otakuben

Warning: This is not the most efficient, or recommended way to upgrade a commander. So I was going through some of my ships, rearranging commanders, and getting rid of new inexperienced ones when I noticed something. If you dismiss a Commander with skill points it gives you the option to gain part of his already used XP back for either doubloons, credits, or not at all. If you use doubloons you get 100% of it back, if you use credits you get 25% of it back. Okay cool, no big deal. I then noticed that you can train a commander to 6 skill points for 900,000 credits. Then I wondered what was to stop someone from getting a 6 point commander for 900,000 credits then dismissing it for 92,500 credits and getting 9,250 elite commander XP. Apparently nothing. Then I wondered again; what was the ratio and how did it compare to something like paying for doubloons to convert XP. Here is that ratio: (1 doubloon converts to 1,500 credits) Through doubloons: 1 experience point costs the equivalent of 42 credits Through Captain dismissing: 1 experience point costs 107 credits So doubloons are about 2.5 times more efficient. The difference is that you don't have to pay actual money to do that with captain dismissal. You can technically do nothing but recruit and dismiss 6 point commanders for elite XP and skill up a Captain without ever playing that captain in whatever respective ship they are in. Just found it interesting.

Great design. Adding that to my original post. Monstrosity is an understatement. Not even sure what tier you would put that. 5? 6? Sorry I haven't updated, been busy but I swear I'll have more info with a more fleshed out tech tree with modules once I get some time.

I love the transition from tier 3 to tier 8 in design. You can just see it progress so naturally. With a tier 9 and 10 design I think it would be even better. I'm going to slowly post full stats for each tier with everything possible including modules and more to fully flesh out the battleship tech tree.

Well this thread is over a year old. I resurrected it to affirm whether or not it was my idea they implemented.

I'll put that in the main post. Thanks for that!

Good point with that. I think the US skip bombing was much more universal in capability but still somewhat limited.

Lol you aren't wrong. I'm just pleased as punch they implemented one of my ideas. I also claim to have been the original suggestion to the Kamikaze (though the threads are so old they got deleted).

I have become death, destroyer of pixel ships.

So wait.....do I get credit for this being implemented in game?

So I reviewed it a little more and right now I think I'm going to avoid using this. While I love the lulz of the design I feel the 240mm secondary's may be too much for WG to be okay with. The largest secondary's currently in the game is the 152mm in the Italian BB line. 240mm would be a great deal larger. I adjusted some of the state but ultimately agree that it would need to be nerfed in order to make it tier 4. While it would be nice to have some more ships from other nations, or even just Chile, there isn't a lot to go with. This is probably the best we can get considering the available designs. What is that and where can I get that? Also call out to @COLDOWN for basically being the main reason I even did this. I consider my attempt a poor example of what him and the others who helped me probably could do and I believe are being polite about my substandard idea over all. I updated the information to reflect the information provided to correct my errors.

Actually the scuttling still didn't sink the Bismark and after the ship still remained afloat (albeit listing very heavily) it was 6 torpedoes that finally forced her under water fully.

Things that sunk the Bismark - 6 torpedoes Things that didn't sink the Bismark- 700/16in battleship shell's

I'll replace the T7 premium with that then. Especially for the potential citadel lulz. SAP would be an interesting gimmick but I agree it would make them ridiculously powerful at short range. I had considered a speed boost being the gimmick for the line.

Thanks and I'll fix those when I get a chance (at work atm). It sucks there weren't more designs past Gonzalez's but it's understandable why. Also awesome about La Argentina Cruiser Guns. I'll look to go into more detail later for each ship in terms of in-game stats.

So after some discussion in my original thread I went back and rethought my evaluation of the Pan-American Battleship line and changed a fair amount of ships. On top of that I added 3 Premium ships. As I list every ship I will endeavor to add a picture as well as a brief description of the ship (if there is one to give). Pan-American Battleship Line For those who don't know, over the course of almost 20 years there was a strong arms race between the countries of Brazil, Argentina, and Chile. The initial race had existed back into the 1800's but it kicked into full gear when Brazil ordered the building of a Dreadnought Battleship in 1905. While there would be many ship designs pitched to the nations over the course of the arms race, only a few would be ultimately built and the others remained firmly on paper. Tier's 3-5 are actually built ships for the three nations. Tier's 6-8 are paper ships with actual designs that never made it past the design process for various reasons. Tier's 9-10 are conceptual ships. Basically tested aspects of different design concepts put together to form a single ship. Most of what prevented these later ships from being built was budget. Due to issues both at home and abroad, the South American countries realized that they could not continue to produce the ships they want because of financial issues. These financial problems would be exacerbated to the point that even the ships that were built would fall into different levels of disrepair over the course of their service history. Tier 3 - Minas Geraes (Brazil) The Minas Geraes was laid down in 1907 after three pre-dreadnought designs that were in their early building stages were demolished in favor of the modern Minas Geraes. The ship would be given the honors of the being a modern Dreadnought built before any were built by France, Germany, Russia, Japan, and Italy. Geraes would see service in World War 2 but could not actively serve as her age was too old to be able to clash against more modern Battleships of the time. She would be decommissioned shortly after the end of the second world war and then sold for scrap to an Italian company who towed it to Genoa. Her twin, Sao Paulo, would also be sold for scrap but would be lost at sea before ever making her final destination. Hitpoints: 35800 Armament Main: 305mm/45 cal - 6x2 (Range - 12.5km) Secondary: 120mm/50 cal - 22x1 Secondary/AA: 47mm - 8x1 Armor Belt Main: 229mm Belt Extended: 152mm Casemate: 230mm Turrets: 305mm Tower: 300mm Maneuverability Speed: 21 knots Turning Circle: 550m Rudder Shift Time: 15 sec Tier 4 - Rivadavia (Argentina) The Rivadavia was Argentina's first serious response to the creation of Brazil's Dreadnought. Argentina took multiple bid's in 1908 for both Dreadnoughts and Destroyers as a way to try and match Brazil before they became the power in the waters of South America. After multiple bids Argentina threw out all of the offers and instead took a offer in 1910 by the US for the battleship Rivadavia after the US dropped the price of the Dreadnought by $500,000. They also contracted for two more making it 3 dreadnoughts in total. However they would change that to 2 dreadnoughts after Brazil decided to sell it's third dreadnought. Two dreadnoughts of the class would be made in total but after their launch and initial trials would be fraught with set backs and delays. Eventually, after the ships were repaired, they mostly sat inactive due to Argentina's neutrality. Eventually both Rivadavia class Battleships would be sold for scrap. One to Italy the other to Britain. Hitpoints: 46400 Armament Main: 305mm/50 cal - 6x2 (Range - 14.2km) Secondary: 152mm/50 cal - 12x1; 102mm/50cal - 16x1 Secondary/AA: 76mm - 4x1 Armor Belt Main: 300mm Belt Extended: 250mm Deck: 114mm Deck Extended: 96mm Casemate: 238mm Turrets: 305mm Tower: 300mm Maneuverability Speed: 23 knots Turning Circle: 620m Rudder Shift Time: 16.3 sec Tier 5 - Almirante Latorre (Chile) The Almirante Latorre can almost be considered the peak of South American actual built Battleships. With the biggest guns on any South American Battleship it would have been the most advanced ship of any of the 3 South American countries participating in the Arms race. However before it could be finished the Royal Navy bought the ship and renamed is the HMS Canada. It served in the British fleet during the Great war and saw action in Jutland. However not long after the war ended the Chilean government bought the HMA Canada and renamed it the Almirante Latorre. It became the flagship of the Chilean Navy and served as the Presidential Transport until the crew on the ship Mutinied and took most of the Chilean Naval Fleet with them. However the rebellion quickly fell apart and all ships returned to the Chilean Government. Shortly after the start of the Great Depression the ship was put into reserve to save money but remained in good enough condition to be considered for purchase by the US government after Pearl Harbor. The Chilean government refused their offer and instead used the ship for Neutrality Patrols until the end of the Second World War. The ship would eventually meet it's fate in 1951 after an accident in the engine room killed 3 crew members. The ship would then be moored and used as a storage hulk for fuel oil until it was decommissioned and sold for scrap in 1959. Hitpoints: 48200 Armament Main: 355mm/45 cal - 5x2 (Range - 15.8) Secondary: 152mm/50 cal - 16x1 Secondary/AA: 76mm - 6x1 Armor Belt Main: 230mm Belt Extended: 100mm Deck: 102mm Deck Extended: 25mm Turrets: 250mm Tower: 280mm Maneuverability Speed: 23 knots Turning Circle: 590m Rudder Shift Time: 16 sec Tier 6 - Riachuelo (Brazil) The Riachuelo was Brazil's final attempt at designing a modern dreadnought with firepower to surpass Argentina and Chile. The ship underwent multiple designs with dozen's of layout's. The main guns would have ranged from 12 inches to 16 inches depending on the need. The government decided on a ship that somewhat resembled the Queen Elizabeth Class of dreadnoughts with sturdy armor and 15 inch naval guns. She unfortunately would never see reality as the government decided they could not afford the cost of building her and cancelled all chances of production. Hitpoints: 52400 Armament Main: 381mm/42 cal - 4x2 (Range - 17km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 14x1; 100mm/50 - 10x1 Secondary/AA: 76mm - 6x1; 40mm - 4x4 AA: 12mm - 2x4 Armor Belt Main: 330mm Belt Extended: 152mm-100mm Deck: 152mm Deck Extended - 76mm Turrets: 350mm Tower: 330mm Maneuverability Speed: 22.5 knots Turning Circle: 650m Rudder Shift Time: 17.9 sec Tier 7 - Design 784 (Brazil) A variation of the Riachuelo design with 10/15 inch guns instead of the 8. The ship would be slightly better armored and even a little faster but much larger. The overall cost of this design was much greater than the government ever wanted to pay. Hitpoints: 59100 Armament Main: 381mm/42 cal - 5x2 (Range - 18.4km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 14x1; 10mm/50 - 10x1 Secondary/AA: 76mm - 3x1; 40mm - 6x4 AA: 12mm - 4x4 Armor Belt Main: 340mm Belt Extended: 220mm Deck: 127mm Deck extended: 76mm Turrets: 350mm Tower: 330mm Maneuverability Speed: 24 knots Turning Circle: 690m Rudder Shift Time: 19.7 sec Tier 8 - Saavedra (Argentina) This would be Argentina's last full design attempt at a modern Dreadnought. This however would cross over into Modern battleship territory. A Captain by the name of Gonzalez would take upon him the task of coming up with a modern fast battleship design that would put Argentina on part with other navies of the time. While coming up with his design he looked at different battleships from across the modern world to gauge where he wanted to fall with his design. He ultimately came to the decision that he preferred 15 inch guns in more turrets but with a favorable speed and decent anti-air. His design would be very reminiscent of the Italian Littorio class of battleships. While his design would look very similar it was a bit shorter with the secondary layout slightly different compared to the Italian Littorio's. The ship would never come to fruition as the government was facing financial crisis like many of the other South American countries at that time. However it's design would be the epitome of Argentinian engineering and power. An excerpt provided by @BrunoSchezer concerning the layout difference in the two pictures. "In 1941, the government of Argentina released a law to acquire the funds to purchase new naval units to put at service of the ARA (Armada de la República Argentina). One part of the funds was to be used in the construction of a new battleship class to serve alongside the old Rivadavia-class battleships, Rivadavia and Moreno. One Commander from the navy called Osvaldo J. González, in 1943, proposed the characteristics the new battleship class needed in that time to serve in the Argentine Navy. He proposed a battleship based on the Italian Littorio-class battleships. She would need to carry nine main guns of 381mm on a 3x3 setup, a secondary armament of 12 pieces of 152mm in a 2x6 setup, an anti-aircraft system of 12x89mm in dual mounts, 16 of 37mm in quad mounts and 16 of 12.7mm in quad mounts. All of this in a hull of 238 meters x 31 meters, with an armor belt of 356mm and a deck of 200mm (150mm+50mm), while the armor of the main turrets was to be 381mm. The propulsion should be enough to be capable of navigate at a speed of 30 knots and carry a central hangar alongside two catapults to launch three aircrafts, with a standard displacement of 37000 tons. She most likely was planned to be built in an Italian shipyard, like the heavy cruisers of the Veinticinco de Mayo-class was built in Livorno by OTO, but due to the current war at that time in Europe and the consequent cancelation of the plan, she was not built." Hitpoints: 64500 Armament Main: 381mm/45 cal - 3x3 (Range - 19.2km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 6x2 Secondary/AA: 89mm/50 - 6x2 AA: 37mm - 4x4; 16mm - 4x4 Armor Belt Main: 356mm Deck: 200mm Turrets: 350mm Tower: 381mm Maneuverability Speed: 30 knots Turning Circle: 820m Rudder Shift Time: 21 sec Tier 9 - Miguel de Guemes (Argentina) This is where we get into conceptual aspects of South American battleship design. When Gonzales was working on his design he tested multiple calibers of guns. Amongst them was 16 inches. While he liked the power of the guns themselves he favored the 15 inch because of less wear and faster reload. However were those not a factor in his decision this would be the natural progression of the ships. This is essentially increasing the size of the Saavedra to accommodate 9/16in guns with increased armor protection. Along with that increase would also be a increase in the medium and small secondary's as well as a slight loss in speed. This would be very reminiscent of the Italian Marco Polo. Hitpoints: 71200 Armament Main: 406mm/45 - 3x3 (Range - 21km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 4x3 Secondary/AA: 89mm/50 - 8x2 AA: 37mm - 6x4; 16mm - 8x4 Armor Belt main: 381mm Deck: 200mm Turrets: 381mm Tower: 381mm Maneuverability Speed: 28.5 knots Turning Circle: 910m Rudder Shift Time: 24 sec Tier 10 - Bartolome Mitre (Argentina) This is the last of the conceptual ships. The Argentine navy needed some primary things from a ship. It had to be fast, with a strong broadside, more than 2 turrets, and well armored. This would be that concept without restrictions. An amalgamation of all individually tested ideas put together into one large battleship. With 8/16in guns on the bow in two quadruple turrets and 4/16in guns in a single quadruple turret on the aft you get a fairly armored beast of a battleship. It's defining feature being a 35 km top speed (what they originally wanted) but a lower than average hit point pool as the ship needed to be lighter to accommodate such speeds. The Armor is also slightly lower than average for it's tier making it a little more fragile compared to other ships of the tier. Hitpoints: 88500 Armament Main: 406m/45 - 3x4 (Range - 22.6km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 4x3 Secondary/AA: 89mm/50 - 12x2 AA: 37mm - 10x4; 16mm - 16x4 Armor Belt Main: 406mm Deck: 200mm Turret: 406mm Tower: 406mm Maneuverability Speed: 35 knots Turning Circle: 1200m Rudder Shift Time: 21 sec Premium Ships Now for the premium ships I have 3 to offer. 1 of them is an actual built ship, the second is a paper design, the third is a considered alternative to a paper design. Tier 5 Premium - Rio do Janero (Brazil) This may be a more controversial choice as the ship barely sailed under the Brazilian flag. However the original ship was ordered by the Brazilian government and was to be sailed by them until the collapse of Brazil's rubber industry. Instead the ship would be bought by the Ottoman empire and then the British empire until it's scrapping in 1922. However she would see action in Jutland before being scrapped to adhere to the Washington Naval Treaty. Hit points: 47900 Armament Main: 305mm/50 cal - 7x2 (Range - 15 km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 20x1 Secondary/AA: 76mm - 10x1 Armor Belt Main: 229mm Deck: 64mm Deck Extended: 25mm Turret: 305mm Tower: 305mm Maneuverability Speed: 22 knots Turning Circle: 630m Rudder Shift Time: 15.8 sec Tier 7 Premium - Design 685A (Brazil) Another take on the Riachuelo design, this one featuring a large broadside of 10/16in guns. The ship would have presented a formidable broadside for the time period as well as against the nations it was meant to compete with. However like design 784 it just wasn't meant to be. The lighter armor did make it faster compared to other dreadnoughts but also more vulnerable to other ships. Hit points: 57700 Armament Main: 406mm/45 cal - 5x2 (Range - 18.5km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 14x1 Secondary/AA: 76mm - 4x1 AA: 37mm - 4x4, 16mm - 4x4 Armor Belt Main: 303mm Belt Extended: 152mm Deck: 152mm Turret: 330mm Tower: 330mm Maneuverability Speed: 24 knots Turning Circle: 720m Rudder Shift Time: 18.9 sec Tier 8 Premium - Torcuato de Alvear (Argentina) The Riachuelo had multiple ideas on layout in terms of main battery. One of the concepts that was rejected by Gonzales was 8/16in guns in 2 quad turrets. He did not favor the layout of ships like the Nelson. So the most likely layout of the ship would have been one turret at the bow and one turret at the aft. While the overall weight would have been less than the 9/15in guns in 3 triple turrets Gonzales did not like having so many of the main guns contained in only 2 turret compared to three. However this ship is that take on the concept which would have lightened the ship by 5000 tonnes helping increased it's overall speed. Hit Points: 61000 Armament Main: 406mm/45 cal - 2x4 (Range - 20km) Secondary: 152mm/50 - 6x2 Secondary/AA: 89mm/50 - 6x2 AA: 37mm - 2x8; 16mm - 2x8 Armor Belt Main: 356mm Deck: 200mm Turrets: 350mm Tower: 381mm Maneuverability Speed: 32 knots Turning Circle: 850m Rudder Shift Time: 22 sec Conclusion So that is my resubmission of the tree with greater thought put into the designs and progression. I apologize for the original submission which did not take many things into account that I should have. I hope you like it and of course I will happily discuss any aspect of it and am open to any criticism. Thanks to @BrunoSchezer, @Talleyrand, and @Fr05ty for getting me going in the right direction. Of course this list is up for change and Bruno may be helping me with a visual design on the very last tier of the ship.