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Things I learned in my first 200 games

Trevzor First 200 Things I learned

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Nachoo31 #41 Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:53 PM

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View PostMeetTheBadger, on 23 August 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Uh... you're shooting armor-piercing at destroyers?  By choice, and not just to clear your gun barrels so you can load high explosive?

 

No.  Just no.

 

Destroyers (the Khabarovsk aside) have no armor.  None.  There's no armor to pierce, let alone a citadel to penetrate.  You will get overpenetrations with destroyer-caliber guns on destroyers, let alone anything bigger.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with tier.  It has to do with how much armor you have to pierce, what the angle on target is, whether or not your guns are large enough to overmatch the armor of a target (this generally applies to battleship guns only), and your shells' velocity and penetration (the Des Moines, for example, has poor shell velocity but high armor penetration on its AP).  Compare the two tier 6 Russian cruisers, for example -- the Budyonny has up to 140mm of armor to pierce, while the Molotov only has 70mm at best.  And they're the same nationality, same class, and same tier.  And one has double the armor of the other.

 

Tiers do not imply increasing armor (the Cleveland is tougher than the Pensacola, for example).  You have to know what your weapons can do, and what you're shooting at, and where to shoot that target for maximum effect.

 

And use high explosive on destroyers for crying out loud.

 

  In a battleship.. you sometimes just have to clean the chamber.  I rather shoot AP then have to sit and wait for the reload of HE.  Yes I do see the dd and still hold the AP with HE ready to reload.

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MeetTheBadger #42 Posted 24 August 2016 - 03:01 PM

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View PostNachoo31, on 24 August 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

In a battleship.. you sometimes just have to clean the chamber.  I rather shoot AP then have to sit and wait for the reload of HE.  Yes I do see the dd and still hold the AP with HE ready to reload.

 

Well, yes, I do that too.  No sense messing around with a thirty-second reload -- better to do some damage and queue the proper ammunition.  But if one has the chance, loading up HE is the best bet, unless of course, it's a matter of "I'll have one shot at this DD and then it's back to cruisers/battleships."  All context, but when it's just a destroyer, HE is more consistent.

Ole_Thumper #43 Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:38 PM

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View PostLubzinNJ, on 23 August 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

 

Free XP past the Karl

Go up the Russian and IJN lines first because Russia STRONK and IJN would have won the war if not for OP American factories

 

 

Thank god for the op American factories

CL_50_Helena #44 Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:23 PM

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View PostSergeantHop, on 24 August 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

AP is better to use in BBs against the destroyers, because if you do get a shell down the length of the ship, you'll get a normal pen. It has to do with the amount of material the shell passed through, not just the ship's external armor. But, in something like a cruiser, HE is preferable.

 

I've seen some people using AP in destroyers on other destroyers in ranked though. I think the theory is the AP will do more damage to the guns and wreck them more quickly. Not sure it really worked though.

 

As a DD driver, I normally have little fear of BBs, save for the very random chance of being hit by secondaries.   Since I primarily play T2-T5, there's little fear at all.   I'll be hit, but it's not that much compared to racking up that EXP gravy.   

 

Main guns?  Who cares.  IF they hit, it's game over (usually).  If not?  More EXP for me.  The type of shell matters little at all.  They rarely hit.  



AndrewRall #45 Posted 30 August 2016 - 05:12 AM

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Great post, helpful generally speaking from all directions.

Tordenskiold #46 Posted 30 August 2016 - 11:36 PM

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Not to derail the AP vs DD discussion, but here is the biggest lesson I've learnt.
When I'm close enough to fire at thr reds, they usually are close enough to fire at me. I've learned that , but I can't tell how many times I keep forgetting that lesson.

Roadstar1602 #47 Posted 01 September 2016 - 08:23 PM

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I'm at about the 200 game mark myself. The main thing I've learned is that if there is any way on earth it's possible that a friendly can change course, speed, or otherwise redirect his ship in order to put himself directly in the path of a salvo of torpedoes I launched at least 60 seconds ago, he will surely do exactly that.

Espinoza75 #48 Posted 07 September 2016 - 04:47 PM

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I'd have to agree with MeetTheBadger. In a BB I'll clean the guns fiting AP at a DD, then switch to HE. Usually,  I load HE first now so I'm ready to support friendly DDs who encounter the enemy destroyers. The chance to delete, dmg, or break modules is too good to pass up. Especially knocking out torpedoes before they can launch.  (Always assume he launched btw)

 

Forcing repairs early then having you or an ally light it on fire is a tactical advantage.  Also, as stated by the prev poster, near misses frequently cause concussion incapacitations. You're more likely to just Detonate him so he can mount more flags later lol



WES_HoundDog #49 Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:44 PM

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I have to chime in on this AP vs HE on DD's.     I don't think I have found a German ship I would choose HE over AP.   AP always seems to do more damage because the HE is just so weak.   In my Sharnhorst AP pens dd's on about 50% of it's hits.   I'd take 2500 damage pen over a 950 damage HE hit.   In German cruisers the only reason I'd really switch to HE is if they are trying to run away or completely angled.  The HE can break the engines and  some AP shells will bounce off of the dd.  At high tier I get very little over pens on my Hindenberg with AP and score massive damage rolls.    In battleships in general,   If I know I'm going to be running into a dd,  don't have anything else to shoot at and know I have plenty of time to load the shells before I need them then sure I'll load HE, but far and wide AP works just as well.         In most other ships I'd prefer HE.   Take the Zao for instance, that HE damage is so powerful you couldn't pay me to use AP.


 

Things I learned in the first 200 games

1. Using the scope works better for your aim then just putting the little target icon infront of the small dot representing a ship.

2. BB's take a bunch of shells well but not so much torps.

3. It's better to be sailing away from the enemy angled then sailing into a bunch of them.  Think ahead.  Turning around when the enemy is close is not a smart thing to do.       Just be prepared for the one offs calling you a coward sitting in the back.

4. Dd's sitting in smoke are very annoying, run acoustics on German ships :)


 


 

Plenty of more things learned but they were after the first 200 games.   What can I say, I'm a slow learner.


 

 

 


Edited by WES_HoundDog, 03 October 2016 - 02:48 PM.


WhiteRecon #50 Posted 10 October 2016 - 06:38 AM

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View PostPulicat, on 24 August 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

My early games? So long ago, I wish I had saved some of those replays. Early on I learned that I would be doing a lot of learning for a long time.

 

This.  At over 4,000 battles and still learning, that's the fun part.  Everyone loses their crap above talking about the right ammo, b/c there is a lot to this game which also grows with time.



CountLucklessTheSeaDevil #51 Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:08 PM

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I just started playing WoW in late July and have completed about 300 PvP games.

 

1. In my experience switching between AP and HE in a BB to fight DDs is often a waste of time; by the time the HE is loaded, the DD is back to concealment and I then want to switch back to AP so I can fight the CAs and BBs that are now firing at me. I might start the game by loading HE if there are four or more DDs in the enemy fleet; a couple of times I would forget to later switch back to AP when fighting the CAs and BBs.

 

2. When running low Tier German CLs (Dresden,  Kolberg, or Karlsruhe), trying to lead the attack is a quick way to the bottom; this may be obvious to experienced players, but I learned it the hard way before I started reading the forum about German cruisers.  I have had some success supporting an allied CA or BB and helping it fight a red BB by setting it on fire multiple times with HE.

 

3. I learned that being in the SMS Nassau (or any old BB) fighting one-on-one against an experienced DD captain is extremely unpleasant.  In one game the DD must have stayed just out of detection range the whole time (never saw him on mini-map after his initial approach) and he sent spread after spread of torps at me as I tried to defend the base (I was only ship on-hand to defend). I eventually made a few mistakes and hit some torps. This contrasted greatly with another PvP game when my Nassau was attacked by three DDs (with presumably less experienced players) and I sank them all with (mostly) my main 11" guns while continuously turning and survived only to be sunk a minute later by an enemy BB (I was the only green ship in that area of the map).

 

4. Of the many things I have yet to learn is how to effectively run a DD. I torpedo a few ships once in a while with my Japanese DD, but usually get shelled to pieces in the process.

 

5. Patience in when to fire main BB guns (instead of always firing as soon as they reload). I have recently scored more citadel hits.

 

In general I am enjoying WoW quite a bit; except for that fact that the number of times I have been sunk exceed the total number of ships in the German High Seas Fleet!

 



SolarChild #52 Posted 21 October 2016 - 09:14 PM

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You forgot to say that HE is 90% likely to cause fire and do 600% more damage to any ship that AP, since every shell from HE causes fire and ruins game play.  Then there is the fact that all cruisers are more powerful than any Battle ship as the spam stupid amounts of DPM that can not be match by the battleships due to the damn fire [edited].  Then there is all the torpedoes spammed by ships with a limitless supply....    In a nut shell this game is still a class "A" Failure at every level of play...  But it is Wargaming and NO ONE ever accused this company of having a good game or good programing.......

Tzarevitch #53 Posted 24 October 2016 - 09:58 PM

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View PostAduial, on 24 August 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

 

Yes, but that only applies in BBs. With cruisers, you should always shoot HE. 

 

​Not so. It depends a lot on the cruiser, the target ship, and the angle of the target ship. You have to know your ship and your target.

SergeantHop #54 Posted 24 October 2016 - 11:40 PM

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View PostMeetTheBadger, on 24 August 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

 

No.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Not.

 

If you can get one shell from a battleship's AP to go the entire length of a destroyer, you might get a standard penetration.  But if that destroyer turns, even slightly... overpenetration.  Have the side?  Guaranteed overpenetration.  And overpenetrations from AP ALWAYS do less damage than standard penetrations from HE (damage saturation on a given ship section permitting).  Always.  Even from the Yamato.

 

And again, this doesn't take into account the likely module damage from HE (making further shots easier, due to disabling the destroyer).

 

If you have a destroyer pointed perfectly at you, and get a perfect shell hit, you might get one standard pen with battleship AP.  Maybe.  But any turns, any maneuvers, anything at all, and HE instantly becomes preferable for that target.  To say nothing of the fact that if you land multiple shells with a battleship salvo on a destroyer perpendicular to your ship, you might get one standard pen, but are entirely likely to get a couple of overpens if any other shells do hit, whereas with HE, they will all do standard damage regardless of the target's orientation.  And set fires.  And break the destroyer's engine.

 

An example.  The Yamato.  The Yamato fires at a fleeing destroyer that isn't manevering at all, just running straight away, and manages to score two hits smack on the stern, which is pretty good considering battleship dispersion and the narrowness and small size of the target.  With AP, two overpens will do 2960 damage.  If you do manage to get a standard penetration (and that's unlikely, given how small the target is and how perfectly you have to hit it, right in the stern at an angle that assures the shell will travel enough distance through the ship to both arm and detonate without overpenetrating), you will get more damage than you would with HE, as one standard penetration and one overpen (asking for two standard penetrations is getting into the realm of YouTube one-in-a-million shot compilations) will do 6413 damage.  But miss even slightly, and you do less damage.  With HE, two standard penetrations will do 4866 damage.  Guaranteed, no worrying about target orientation required.  And remember, this is assuming that the destroyer isn't dodging and turning and is perfectly perpendicular to the Yamato, and the Yamato manages two hits at such an angle that one of them is moving at a trajectory flat enough and straight enough to go the length of the target.  And now let's assume three hits.  One standard pen and two overpens with AP: 7983 damage (three overpens, which would be more likely, would only be 4440 damage).  Three standard penetrations with HE (much more likely, by the way): 7300 damage.  Already basically no difference in damage, and HE still has that fire and module damage chance.  Four shots now.  One standard AP pen, three overpens with AP: 9373 damage (and remember, that one standard penetration is pretty lucky -- four overpens is far more likely, which would only be 5920 damage).  Four standard hits with HE (again, assuming you hit with four shots on the stern of a completely-perpendicular fleeing destroyer): 9733.

 

More damage.  Consistent damage, not gambling on a lucky stern-to-bow full-lengthAP penetration on a tiny target, but rather being able to hit anywhere.  And the AP shots assume you don't hit something like a turret, which shows up as a "standard penetration" in the ribbon counter (assuming, you know, you actually penetrate the turret, which isn't really an issue shooting at a destroyer, admittedly) but has its own (undisplayed) HP pool separate from the main ship that is not subtracted from the ship's health as it's depleted.  This is one of the reasons you can shoot at a ship with AP and see "standard penetration" ribbons displayed but do no damage with that shot (well, to the ship's HP pool, anyway -- the turret's health drops, but you can't see that and it doesn't contribute towards sinking the ship, just disabling or destroying the turret).  HE shots, even if they do hit a turret on a destroyer, will probably still do HP damage (splash radius).  And once again, if you do hit with HE, the destroyer's engine is likely damaged, probably the rudder too, maybe some of the weapons, and there will almost certainly be one fire, which means, if that destroyer's damage control consumable is on cooldown, you've just increased that destroyer's surface detection range by several kilometers for about an extra minute.  Which means you (or someone else on your team), will probably get another shot, or two, at that destroyer.

 

Lol. I was running my Ishizuchi yesterday and was getting standard pens on destroyers very regularly. I get them all the time in my Tirpitz, I get them all the time in my North Carolina, I get them all the time in my Montana, and I get them all the time in my Yamato. 

 

I'm aware of how module damage works, but I'm also aware that when three hits does 7k damage and it shows a standard pen, I didn't do module damage. 

 

I've done enough battleship play to see the difference in damage between HE and AP on destroyers. If HE did more damage for me, I would use HE. 


Edited by SergeantHop, 24 October 2016 - 11:43 PM.

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IronDuke17 #55 Posted 26 October 2016 - 04:47 PM

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I'll join this whopping huge AP vs HE at DDs discussion.

I just wish to point out that if a DD is broadside, hitting him with AP underwater can result in normal pens. The shell is slowed enough for the side armor to activate the fuse, it seems, and certainly it's slow enough that it explodes inside the ship.

I've deleted Bensons that way in my NC. Such salt as they produced is sufficient for many French fries.:popcorn:

 

Things I learned in my first 200 battles:

You can turn around in between an enemy BBs volleys, even when in a BB yourself.

NO STRAIGHT LINE DRIVING IN BBS.

Some people are really dumb. Light them on fire and leave; they won't repair. Fire torpedoes with enemy planes overhead, they won't dodge.:amazed:

 

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Mulletproof #56 Posted 29 October 2016 - 05:04 AM

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I'll weigh in on the 'great AP debate' if only because i got reamed for it in a match.

Basically, i had to make a call to keep the AP i had loaded vs an island hugging DD or load up HE. With no guarantees he wouldn't pop back into LOS, i kept the AP. He did and my Kongo unloaded all 4 Turrets on him. Not everything hit, but i erased 2/3rds of his hp from his broadside.

AP can work against DDs. Recommended? Possibly not, but fire whats loaded anyway.

 

 


Cruiser_Atago #57 Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:53 AM

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About sums it up for me

 


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Giantsgiants #58 Posted 09 November 2016 - 08:50 PM

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I'm not sure if you guys believe this, but I believe that learning to aim is the most important skill in this game.

 

Aiming allows you to deal more damage.

Dealing more damage allows you to sink ships.

Sinking ships allows you to capture objectives.

Capturing objectives allows you to win games.

 

Those strategies you see unicums and Youtubers do all rely on being able to hit your target. Reading a minimap, predicting movements, and putting your ship in advantageous positions will do you and your team no good if you can't deliver the damaging blows.

 

 



Shnoze_Shmon #59 Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:27 PM

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What I learned, just because you found you could hunt DDs in a T-3 German cruiser (got 3 in a row one game) doesn't mean you can go back to the USN T-6, and T-7 cruisers and do the same thing.  No, it definitely doesn't mean that.  Ohh the pain!  So much pain! 
Spoiler

Elo_J_Fudpucker #60 Posted 13 November 2016 - 07:44 PM

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Lone ships that go aggressive ( or yolo) die almost every time.

Well organized aggression wins most times.

So many times a wave of our ships will be pushing a flank, and at the first sign of the enemy, most turn around and run, where they should push....  I can't get why so many try to survive and end up losing versus fighting it out and losing, or ... maybe, just maybe, winning

Is it the aggressive team that wins? At least the well organized ones seem to.. :)

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