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How to Control your Win Rate


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twitch133 #221 Posted 18 April 2017 - 05:46 PM

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View Postnina_blain_73, on 18 April 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

i just recently started using LWM's method and until this event slapped us around showed almost an immediate improvement. I intend to go back to working this as soon as possible to make myself not so terribad

 

It works! Good luck with your adventures in learning the game. It is really rewarding.

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not_acceptable #222 Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:38 AM

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View PostLittleWhiteMouse, on 18 April 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

 

In theory, I would agree with you.  But if winning is important to you, do you really want to gamble that each and every game you're going to get players that understand the fundamentals of teamwork?  How often do you have those games where everything gels beautifully and you're all working in synch with one another?  I wish it was more often -- I really do.  Sadly, I've discovered that coordinated team play is somewhat of a rarity in Random Battles, no matter how much effort I put in towards trying to achieve it.  In fact, it's so rare that I made a couple of threads about after-action reports of games where it did occur.

 

To this end, short of playing in divisions, you're not going to see team work like that often enough to make it a benchmark for improving your win rate, which is the sole point of discussion of this thread.  A player that relies on team work to improve their win rate will only see marginal gains on their bottom line compared to a player that knows and understands how to win a match in the framework of any team composition they may have.  Knowing how to operate selfishly -- to work with whatever scant resources you may have will see your win rate increase.  Relying on team mates will, sadly, hold you back.  This isn't because team work is a bad thing or that it's not incredibly powerful.  It's because it's rare.

 

dear LWM.

been struggling since I started playing this game. am utterly frustrated, and my results are not even close to what I have experienced in every other game played. when I read the original post, found myself responding negatively, what would be the point in designing a team-play based game in which the best way to improve your win rate was to NOT count on the team?

 

I am old, stubborn and experienced enough to know how I want and like to play, and most of the time it does not work well in this game. being way too aggressive, trying to figure out what the team needs most, and trying to be in the right place at the right time for the team with little or no consideration for my ship health or situation results in deletion from the battle in short order, and it turn negatively effects damage done, and enemy ships killed, which is not a good thing no matter how you're playing. for the friendlies anyway.

 

completely agree that objective observation, particularly game films, is the fastest and best way to improve. also the most painful. add to the mix this: I have a tendency to pitch empirical observation, critical thinking, and objective self evaluation right out the window when I see a couple team-mates heading to the back of the map as soon as the battle starts, or 3 or 4 (or more) friendlies colliding while all hiding behind a small island. or there are 4 TKers on my team, and they are bickering and fighting with the rest of the team about the friendly morons that sailed right into their torps. or I am being shot at by the closest friendly, who ended up getting distracted by another friendly and sinking them.

 

 

and I completely understand what you are saying, and just flat out loath saying you are probably right. even though this evening, I tried out the French cruisers. that was not much fun. so I switched to the yugumo, for a win, decent damage, couple kills, but.... felt less than honorable skulking around out of range and stealth torping. switched to the yorck (yes, I read what you said about specializing, and agree) and had a pile of awful battles. here's the summary of tonites battles:

 

 

8 of 10 battles were defeats. in 7 of those defeats, I was in the top 2 for the team, this accomplished with under-average damage, a bit over average sinkings and survivals. 7 of the 8 losses were blowout losses, with the 'closest' 600+ points difference. in 5 of the losses we sank no more than 3 enemy ships, in 1 we sank none.

 

repeating to myself, "it's not the team, it's not matchmaking, it's not RNG, it's not an unholy combination of those things, it's me," and this does not jibe (nautical term) as anywhere close to objective considering the nature of those defeats. watched a few replays, made some mistakes, for sure, but do not feel those battles were anything close to winnable, and that was obvious early on. have posted a couple times about the high number of complete slaughters I have been in lately, and was savaged by the usual trollers (some of whom even explained it wasn't trolling). tonite, 70% of the battles were flat out ugly early, and getting worse, with most of the team horribly out of position, squabbling, TK stuff, and nobody is hitting anything. I'm not making this crapup, and I sure as [edited]wish it were not happening. I don't believe it's a conspiracy, nor a switch WG toggles for older players, or anything of that nature, so don't play the tin foil hat card.

 

my struggle is exactly this; I often times do not enjoy the style of gameplay apparently required to win and excel in this game. I like winning. I like close, tough battles. I hate losing. I sometimes lack for patience. I use earnest evans as my example (how long do you think he would last in this game? can you imagine a DD attacking an entire fleet the way the game is now?)... and throughout history my favorite naval heros were quite aggressive.

 

suggestions? (ed. note: besides uninstalling, getting a tin hat, or the eating popcorn crap)

 


Edited by not_acceptable, 21 April 2017 - 06:40 AM.

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MelonFlavoredShells #223 Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:34 PM

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LittleWhiteMouse #224 Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:27 AM

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View Postnot_acceptable, on 21 April 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

 

<All very carefully read, just edited out for this reply!>

suggestions? (ed. note: besides uninstalling, getting a tin hat, or the eating popcorn crap)

 

 

One of the things I've always struggled with personally is believing myself to be more competent than I actually am.  If there's anything PVP games have taught me it's that I'm nowhere near as good as I would like to be.  A lot of the frustration I experience in video games occurs when I can't do what I think I should be capable of doing.  A line of thinking like, "I should be able to one-shot that low-health cruiser that's 10km away with this next broadside from HMS Hood," is just setting myself up for comedic disaster.  This only becomes all the more infuriating when the failures compound or cascade into a loss.

 

From what you've described, survival is the biggest hurdle for you at the moment (I may be mistaken -- I'm not pulling up your stats and am just taking your description at your word).  Your heart is in the right place and you're taking the right actions to help your team win, but when you're sunk, this influence stops.  You're in a difficult place where you now have to compromise between doing the right thing to win a match versus padding your chances of surviving an encounter so that you can continue to influence the game.  To be clear:  there's nothing wrong with being sunk in achieving an objective that clinches the match.  But like you've described, how well can you really trust team mates to win that are humping one another on grid J10?

 

This may mean that instead of taking the high-risk, high reward actions like you have been doing, that you scale back on doing the riskiest / most influential thing and instead look for something that still hampers the enemy but keeps you hale and healthy.


Edited by LittleWhiteMouse, 26 April 2017 - 02:39 AM.

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Bill_Halsey #225 Posted 26 April 2017 - 04:11 AM

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my struggle is exactly this; I often times do not enjoy the style of gameplay apparently required to win and excel in this game. I like winning. I like close, tough battles. I hate losing. I sometimes lack for patience. I use earnest evans as my example (how long do you think he would last in this game? can you imagine a DD attacking an entire fleet the way the game is now?)... and throughout history my favorite naval heros were quite aggressive.

 

Evans realized the odds of coming out alive was slim, but he went in anyway. I looked at your stats and you seems to be a Bismark guy. I call T8-T10 BB play, "WOT Naval edition" . Because you will have to stay bow on most of the time and be a torp magnet because of it. I am an aggressive person also and I ended dying a lot in the beginning. What I recommend is this: Attempt to stay alive for the first 10 minutes and then see if it's worth being aggressive at that point. For some folks, having 100k damage in the first 8 minutes then dying is fine. But you don't influence the game after that. There is nothing wrong with being aggressive. It's better than the acts of skittishness that some players show. If you're a dd player, being blown up early is part of the risk. Otherwise, why play dd's. Oh, and you might consider joining a clan. It should help and you can learn from some players experience.

not_acceptable #226 Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:04 AM

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dear LWM and bill halsey,

 

you both have similar and valid points. when I first started playing it was to get an Iowa class BB, with family history in same. BB play was slow and I switched over to DDs. not playing them as well and BBs that can tank & brawl, but loved the play style!! then came the great nerf, and I played BBs till I got the kurfurst. sort of a BB player by default.

 

when I make the supreme effort to use some intelligence and discipline the first 5 minutes of the battle in my kurfurst, then assess the map and move where needed or it looks the most promising, will last a lot longer in the battle, and typically have more to show for it at the end. including a survival or two, but not as much as I hoped!! I do like to brawl, and the kurfs 2ndaries are good for this. trying IJN BBs, and actually enjoy the sniping, but struggling overall with the lack of armor and team mates harassing me to get into the battle, charge and get sunk instead of chipping away from long range.

 

end result of trying to adjust my personality and play style to what works is aggravated frustration after a few battles, particularly if they are the all too frequent blowout losses. and in the end, I prefer DD play style. it does not feel like work, I get enough of that.

 

just now, I completed 108 battles in the yugumo. this was done solely in order to collect the XP and credits to buy the shimakaze. this makes it the ship I played the most battles in. of those 108 battles, I hated, loathed and despised 90 of them. the rest were close, intense, and I had a lot of fun!! anticipating the shima will have the same steep learning curve of all the IJN DDs, but have already been watching all the outdated, old pre-nerf videos and checking out the stuff in the forum here.

 

will attempt a balance between playing the kurfust and shima, and see where it goes. am aware that there are a lot of good players suggesting specialization in one ship, and I may yet try that, but want to decide after checking them both out significantly. plus will consider returning to play at lower Tiers, if it's really no fun in T10. or possibly trying out the Subs that will be released soon!!

 

this would all be a lot easier to deal with if I was half as good at this game as I was in world of Warcraft. was repeatedly accused of cheating, buying leveling & arena equipment, and ganking. found a toon that matched my personality, did not have to adjust anything for the game mechanics, and there were no RNG generated bad days to blame, so I didn't get into that habit. they wrecked that game in order to cater to young, spoiled players. it got too easy.

 

but i'm way off subject here, sorry. let me finish with this: dear  Rngod, please find a good home for the yugumo. she was awful to me, but I hope a home is found in which she will treat her new master with joy, and help grow coral half as good as she has for me. :oD


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and_den #227 Posted 27 April 2017 - 04:39 AM

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I appreciate the post....but if you're playing just to have a better winrate - you're doing it wrong.

 

I have good games and i have bad games...i strive to win ever single game i play but there are

factors even i cannot control.

 

I cannot control that my teams wont go full mental.  I cannot control that when i aim at a broadside

target the server shifts my sights and i don't register a hit.  I know being on the East coast that people

on the West Coast have it better server wise

 

I hid my stats because I didnt want to become like I was in WoT.  Always striving to have 55% or bette winrate and high WN8.

I laugh at the people who run to check my stats.  



nina_blain_73 #228 Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:42 PM

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View Postnot_acceptable, on 27 April 2017 - 02:04 AM, said:

 

 

will attempt a balance between playing the kurfust and shima, and see where it goes. am aware that there are a lot of good players suggesting specialization in one ship, and I may yet try that, but want to decide after checking them both out significantly. plus will consider returning to play at lower Tiers, if it's really no fun in T10. or possibly trying out the Subs that will be released soon!!

Read both your post and while not having your life experiences find that our play is very similar.

I selected this part of your last post because this was a game changer for me.

I have a lot of ships.... and i play a lot of them jumping from ship to ship type to type and quite frankly I sucked.

Then I read LWM's original post

I chose one of each type ship and for a couple of weeks played just those two (didn't play cruisers at all back then) and after a week I saw not only an improvement in how good i was playing but my win rate went up. Knowing your ship what it can do and more importantly not do is a big part of being able to make a difference in a match. recently I went back to my hop skip and jump play style and boy did i suck again so I have gone back to the play one ship and already that is putting me back on course.

In a nut shell what i am saying is pick that boat that you enjoy the most or want to grind on and play that one ship. you will find as i did that you will play better and your teams will win more

it's synergy


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