Jump to content


"Fun and engaging game mechanics"


  • Please log in to reply
140 replies to this topic

PauloBR #1 Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:49 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Members

  • 634
  • Member since:
    11-05-2013

1 torp and bye bye 60k hp lol



Pigeon_of_War #2 Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:50 PM

    Assistant Producer

  • Developers

  • 594
  • Member since:
    10-21-2013

Right in the gun magazine!

 

Working as intended. :)


(Main Avatar created by xtcmax)

(Signature avatar created by Kombat_W0MBAT)

Follow me on Twitter
Find us on Facebook!

 

Kombat_W0MBAT #3 Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:50 PM

    Commander

  • Members

  • 3,526
  • Member since:
    10-30-2015

The other day I detonated a battleship and a destroyer within 4 minutes of each other. I just know RNG is going to balance the scales soon. :(

 

 


Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT, 01 August 2016 - 08:52 PM.


issm #4 Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:54 PM

    Vice Admiral

  • Members

  • 9,844
  • Member since:
    06-26-2015

View PostKombat_W0MBAT, on 01 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

The other day I detonated a battleship and a destroyer within 4 minutes of each other. I just know RNG is going to balance the scales soon. :(

 

 

 

That's not how random works.

 

Unless WG is weighting outcomes based on whatever variables without telling anyone.


Got a problem with the game? Don't pay WG, and tell them why.

Mandatory Introductory Reading to the Internet


Zampy #5 Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:59 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Beta Testers

  • 1,790
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
Being detonated is the opposite of a game engaging me, seeing as it stops me from playing that match for any longer :p

Kombat_W0MBAT #6 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:02 PM

    Commander

  • Members

  • 3,526
  • Member since:
    10-30-2015

View Postissm, on 01 August 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

 

That's not how random works.

 

Unless WG is weighting outcomes based on whatever variables without telling anyone.

 

Yes. It was a joke. 

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT, 01 August 2016 - 09:03 PM.


Pigeon_of_War #7 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:13 PM

    Assistant Producer

  • Developers

  • 594
  • Member since:
    10-21-2013

I'm not entirely sure what the anger towards detonations are. 

 

For #1: It's not like they DIDN'T happen, the HMS Hood and USS Arizona being perfect examples of how a well placed bomb or shell completely ruins a ship.

For #2: Our sister product has ammo-racking in it, and that's been in the game for some years. Most people love that mechanic . This is literally the same dealy. 

For #3: From the hundreds of battles I've played, I can count on the same one hand how many times I've either detonated a ship or been detonated myself. Its an extremely rare occurrence for a reason, but most players do believe it is "fun" when they pull it off. Of course from time to time it's going to happen to you :B


(Main Avatar created by xtcmax)

(Signature avatar created by Kombat_W0MBAT)

Follow me on Twitter
Find us on Facebook!

 

LillyKnight #8 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:22 PM

    Master Chief Petty Officer

  • Beta Testers

  • 214
  • Member since:
    10-06-2014

View PostPigeon_of_War, on 01 August 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

For #3: From the hundreds of battles I've played, I can count on the same one hand how many times I've either detonated a ship or been detonated myself. Its an extremely rare occurrence for a reason, but most players do believe it is "fun" when they pull it off. Of course from time to time it's going to happen to you :B

 

I have 60 detonations and I can guarantee most of them are from the time period since May.


Edited by YoshikoTsushima, 01 August 2016 - 09:29 PM.


Lert #9 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:25 PM

    Admiral

  • Supertester
  • In AlfaTesters
    Beta Testers

  • 11,512
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostPigeon_of_War, on 01 August 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

For #3: From the hundreds of battles I've played, I can count on the same one hand how many times I've either detonated a ship or been detonated myself. Its an extremely rare occurrence for a reason, but most players do believe it is "fun" when they pull it off. Of course from time to time it's going to happen to you :B

 

Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windscreen. The problem is that it's not fun being the bug, at the whims of something outside of your own control.

(Above stats not guaranteed accurate. I'm a supertester and test ships don't always register correctly)

 

Ship hipster: I liked Alabama before it was cool


RedSeaBear #10 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:38 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,622
  • Member since:
    07-03-2015

In 3,537 games I've been detonated 47 times so it has been a rare thing to happen to my ships. It did seem like after the patch that reworked the modules I suffered more detonation and even witnessed a lot of them, multiply in a game even. I think the frustrating part is they can happen at full health and there isn't much you can do to prevent them from happening. I know you can take the module to help fight them but come on who gimps them self like that? The other module is much better. There is also the flag that stops it from happening but like a lot of things people save them for ranked or just ignore them. I know I don't normally run the anti det flags because how do you know they are working? Maybe if there was an in game audio cue while running the anti det flag like, "That shell almost hit the magazine captain", you could re-enforce the importance of this flag. 

But the real frustrating rage quit moment is when you get detonated at the start of the match before you can do anything.

Watch what happens to this destroyer at the start of a match, he certainly didn't have fun match and the repair bill must have been a pain in the hull. Its like RNG just goes screw this captain. 

Spoiler

If you wanted to take some of the sting out of them, make Detonation Medal reward 10 flags the first time and than 1 flag every time it happens after that. Than maybe people will get the message to start using. 


Edited by RedSeaBear, 01 August 2016 - 09:38 PM.

                         ~Admiral of the Sinksalot Fleet~

                                               ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ

                       Make Super Containers Great Again


Stratego89 #11 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:52 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,072
  • Member since:
    01-21-2016

View PostPigeon_of_War, on 01 August 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Right in the gun magazine!

 

Working as intended. :)

 

Detonations need to change...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Stats mean absolutely nothing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Stratego89 #12 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:55 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,072
  • Member since:
    01-21-2016

View PostPigeon_of_War, on 01 August 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

I'm not entirely sure what the anger towards detonations are. 

 

For #1: It's not like they DIDN'T happen, the HMS Hood and USS Arizona being perfect examples of how a well placed bomb or shell completely ruins a ship.

For #2: Our sister product has ammo-racking in it, and that's been in the game for some years. Most people love that mechanic . This is literally the same dealy. 

For #3: From the hundreds of battles I've played, I can count on the same one hand how many times I've either detonated a ship or been detonated myself. Its an extremely rare occurrence for a reason, but most players do believe it is "fun" when they pull it off. Of course from time to time it's going to happen to you :B

 

The anger towards detonation is how they are handled. As they exist now when a detonation happens it's like a giant middle finger from RNGesus.

 

Make them skill based, not RNG. Put in some sort of "super citadels" inside of the normal citadels. A smaller area. The EXACT spot(s) ammo would be stored inside the magazine. When you penetrate that- give it a detonation. In addition- FIX the flags so they ACTUALLY set detonation chance to 0% as they say they should- unless that's already been fixed. Detonations should not feel like a big F-U from RNGesus. They should feel like "oh that was a good shot well played m8 I should have angled better".


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Stats mean absolutely nothing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Stratego89 #13 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:56 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,072
  • Member since:
    01-21-2016

View PostStratego89, on 01 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

 

The anger towards detonation is how they are handled. As they exist now when a detonation happens it's like a giant middle finger from RNGesus.

 

Make them skill based, not RNG. Put in some sort of "super citadels" inside of the normal citadels. A smaller area. The EXACT spot(s) ammo would be stored inside the magazine. When you penetrate that (EDIT: Correct distance penetration. Not under/over penetration)- give it a detonation. In addition- FIX the flags so they ACTUALLY set detonation chance to 0% as they say they should- unless that's already been fixed. Detonations should not feel like a big F-U from RNGesus. They should feel like "oh that was a good shot well played m8 I should have angled better".

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Stats mean absolutely nothing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


kerensky914 #14 Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:57 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Supertester

  • 2,720
  • Member since:
    11-12-2015

View PostRedSeaBear, on 01 August 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

In 3,537 games I've been detonated 47 times so it has been a rare thing to happen to my ships. It did seem like after the patch that reworked the modules I suffered more detonation and even witnessed a lot of them, multiply in a game even. I think the frustrating part is they can happen at full health and there isn't much you can do to prevent them from happening.

 

Given the post earlier in the thread about the mechanics of modules AA/secondaries, etc) and detonations, I wonder if the rise in detonations is simply due to the increase in the number of AA guns on many ships and the increased amounts of HE being thrown about.  Lots more AA guns getting pinged by HE = lots more rolls against that chance to go boom.

"it is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." - MacBeth, who was obviously talking about the forums...

"Doctors can always bury their mistakes.  Architects can only advise their client to plant vines." - Frank Lloyd Wright

kerensky914 #15 Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:00 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Supertester

  • 2,720
  • Member since:
    11-12-2015

View PostStratego89, on 01 August 2016 - 03:55 PM, said:

Make them skill based, not RNG. Put in some sort of "super citadels" inside of the normal citadels. A smaller area. The EXACT spot(s) ammo would be stored inside the magazine. When you penetrate that- give it a detonation. In addition- FIX the flags so they ACTUALLY set detonation chance to 0% ...

 

If you read the post earlier in this thread, what you are describing is *EXACTLY* how they work.  As for the flag, it is not 100% protection, it is -100% to the chance, where the chance starts off at some higher number that we don't know based on whatever else goes into the formula.  I would like more transparency on that calculation, to be honest.

"it is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." - MacBeth, who was obviously talking about the forums...

"Doctors can always bury their mistakes.  Architects can only advise their client to plant vines." - Frank Lloyd Wright

DerKrampus #16 Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:07 PM

    Ensign

  • Members

  • 952
  • Member since:
    07-01-2015
Managed to detonate a Dresden in the Mikasa the other day.  Only one shell hit the target at 4Km, but it was the right shell, in the right place.  XD

 


Sturg303 #17 Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:17 PM

    Admiral of the Navy

  • Alpha Tester

  • 15,363
  • Member since:
    11-05-2013
Which GPU do you use?

 

 


Kombat_W0MBAT #18 Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:26 PM

    Commander

  • Members

  • 3,526
  • Member since:
    10-30-2015

View PostPigeon_of_War, on 01 August 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

I'm not entirely sure what the anger towards detonations are. 

 

For #1: It's not like they DIDN'T happen, the HMS Hood and USS Arizona being perfect examples of how a well placed bomb or shell completely ruins a ship.

For #2: Our sister product has ammo-racking in it, and that's been in the game for some years. Most people love that mechanic . This is literally the same dealy. 

For #3: From the hundreds of battles I've played, I can count on the same one hand how many times I've either detonated a ship or been detonated myself. Its an extremely rare occurrence for a reason, but most players do believe it is "fun" when they pull it off. Of course from time to time it's going to happen to you :B

 

People react more strongly to a negative experience than a positive one. Giving vs taking something of the same value doesn't have commiserate levels of joy/happiness vs anger/sadness. As such, the lividity towards detonations is primarily psychological. IMHO

 

I also think it has a certain shock factor. When you detonate someone, you accept it and smile and move on to the next ship. When you're the one detonated, it feels very jarring and unexpected.... especially when you were full health. 


Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT, 01 August 2016 - 10:28 PM.


1Sherman #19 Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:41 PM

    Commander

  • Alpha Tester

  • 3,237
  • Member since:
    07-10-2013

View PostPigeon_of_War, on 01 August 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

I'm not entirely sure what the anger towards detonations are. 

 

For #1: It's not like they DIDN'T happen, the HMS Hood and USS Arizona being perfect examples of how a well placed bomb or shell completely ruins a ship.

For #2: Our sister product has ammo-racking in it, and that's been in the game for some years. Most people love that mechanic . This is literally the same dealy. 

For #3: From the hundreds of battles I've played, I can count on the same one hand how many times I've either detonated a ship or been detonated myself. Its an extremely rare occurrence for a reason, but most players do believe it is "fun" when they pull it off. Of course from time to time it's going to happen to you :B

 

My thoughts exactly. Whenever I see people whining about detonations, I tell them to equip Juliet Charlie and do the following:


"To defeat an enemy you must know them. Not simply their battle tactics, but their history, philosophy, art."

"War. It's all you've ever known, isn't it? You were so young when you survived the Clone War. No wonder you're as equipped in spirit to fight as well as you do. War is, in your blood. I study the art of war, work to perfect it. But you, you were forged by it.

"Everything leading up to this moment has been rehearsal. The real performance is about to begin. I'm counting on it."

"They revealed their meager defenses. Now we will crush them."

"I'm not accepting surrenders at this time. I want you to know failure, utter defeat, and that it is I who delivers it crashing down upon you. Now. let us proceed."


IKU19 #20 Posted 01 August 2016 - 11:08 PM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 4,824
  • Member since:
    04-20-2015

View PostPigeon_of_War, on 01 August 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

I'm not entirely sure what the anger towards detonations are. 

 

For #1: It's not like they DIDN'T happen, the HMS Hood and USS Arizona being perfect examples of how a well placed bomb or shell completely ruins a ship.

For #2: Our sister product has ammo-racking in it, and that's been in the game for some years. Most people love that mechanic . This is literally the same dealy. 

For #3: From the hundreds of battles I've played, I can count on the same one hand how many times I've either detonated a ship or been detonated myself. Its an extremely rare occurrence for a reason, but most players do believe it is "fun" when they pull it off. Of course from time to time it's going to happen to you :B

 

Because nobody likes having their match terminated because of "Bad Luck"

There's no way around it other than running the flag.

Once it happens, it happens. Game over man, game over.

It takes less skill than a quintuple citadel from Yamato's glorious 460mm shells.

A random shell can detonate a ship, it feels cheap, and cheated.

It's not a fun mechanic, while it existed in real life-- World of Warships is by no means a realistic game.

It always has made sacrifices where needed in order to keep things fun and exciting, see the entire Japanese Destroyer line which is repeatedly mangled not to mention that every torpedo is about 10 to 25 knots faster than in real life.

 

But Detonations, no way around it once it happens and there's nothing you can do to prevent it from happening aside from the flag.

You can't angle against it because either HE's splash damage will damage the magazine or destroy modules which in my theories can trigger a detonation

You can reduce it's occurrence but it's still a real chance, a real dice roll.

 

I want detonations to be in the game, but I want it to be less of a dice roll.  What I'm trying to say is that there need to be more real ways to prevent detonations. Ways that involve skill on both players.

 

Like, only allowing detonations when a shell hits the magazine, and only if it hits the magazine. Not because a shell hit the water next to me and the splash damage knocked an AA turret out and caused a detonation. That's the issue, you don't need to hit the magazine. You're not going to convince me that a 127mm Japanese DD HE shell or a 127mm Atlanta HE shell at range causes a huge penetration into a battleship, hitting the magazine, and detonates them. AP maybe, but not HE.


WarGaming, can I have Kitakami?

Wannabe-captain of NCC-1701-D

50 DKP MINUS





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users