. She's relatively slow for a ship of her generation, having essentially battleship speed, but is not built at the scale of a capital ship. "Small battleship" or "Pocket battleship" are actually kind of what she is, though it implies a ship with more power than Deutschland had.
  6. A battlecruiser is a capital ship(i.e. the ship is comparable in size to the largest warships of its generation) that is armed with large-caliber guns and is relatively fast. That's it. People get way too hung up on what is and isn't a battlecruiser. Generally battlecruisers were built to be able to intercept fast and powerful raiders- originally, this meant armored cruisers, eventually it became other battlecruisers and cruisers in general(light vs heavy is not really much of a distinction, as WoWS shows pretty well). The other role they filled was as a capital ship that could form the backbone of a fleet's scouting element. They were fast enough to range ahead of slower battleships and would overmatch and destroy smaller scouting ships. You might note that except arguably the USN and KM, no new-build battlecruisers were made after the WNT moratorium. In big part this was actually because of carriers, which by that time were clearly capable of executing the heavy scout role much better than any surface action ship could. Of course carriers would take the main combat role from battleships as well, but that wasn't as well established by the mid to late 30's.
  7. Because having 5 different threads on the same topic is hard to follow for anyone else, and pushes other topics off/down the front page.
  8. Compare Kongo to the other ships in her tier, it's pretty clear she's a battlecruiser. She has a bit less armor and significantly less firepower(most are 10-12 gun ships) while being much faster.
  9. SUBMARINES!

    Ehh, the XXI dash is 80 minutes long(21 nmi range), I-201 sprint time is about 50 minutes. They can go pretty far on battery charge. The main issue is that they would have to charge for several hours to do that again. Of course, closed-cycle submarines like the Walther boats don't ever have to charge, and can run fast for long distances much like a warship, even if it cuts their total range. Within the constraints of the game's 5:1 scaling for speed/time, it's reasonable to not have submarines deal with battery charge, given they probably won't spend all their time submerged anyways.
  10. SUBMARINES!

    I did a bit of digging, and I think that the Soviet submarine in the video is or is a derivative of M-401, a prototype for closed-cycle propulsion using liquid oxygen and lime to absorb C02 from exhaust gasses. Specs vary, I see up to 23 knots surfaced and 14.5 submerged. Hence the suspicion that this is not M-401 itself, but a close derivative. XXI was only capable of 17 knots submerged, not 27. There were the HTP driven Walther boats though, Type XVII(built) and XVIII(unfinished), which were capable of 24-25 knots. I doubt you would get anyone to willingly crew those today with HTP's reputation, but they existed. Again, there's a reasonable number of boats to fill out top tiers, and the USN has its GUPPY and later nuclear boats. The issue is that fast submarines were a brand new technology that only appeared in WWII, usually late(except for Japan, who have prewar No. 71), and in a small number of varieties. If as I suspect slow submerged speed boats are unviable, there isn't enough material to build a line below roughly Tier 8 out of.
  11. SUBMARINES!

    Ehh, there are submarines in timeframe that are capable of and to varying degrees intended to attack warships directly. Remember that WoWS currently has a timeframe that at minimum goes to about 1950, and in some cases through to nearly 1960. if you look at all the T10 ships, only a couple did or could have entered service before the end of WWII(USN and a couple of IJN). So most of the I-201 and Type XXI inspired conversions, along with HTP closed-cycle boats, are in timeframe. Even nuclear submarines are in timeframe, if barely. The issue is with most WWII and prewar submarines, only unusually fast ones are fast enough surfaced to be even questionably practical, and they're all terribly slow submerged. I think you can have a place in WoWS for novelty submarines at high tier, I don't think that you can make a line out of it.
  12. Trading firepower instead of armor for speed was fairly normal for German battlecruisers. Generally they had either a smaller number or smaller caliber of guns than the battleship of equivalent size and generation. Compare the Mackensen against Bayern, or Derrflinger versus Konig.
  13. SUBMARINES!

    Uhh, USS Wasp was sunk in the midst of her whole battlegroup. Not during a fleet action but the ship was at speed to launch aircraft, and this very easily could have been during one. Similarly Taiho was sunk by a USN submarine at speed during the Battle of the Philippine Sea. The idea that IJN submarines should have been used for commerce raiding is ridiculous. Commerce raiding of what, exactly? Ultimately the choice was between naval battlegroups and convoys, which as targets were not too different in terms of difficulty. The issue was in how the IJN submarines were commanded at the operational level, as can be pretty clearly seen by the fact that USN submarines had a great deal of effectiveness against IJN warships. This thesis is what I'm generally basing my opinion of the IJN submarine force off of.
  14. SUBMARINES!

    You know, you could bother to look at the video, and realize that the two identifiable ships are both very fast submarines that could make the low 20 knot surfaced and high teens submerged speeds? Type XVIII and Type XXI submarines were actually very fast. The unidentified Soviet type might be- my guess is that it is some sort of HTP test boat derived from the Walther boats. The determining issue is going to be how the two American boats perform. The Gato is reasonably fast surfaced, but I bet that it ends up with its 9 knots submerged speed ingame. If that doesn't work than the submarines are probably axed as there simply aren't too many "fast" boats within the timeframe. IJN boats could and did infiltrate naval battlegroups. They were extensively trained to do exactly that and it paid off. The issue is that most IJN submarines were not well-suited to it, and IJN submarine command generally tied them up in rigid patrol lines that made it impossible for them to try. Wasp and Yorktown were both sunk by IJN submarines that managed to infiltrate a battlegroup(we did it to Taiho in revenge, though).
  15. Battlecruisers ingamge are just battleships with high speed at the cost of armor or firepower. There's a number of ships that fit this description, some of which are historical battlecruisers and some of which aren't. Amagi, Hood, Kongo, are the usual examples, IIRC we're getting Mackensen. You could also argue that Scharnhorst/Gneisnau and Iowa are battlecruisers as well. Beyond that there's plenty of possibility for a line of battleships that would be historically classed as battlecruisers, USN/IJN/KM/RN all have the potential for a mostly full line of historical ships and designs.
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