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About Norsehound

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  1. Norsehound

    British subs in closed testing

    Well yeah, they're an underrepresented element of the game. I know I want more of them, I'm still sad they're not on the proper research trees yet. As far as I can tell they don't need to be in testing anymore.
  2. Norsehound

    British subs in closed testing

    I've seen my share of playtesting in different mediums and ways. If it means write-ups of session reports, attending special sessions, etc I'm up for it. What I really want to do is scrutinize the hell out of these things, try to find the ways they work and can be broken, and report on it. This is likely what will happen... though I do have burning curiosity about the IJN and Russian subs now up on closed testing. I want to play them and figure out how they work for myself. I'm curious especially about how to play the IJN sub best because it's seems more like a submerging destroyer than anything close to the GER/US subs we have now.
  3. Norsehound

    British subs in closed testing

    Saw these posted on the development blog and I haven't been more envious of the closed testers getting MORE submarines to play with. https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/368 Their big thing seems to be massed homing torps, some surface gun additions, and longer submergence times. I don't know about anyone else but im hardly using the homing torps in my t8-t10 games because they're too much of a giveaway. I use them only against DDs and enemy subs when I need that maneuverability. They could be interesting to camp locations and/or fire torpedo streams at enemy ships to try forcing them to dodge? In spite of what the detractors say Homing torps are kind of disappointing. I need to find a way into cbt so I can run these. Really want to learn and break them in.
  4. Norsehound

    Ban Subs

    Ie "Stop refuting my outrageous claim because I want my submarine hate to go unchallenged." You're posting in a public forum, I'm just as free to respond as you're free to post this rant to this forum. Honestly the only reason I'm bothering with this thread is because I'm really tired of these calls to ban submarines from players who are widely exaggerating their capabilities... or for no reason at all. But To be fair to you I decided to re-read your post. Before that: I've been playing submarines almost exclusively since the rental periods opened for them. I'm pretty sure the only subs that can max 5m are the Tier 10 ones. A Tier 8 Salmon caps out around 3.5 minutes, while the U-190 sits at 4. This claim that Tier 10 subs are double tier 8s (for a total of 10 minutes!?) is farcical and only suggests your opposition to submarines is based in exaggeration. Now, looking into your recount, I don't see how these submarines' behavior is unfair or game breaking. It seems the same as complaining about carriers because their fighters can strike anywhere on the map, and calling for them to be banned from the game because of it. Being pushed out of position by hard-to-spot enemies isn't anything new- we've been living with it since the beginning with high-stealth IJN destroyers torping from the edge of the map. Submarines can move this possibility now into the center of the map, but just because it pushed you off-position doesn't mean the entire class needs to be clapped down. It's something to adapt to, in the same way a game can shift with the presence of a carrier's aircraft to spot the enemy team or not. In my experience submarines are going to force shifts in strategy but not to unrealistic extremes. One of the best ways to stop subs is, honestly? group together. a Persistent DD or three cruisers/Battleships spamming the DC buttons will make quick work of submarines if they land anywhere near them. Do you want to know what's really unfair? Submarine countermeasures from capital ships don't seem require line of sight to their targets. Merely spotting a submarine allows any teammates in range to crowd the water with explosives and destroy them from wherever they are. Subs meanwhile can't even fire over hills- something every sub critic seems to forget. I'll grant as a carrier you don't have a lot of countermeasures against subs- probably to offset how effective you are against every other ship beyond LOS. You're supposed to spot submarines and let your teammates deal with them. Harassing subs with air patrols to cover them and force them to surface will allow the rest of your team to make short work of them with their guns. Subs cannot stand up to 1-2 cannon barrages- they're the most fragile craft in the game. This does mean your team needs to be working together against them, though.
  5. Norsehound

    Ban Subs

    Honestly I skimmed reading after your claim the subs stayed submerged all the way to your cap. Not only do I doubt they could do this (most subs are a lot slower underwater), but it's a really stupid idea to have your battery depleted when you're next to an enemy. Any ships' secondaries will make short work of a submarine, even a carrier's. They are not wonder ships. They are the highest risk, highest reward vessel in the game now. Destroyers are much more flexible and forgiving than Submarines, which are very much a one trick pony. Like... As a carrier, one of your easiest counters is running away. Carriers are faster than submerged subs, and if they surface to chase you, then nail them with your planes. Like any other class you face, you develop counters to respond to them when they show up. The greatest power a submarine has is being unseen. The moment they are detected, a submarine's job gets twice as hard.
  6. Norsehound

    How can we get the I-56 and S-189?

    I saw these two mentioned on a recent development blog and actually ran into the I-56 in a random match. I was wondering how someone might get them to try? They don't seem connected to any combat missions.
  7. Norsehound

    So you submariners feel like you really affect the game much?

    I already like playing stealth torpedo destroyers, Submarines are an extension of that game style. I like being stealthy opportunistic strikers. I just wish they weren't being adjusted to be so tight on things... I'm still trying to figure out the strategy behind staying underwater and striking. I'm paranoid about my air now because I can't chase targets too far before being forced to retreat to safety to recover. I'd like to be a lone striker, but the limitation on air sort of suggests staying close to the fleet for cover. Going it alone, one bad run-in with a destroyer and you're done for. They're delightfully challenging, and I enjoy what I get out of them far more than any of the other mains.
  8. Norsehound

    Subs are now quite underwhelming? Don’t you think?

    I find subs still workable, I just wish the battery time could be increased a little more to let subs get into the thick of it and escape. 5 minutes is good, 3 minutes is tight. More battery time means I'd be more likely to pull on other perks. Subs aren't impossible to play; they're challenging and VERY unforgiving of mistakes.
  9. Norsehound

    Stay with the group or go lone wolf as a sub?

    When I set out nowadays I try to make sure something is around to gun down any destroyers I might run into. Not doing so means I'm taking a risk and should be ready to bail. Usually sides are mirrored, so I'll assume if I travel forward I'm going to run into an enemy submarine or any other ship classes I'm deployed beside. I also try to pay attention to where the destroyers are. If they're far away I feel safer going alone. When entering a cap I try to use it as an indicator if enemy ships are close. If contested I'll go to periscope depth to find out who I'm opposing, then get ready to crash dive if I can't handle them. If I can I'll ping them then switch to homing torps.
  10. Norsehound

    Submarine Ideas

    I'd like to see Italian subs on top of the expected IJN boats. For some reason I imagine the Italian perk would be fast battery recharge on the surface. A premium I might actually spend money for would be the Tang class, essentially the American copy of the type XXI. I don't see the submarine (gun armed) cruisers working well with the game now. Secondaries already tear subs apart, the Surcouf would lose in a gun battle against a proper DD.
  11. Norsehound

    Will Subs Move to Randoms?

    The only time I've felt like I've been in a no-win situation is when I'm a RTS CV without any planes left. There is literally nothing left to do, except... try to capture? Hope to lure an enemy ship into range with your pathetic secondaries? I've challenged overconfident DDs with a BB and come out on top. Against a submarine any ship has relevant counter play... starting with simply outrunning them. If your team has more caps then they do and a Submarine underwater is trying to chase you... simply run away. They're incredibly slow while they're submerged immune to bullets, so if they want to catch you they need to surface, becoming vulnerable to your HE guns. I tried chasing a CV like this in a submarine, staying underwater to avoid the wrath of their squadrons, and couldn't keep up. Lost the match. The other way to counter them is that, in order to actually score in the game, they must surface and become vulnerable. So capturing a base or a capture point means the submarine must expose itself to surface gunfire. In a hotly contested cap it will be a challenge between the capturing surface vessel and a sub that cannot surface, for it will instantly die. Porpoising is but one tool in the Submariner's box... but it's their only close-range tactic and it's easy to mess up if the chasing vessel is sitting on the steering wheel. Don't forget that subs have to content with the thicket of other vessels- or the BB has to be willing to charge forward with no protection to get into submarine range. Additionally, sub torps are not as point-and-click on citadel delivery as you would think. You can make the case here that the pressure is not as tough on DDs as you would think with friendly subs helping them kill enemy subs. I know when I drive subs, my priority goes to hunting enemy subs first before turning my attention to slow-moving target boats. It's the same if I was in a DD- hunting other DDs to eliminate the harder, more flexible target ships to make it easier on my friendly surface vessels. I'm dubious the bobbing trick works on subs for anything other than engaging lone targets. Doing this against multiple enemies means the sub will be spotted, and the sub may take out one ship before the teammates crush it (remember, CLs have DCs too, in addition to DDs). Bottom line is I don't feel the situation is impossible for ships against subs as they are now. Could live play reveal some glaring flaws? Possibly, but not to the point where it's impossible for tweaks to be introduced for fixes. Immediately I can think of a fix for the bobbing exploit: torpedoes have a cool down of longer than a moment when you surface and submerge. If you want surface-running torps that are guaranteed to hit you need to be above the water long enough for guns to hit you before you can fire torps. Otherwise, you need to learn how to use the ping. But, this would come about if it's a repeated exploit problem used by all submariners. My guess is that the bobbing is not as effective as you'd think it would be, and too often the trick turns back on the submarine attempting it.
  12. Norsehound

    Will Subs Move to Randoms?

    It is possible to say one thing to the community and have a different story behind closed doors. WG is not obligated to share their true intentions with the game to the players. Like I said, it's a guess.
  13. Norsehound

    Will Subs Move to Randoms?

    Nah, we'll see the Seaview long before SeaQuest ;) Not as silly, but a part of me is really really hoping to see the Penguin's submarine from the 1966 Batman movie as an optional skin for one of the American subs. It's about as ridiculous as some of the other skins already in the game.
  14. Norsehound

    Will Subs Move to Randoms?

    I'll dare to guess that submarines have always been a part of the game concept, but implementing them was a feature kicked down the road in favor of getting the other four classes up and running with some content. Since WG didn't want to make assurances that such a thing would be possible, they floated the idea that they wouldn't be doing them until they set out to try making them work. The Halloween, and current version, submarines are workable as game units. It's tweaking and finesse to make them more satisfactory to play that is the challenge. Honestly? I feel Subs are ready to ship. I was in favor of tweaking the sonar mechanic myself but I think I'm getting the hang of it... and it's part of the ship's skill floor for using properly. An analogy to past WoWs is knowing when and how to expend your planes in the RTS version of carriers. I could never figure it out, I'd always be de-planed by the end of the match so I'd never use CVs. Subs, if sonar is too frustrating for players, they won't use. The notion of every ship being able to counter every other ship in some way is a laudable idea, but I point out that surface ships can't counter carriers until they are in gun range of the CV, while CVs can hit everyone without risk to the CV itself. Sure, AA keeps CV planes away, but determined CVs can sink lone ships just as easily as Submarines can- if not easier because they have area-effect weapons vs the 2 torpedoes a Submarine has to rely on for about 30 seconds. For all of the hulabaloo and fury Submarines are causing in this community I don't see random matches changing dramatically with their inclusion. It means fewer DDs and more submarines dropping torpedoes out of stealth. By the time Submarines really make their presence felt (like say, a Sub Vs BB contesting a cap) the match is already mostly over. I wonder if there's too much fixation on the hypothetical, and prematurely declaring submarines dead for reasons other than their performance.
  15. I dunno... if torps are still the way they were in the public tests, those homing torpedoes kinda suck. More than once I've overshot a battleship and didn't realize it until much later. Getting the homing torps to work is as much an act of faith as anything else, because you have no aim assistance in trying to make the homing component work. The best strikes, IMO, are against inattentive opponents. The closest analogy I can think of to other mechanics in the game is dodging large torp spreads from IJN Destroyers at a long distance (Which are similarly invisible). Difference is instead of a fanned pattern you need to snake through, it's a close pair that you need to try to dodge. Homing torps, at least in the public test, do not turn well and of the three sub types you're at most dealing with 2 pairs of 4. If Subs went live, the next adjustment I see to bring down their power are spotter planes for BBs- to spot DD and Sub torpedoes from a distance to let BBs dodge, or ASW options for carriers so they can be the ASW for ships that don't have ASW capabilities. After all, they serve that stopgap roll for the other classes when something is missing (like being scouts, or countering destroyers with rocket planes). Both options take the pressure off of Destroyers and CLs as counters as well. If I were to guess I'd think that's the next move for WG if subs are perceived to be a problem (after implementing easier stat tweaks, of course). In some ways I really don't see subs changing things dramatically from the way the game is played now, actually, if you mentally swap a submarine for some kind of IJN Destroyer that spends most of the time hidden. Invulnerable at depth as they are, Subs trade away: team-benefiting smoke, fire-support guns, and area-denial torpedo spreads. Sure, you can't hit them with your battleship guns... but they have far less capability than a Destroyer does. You pick up a Sub over a Destroyer if you're a fan of the class, not because they are inherently better. I pick a sub over a DD because I'm willing to trade away guns and speed and smoke for tense stealth play that is more high-risk-high-reward. Plenty of times I've tried to take cap only for the brawl to go badly and get dumped on in the first five minutes. While Subs are stealthy, they also can't escape very fast.