otakuben

Sub's are......interesting. I do not think they are broken as they can be dealt with. Since they are not maneuverable once you are in close range they can't do a ton. Especially considering they can't out run most ships. They have their counters for the most part by every ship. I think BB's are hurt the worst by them? But then again nothing is perfect. They can prove a good foil to carriers as I found out a few times quite painfully. I'm not sure if they should instituted game wide yet, and if so with a cap much like CV's are. It can be annoying when there are three subs left and everyone else is playing bobbing for metal hotdogs. Otherwise it is a fun game mode and a surprising success imo. Though I'm sure there will be many who will come and tell me why I am wrong.

Also:

Dunkerque is good as long as you don't get cross fired in any way and cann keep your face towards the enemy. Scharnhorst is a cruiser killer and BB annoyer. So do you want to kill cruisers more or play the edges and tank shots off the front of your ship.

If you think Scharnhorst is bad, don't play Roma. Her guns are like Helen Keller drunk, on a rollercoaster, with a shotgun full of bird shot. And when you do hit it's like you shot a boat made of tissue paper.

Don't give WG ideas. They'll make some stupid Russian CV with these planes that dive under water and shoot torpedoes while going 150+ km/h. Why? Because Russian balance.

This was a weird one, not gonna lie. Wasn't expecting that to be the thing you wanted fixed.

So what you're saying is the Sinop's hips don't lie.

Apparently. But it sure doesn't help them deal more damage. Again it's like you need to factor in multiple items of data to get a better picture. If anything this tells me DD's are underpowered and need better damage output to be considered in line with other classes. They would be considered spotting ships but any a game with a CV regulates them to a secondary role in spotting.

It's like if you live longer the better chance you have to kill ships. Also notice that while K/D ratio may be higher, actually damage is dead middle of CA and BB. It's like certain statistics by themselves don't show a proper representation of the issues. AMAZING! Also Toss I will have to look through that data and get back to you. I don't currently have the time to pick through it all, especially since it doesn't allow you to filter.

Again someone who doesn't read my actual previous posts because of their preconceived notions. I really don't want to do just a single 1v1. I'd like a comprehensive look across multiple DD's and CV's in multiple situations, with teams and no teams. There's a lot to be factored in. But you know what would help your argument best, raw data. Statistics that show CV's are dominating the game in W/R, Damage, kills, etc. All of this would show how oppressive they really are. Or you can show a video of you demolishing a DD in your Enterprise, cause that has the same weight obviously.

Are you willing to have a test or no?

Actually your stats show you are far better than average and even better in CV's and Cruisers.

Interesting thing about 1 turn win decks, they are only as good as the player who understands the deck and can use it as effectively as possible. Just because the deck can do it doesn't mean the person piloting it knows how to make it work.

Now your talking about skill floor. Different counterplays and strategies vary in their skill floor. Some are easy to use and simple to use effectively. Others in the right hands become more effective. Also I'm willing to do it with the understanding we do the test as far as the parameters we agree on. I've already acknowledge that in a 1v1 with him in a CV he will stomp me.

Okay so we agree on this then. There needs to be counterplay to combat people who are above average. This has always been my stance as well. I have never assumed the current available counterplay works against good or better players. However saying there's no counterplay whatsoever is disengenuous and doesn't fully encapsulate the actual problem with both classes. My argument isn't strawman, it's actually has nuance beyond a blanket statement that in no way gets to the heart of the problem. But even in your quote you point out a fallacy in your argument. You agree you can outplay bad or average but in the quote in your post you state "There is nearly nothing a player at a high level can do against another CV player"