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Comments on Prinz Eugen from NA Publishing Team


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Judge_Doom #121 Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:02 AM

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View PostSourNote666, on 07 February 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

 

yeah then why is Tirpitz still on sale?

 

often wonder that myself, seems they would have stopped selling it a long time ago if it was the case of not wanting a ship that was sorta OP and not flooding the game with them.  Must be to much of a viable money maker for them to stop selling it.

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Seadog_Supreme #122 Posted 07 February 2017 - 05:32 PM

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You get a Tier 8 German cruiser without the grind and as they said, with Premium ship benefits. I don't want WoWS to be pay-to-win. Prinz Eugen has a little better win rate than Hipper, what more do you want? I would consider buying it at some point for the Premium Ships benefits even though I have Hipper. Yes, it's pricey, but Star Citizen ships sell for up to $300. I know people who play a lot and have never spent a dime on this game. Let the company make some bucks.

Lance53 #123 Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:52 AM

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View PostSeadog_Supreme, on 07 February 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

You get a Tier 8 German cruiser without the grind and as they said, with Premium ship benefits. I don't want WoWS to be pay-to-win. Prinz Eugen has a little better win rate than Hipper, what more do you want? I would consider buying it at some point for the Premium Ships benefits even though I have Hipper. Yes, it's pricey, but Star Citizen ships sell for up to $300. I know people who play a lot and have never spent a dime on this game. Let the company make some bucks.

 

 

The stats for Hipper and Prinz Eugen are virtually identical, as one would expect.   It is thus an exaggeration for anyone to claim that Eugen has any real advantage.

 

Face it:  The Eugen offers very little.   One can grind to the Hipper and then buy the premium camo package for it, for only $14.79, a small fraction of the cost of the Eugen.   And you will then get most of the benefits of having a premium ship.

But more than anything else, the Eugen is easily the worst value for your money in a Tier 8 Premium.   Both the Atago, and especially the Mikhail Kutuzov, are way outperforming it at Tier 8.  Why would anyone want to spend so much money for such an underperforming ship?

The Eugen has thus clearly been overpriced for what you get.  Server stats back up the fact that Atago and Kutuzov are superior ships.

 

If Wargamming wants to continue to sell the Eugen in the future, then they really should lower the price oft the ship.

 

 



Roadrider7021 #124 Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:19 PM

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    I... wouldn't buy the PE again due to price and similarities with Hipper. But... for whatever reason, the Hipper is one of my favorite cruisers in the game (not due to win rate) and the PE offers the chance to play the ship and earn serious silver as well as train skippers quickly.  And the captain skill reshuffle really seems to favor this ship as well.

AVR_Project #125 Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:34 PM

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I have the Hipper and Prinz Eugan.  The Prinz Eugan was a favorite Revell model of mine when I was young, but it ended up in a dumpster in the early 1980s.

Before I got the PE, I was going to stop at the Hipper, but now that I have this tier 8 German cruiser, I can continue the grind up to the next level.

..

It's unfortunate the Prinz Eugan didn't get the fanfare and acceptance that other premiums get.  If there wasn't the controversial 'Marketing Experiment', I think folks would feel much better of it.  As it stands, it's pretty to look at and it fights well.  Most importantly, it will remain after I sell the Hipper - which doesn't have much fame, except for a British Destroyer ramming it.


So much has been lost, so much forgotten. So much pain, so much blood. And for what? I wonder. The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between. But there is still time to seize that one last, fragile moment. To choose something better, to make a difference.  -- Babylon 5


sasquatch_research #126 Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:52 AM

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Hey

I would love to add the Prinz Eugen to my German fleet but it's not available, even with the problems mentioned, I would still add it.  I did pick up Scharnhorst this weekend and it's a blast to play, better than my Gneisenau in my opinion.  

 

What are the boxes the prior commenter talked about?  I gave up on super crates, since I can't seem to get lucky with those anymore.

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VizeAdmiral_Bach #127 Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:17 AM

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View PostEdgecase, on 13 September 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

 

In the case of Hipper/Eugen, this would be particularly interesting. Elited Hipper? Half off Eugen! (as an example)

 

It might also help in the case of ships that are nearly unplayable without previous experience like Saipan.

 

This is logical!

CLUCH_CARGO #128 Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:09 AM

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View PostBoyarsky, on 13 September 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

 

2Das_Schlippo: who defines the distinction between money grabbing and fair monetization tactics?

The mere restriction of premium content to payers only without the ways to earn it for free may be considered as money grabbing.

Some tactics just look bad in comparison to history and expectations, but are perfectly neutral if you look at them from the outsider's perspective.

Having said that, we realized that this innovation will drive negative reactions. But we can't stop trying something new just because of this concern.

When we released Arpeggio in January we also knew there will be negativity. However, it turned out over time more players enjoyed non-historical fantasy content than left our game because of it.

Maybe this is not a perfect analogy, but I'm just trying to illustrate a burden of decision maker to make such calls and then either succeed or learn.

In this case we've learned something. :)

 

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rododavico #129 Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:46 PM

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Never understood why was it placed in T8 when it could have been easily put in T7 and THEN it would have had some kind of value.

Ok, that's more like it.

Wait... wat?

 


AVR_Project #130 Posted 22 March 2017 - 07:50 PM

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Why get a premium at all?

Answer:  They don't cost anything to play in Co-Op.

I have the Hipper.  If I take away flags, camo, premium, and fair RNG, I will lose credits on a less than average battle.

..

With the Prinz Eugan, all I need to do is get a couple gun hits, and I'm in the positive credit cash-flow direction.

..

There are no concerns about grinding or trying to achieve anything.

Just sail along in Co-op and don't worry.  You paid for your toy..  now enjoy!!


So much has been lost, so much forgotten. So much pain, so much blood. And for what? I wonder. The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between. But there is still time to seize that one last, fragile moment. To choose something better, to make a difference.  -- Babylon 5


WhiteRecon #131 Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:12 AM

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I love my Prinz, got it in a Christmas crate.  Not the best CA, but a damn good one.  Good division ship for sure with some smoke (Kut/RN/DD).

Lance53 #132 Posted 24 March 2017 - 07:43 AM

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View PostWhiteRecon, on 24 March 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

I love my Prinz, got it in a Christmas crate.  Not the best CA, but a damn good one.  Good division ship for sure with some smoke (Kut/RN/DD).

 

 

I don't think that anyone here has argued that it is a bad ship.   The argument is more that as far as actual game play goes, it offers nothing unique compared to Admiral Hipper.   There is nothing that offers any combat advantage.  Yes, you have the economic benefits of a premium ship.   And the ability to train and share captains is nice too.  But is that enough to justify paying the high price it cost?   I honestly don't think that it did.

If I am going to spend money on a premium ship, it needs to offer more value than just the lower service cost and better silver earning capability.   It needs to also offer something unique in terms of game playing capabilities too.

Now if wargaming decides to like reduce the cost of their premium ships by HALF, then i would consider it.   But at the current prices that they charge for T8 premiums, I am looking for more value than what Prinz Eugen offered.   And other Tier 8 premium ships like the Atago, Kutuzov, and Tirpitz do indeed offer just that.

 

If you look at the number of games currently being played on the NA server with Prinz Eugen, it is in 9th place out of the 9 T8 cruisers that are in the game.   And the number of battles it is in is less than a fourth of what the #8 position T8 cruiser has.  I honestly don't believe that many people bought the ship, which is probably why Wargaming pulled it.

 

Indeed, I think that Wargaming is realizing that if it wants to sell lots of Premium ships for big dollars, the ships need to be above average, and offer some unique competitive features  in game play.   Otherwise, people will not buy them. 

 


Edited by Lance53, 24 March 2017 - 07:59 AM.


SireneRacker #133 Posted 24 March 2017 - 08:05 AM

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View PostLance53, on 24 March 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

I don't think that anyone here has argued that it is a bad ship.   The argument is more that as far as actual game play goes, it offers nothing unique compared to Admiral Hipper.   There is nothing that offers any combat advantage.  Yes, you have the economic benefits of a premium ship.   And the ability to train and share captains is nice too.  But is that enough to justify paying the high price it cost?   I honestly don't think that it did.

 

WG made no secret out of it that Prinz Eugen is basically a Hipper with some modifications. But I listed all the differences here: http://forum.worldof...__fromsearch__1

I have made use of the Captain Training benefits and it is insane how fast she earns Captain XP. With some flags I can see her as a printer.

 

View PostLance53, on 24 March 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

If I am going to spend money on a premium ship, it needs to offer more value than just the lower service cost and better silver earning capability.   It needs to also offer something unique in terms of game playing capabilities too.

 

Not all Premium ships offer something unique, some of them are basically copies of their Tech Tree counterpart with some smaller improvements. Not everyone can be a Graf Spee.

 

View PostLance53, on 24 March 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

Now if wargaming decides to like reduce the cost of their premium ships by HALF, then i would consider it.   But at the current prices that they charge for T8 premiums, I am looking for more value than what Prinz Eugen offered.   And other Tier 8 premium ships like the Atago, Kutuzov, and Tirpitz do indeed offer just that.

 

Prinz Eugen is a ship for those who mastered the KM Cruisers. Can you use AP to it's fullest? If yes, you will be of more value than an Atago or Kutuzow. Kutuzow is an HE spamming AA fortress sitting in smoke. But she is fragile, just like Eugen. Eugen has above average armor for a Cruiser thanks to her increased turtleback. And Atago is a floating citadel.

 

View PostLance53, on 24 March 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

Indeed, I think that Wargaming is realizing that if it wants to sell lots of Premium ships for big dollars, the ships need to be above average, and offer some unique competitive features  in game play.   Otherwise, people will not buy them. 

 

And this leads us to Pay2Win...


Proud member of [WAIFU], nothing beats Prinz Eugen

 

Torpedoes don't have any friends. So they will kill everything in their path. To prevent team kills we should all watch out where we fire those fishes. That means each and everyone of us, DDs of the second line!

No my name does NOT refer to those things from Odysseus! They refer to those loud things attached to a fire truck. Not to beautiful girls singing on the Ocean.


Lance53 #134 Posted 14 April 2017 - 01:44 AM

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View PostRoadrider7021, on 08 February 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

    I... wouldn't buy the PE again due to price and similarities with Hipper. But... for whatever reason, the Hipper is one of my favorite cruisers in the game (not due to win rate) and the PE offers the chance to play the ship and earn serious silver as well as train skippers quickly.  And the captain skill reshuffle really seems to favor this ship as well.

 

 

Well, those are two valid points.   But are they by themselves enough to justify spending that much money?  

 

Now if they gave it a buff like they did with the Atago, Belfast, Missouri, and many other premiums, that would then be different, in my pinion.

How about allowing it to mount BOTH AA Defensive Fire and Hydroacoustic, at the same time?   That would be a unique and desirable feature.  Or simply give it the Repair Party heal, like the Atago has, or maybe radar, like the Missouri has.

 

Just give it something unique that would add value to the ship, and thus better justify spending money on it.

 

.
..


Edited by Lance53, 14 April 2017 - 02:04 AM.


Lance53 #135 Posted 14 April 2017 - 02:03 AM

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View PostSireneRacker, on 24 March 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

 

 

And this leads us to Pay2Win...

 

 

No, it leads us to people getting more value for their money.  Again, I personally will not put money into a Premium ship that offers no significant differences.   Everything that you listed is so minor as to be totally insignificant.   It is not going to affect game play at all.

 

Ships like the Murmansk, Molotov, Belfast, Scharnhorst, Kutuzov, Atago, Alabama, Tirpitz ,and Missouri all offer significant advantages.   The Graf Spee is not at all the only premium ship that has significant unique differences.   Compared to all of these other ships, the Prince Eugen comes across as being a bad deal.   I just don't think that it is as good a ship as either the Kutuzov or Atago, which are both at the same Tier, and actually cost a few dollars less back when the Prince Eugen was available in the Premium Shop here in NA..

Heck, even in the EU Premium Shop currently, you can buy the Kutuzov for $5 less than the Prince Eugen.   A Scharnhorst can be purchased for $10 less than the cost of the Prince Eugen.   And they are both far better ships, that the Prince Eugen must compete with when people go to spend money in the Premium Shop.


Edited by Lance53, 14 April 2017 - 02:42 AM.


hornchurch #136 Posted 17 April 2017 - 10:20 AM

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Unless PE gets a buff like the Alabama (goodness), it is totally not worth it. Every other review on it out there says nay. I for one, am not a pro player to be dishing out (and putting in effort to making) reviews. So I will trust their hindsights. SKIPPING PE during the Germany weekend.

Panzer1113 #137 Posted 17 April 2017 - 01:26 PM

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After paying way too much when first came out on a bundle package - still one of my most disappointing purchases.   I love the look of the ship, but she is a meh performer - also grinded Hipper - have much higher win rate with Hipper than PE (though other stats about the same).  Do have a couple of 19 point captains, and the PE did provide some support - but PE struggles in tier 8, up tiered all the time.  I have both Atago and MK, both much better.  If ya want it, great, but really one of the poorer tier 8 ships

Edited by Panzer1113, 17 April 2017 - 01:26 PM.


SireneRacker #138 Posted 17 April 2017 - 04:55 PM

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View Posthornchurch, on 17 April 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

Unless PE gets a buff like the Alabama (goodness), it is totally not worth it. Every other review on it out there says nay. I for one, am not a pro player to be dishing out (and putting in effort to making) reviews. So I will trust their hindsights. SKIPPING PE during the Germany weekend.

 

Prinz Eugen does get a buff, her armor gets some reinforcement preventing 15 inch shells to overmatch her. And Prinz Eugen is a very good ship in the right hands, all you need is to know how the KM Cruisers play and be able to use that knowledge.

 

View PostLance53, on 14 April 2017 - 03:03 AM, said:

No, it leads us to people getting more value for their money.  Again, I personally will not put money into a Premium ship that offers no significant differences.   Everything that you listed is so minor as to be totally insignificant.   It is not going to affect game play at all.

 

Ships like the Murmansk, Molotov, Belfast, Scharnhorst, Kutuzov, Atago, Alabama, Tirpitz ,and Missouri all offer significant advantages.   The Graf Spee is not at all the only premium ship that has significant unique differences.   Compared to all of these other ships, the Prince Eugen comes across as being a bad deal.   I just don't think that it is as good a ship as either the Kutuzov or Atago, which are both at the same Tier, and actually cost a few dollars less back when the Prince Eugen was available in the Premium Shop here in NA..

Heck, even in the EU Premium Shop currently, you can buy the Kutuzov for $5 less than the Prince Eugen.   A Scharnhorst can be purchased for $10 less than the cost of the Prince Eugen.   And they are both far better ships, that the Prince Eugen must compete with when people go to spend money in the Premium Shop.

 

You mean like the Arizona is a unique ship? And you still forget that Prinz Eugen's unique aspect is her economy, she prints Captain XP while being a solid ship that for a change is not flat out superior to it's Tech Tree counterpart, like some of the ships you mentioned. 


Proud member of [WAIFU], nothing beats Prinz Eugen

 

Torpedoes don't have any friends. So they will kill everything in their path. To prevent team kills we should all watch out where we fire those fishes. That means each and everyone of us, DDs of the second line!

No my name does NOT refer to those things from Odysseus! They refer to those loud things attached to a fire truck. Not to beautiful girls singing on the Ocean.


chs4000 #139 Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:23 PM

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Nearly any ship can be good when played by a good player. Another metric we should look at: how good is Prinz Eugen relative to her peers, in the hands of the top 5-10% players who have a diversity of experience across all classes and nations? Only Wargaming has that information, I think. My guess would be that it shows weakness.

 

I'm a good player and I like Prinz Eugen, it just feels weaker than its peers to me. You can't look at my stats and make judgments tho, because I play the Prinz Eugen quite a bit (mostly when I was still learning the game but I did just start playing it again), while I play my Atago and Kutuzov much less frequently. Not that A & K aren't fun but I like my ships to have a certain look to them and Prinz Eugen is very aesthetically attractive.

 

I think Wargaming are probably thinking that the flavor of German ships should be brawling, so they'll buff the armor to make that a touch more workable. We'll see. Personally I like to brawl now & then, but where these ships are weak is in the more typical slinging that occurs at long and mid-range. Ships spend a lot of time at these ranges and a cruiser with ambitions of brawling will get focused down quite quickly during its approach. Atago & Kutuzov fit the meta much better, IMO, with Atago's radically more effective HE and Kutuzov's 1) 50% more guns and 2) Near double RoF and 3) resulting substantially higher general purpose DPM. That would be quite unfair as-is, if it weren't for the fact that both Atago and Kutuzov get something that Prinz Eugen could only dream of: Atago gets heal and Kutuzov gets a well-functioning smoke consumable.

 

A RoF buff is a very simple balancing tweak that will help the ship fit the meta better, I predict it will still be my recommendation. I'm open-minded on the armor buff but my instinct says, while interesting and appreciated (Thank you!), it won't be quite enough. I'd also ask for Heal but I know I read that Wargaming wants the games to end more quickly, so I doubt they'd be keen on giving Heal to Prinz Eugen & Hipper. RoF buff fits their stated intentions quite well, however.


Edited by chs4000, 17 April 2017 - 06:27 PM.


ReddNekk #140 Posted 17 April 2017 - 10:03 PM

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A Premium Ship should have something unique about it that will encourage players to buy it. The only difference between PE and Hipper is the camouflage. Sorry WG, that aint unigue! Adding something like smoke, heals, radar, or beefed up AA would make her unique from the Hipper, and therefore more attractive to buyers.

 

Now the Texas and New York; The Texas has better AA than New York, which makes her unique and more attractive.

 

When PE goes on sale this weekend, I predict that few players will buy her because why shell out real $$$ for a Premium ship THAT'S NO DIFFERENT FROM THE TECH TREE SHIP in any way, shape, or form?


Hold my beer and watch this!
 

 




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