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First Impressions: USS Kidd (Flamu video)

USS Kidd USN DD First Impression

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Sakuzhi #21 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:13 PM

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View PostCobraclutch, on 19 May 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

 

Most USN DD's do not take AFT, some take BFT but its not a sure thing. Especially with SE/SI and DE all being in the same row. 

 

Remember more range on US DD's is a huge minus now, you want to keep your max range as low as possible. Hence why many players are selling the upgraded FCS for the stock one. 

 

For detection reasons now a days?

 

And whoever Suggested that the Akisuki needs more buffs needs to realize that it's one of the most over-performing DDs in the game currently.

 

Stop being greedy


Edited by Sakuzhi, 19 May 2017 - 04:14 PM.

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Cobraclutch #22 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:17 PM

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View PostKitsunelegend, on 19 May 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

This is flamu. Anything he says, I refuse to listen to cause he's a massive D-bag.

 

As for the Kidd....she's a bloody USN DD ffs! Shes not supposed to have awesome torps! Shes a gun boat! A GUN BOAT! A BOAT WITH GUNS! And they're AWESOME guns at that! Set her up for anti-DD operations and she'll sing a golden song.

 

Bloody hell people.... :fishpalm:

 

 

As a side note, I will be buying this ship the MOMENT it comes out. I love my Sims, and have been slowly grinding my way up the USN DD line recently, for the sole purpose of getting the Fletcher at tier 9. Having a dedicated tier 8 DD captain trainer will be AWESOME.

 

A USN DD is not a gun boat. 

 

Its a support ship first and fore most. The number 1 reason why US DD's are brought into competitive matches is due to smoke / DF AA . 

 

US DD's are multi purpose ships that can fit into any role "admirably" 

 

It can use its guns well, but they are short range with a bad fire chance. German DD's and VMF DD's are much better gun boats then US DD's. 

 

it can use its torpedoes well, but they are low damage and slow (at lower tier) and at Tier X they have extremely long reload. German DD's (because of that beastly reload)  and IJN DD's (speed , damage and no of torpedoes)  have better torpedoes IMO. 

 

Can they be decent gun boats? sure.. But they aren't  pure gun boats.

 

Can they be decent torpedo boats? sure.. but they aren't pure torpedo boats. 

 

Can they be great support ships? Yes, this is something no other class brings to the table. 

 

Coupled with the fact that the Benson C hull has a much better rudder shift then the Kidd, with double the torpedo armament. I would personally take Benson C hull 10/10 over kidd in both randoms (especially in randoms) and in competition. 

View PostSakuzhi, on 19 May 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

 

For detection reasons now a days?

 

And whoever Suggested that the Akisuki needs more buffs needs to realize that it's one of the most over-performing DDs in the game currently.

 

Stop being greedy

 

Yea exactly, it may not seem like much but a 1km or 2 km different on max bloom can make a big different in certain situations. 

 


Edited by Cobraclutch, 19 May 2017 - 04:18 PM.


KaptainKaybe #23 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:21 PM

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If I stopped listening to community contributors that were excessively arrogant, that would be a whole lot more of them than just Flamu. The only thing I care about is how well they know their stuff. Flamu may be a lot of things, but an idiot is not one of them. I feel as if it's become 'trendy' to dump on him in these forums as of late. Anytime someone quotes him, there's always at least one or two who's sole comment is how much they hate him and refuse to listen to him.

 

As for Kidd vs C-hull Benson ... I was actually debating this myself. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now to compare the AA suites of both of them, so someone else may want to answer this one. That being said, I do feel the loss of half it's torpedo armament is a steep tradeoff. Although one thing could balance it out: give Kidd Fletcher's torps instead of Benson's.



Cobraclutch #24 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

If I stopped listening to community contributors that were excessively arrogant, that would be a whole lot more of them than just Flamu. The only thing I care about is how well they know their stuff. Flamu may be a lot of things, but an idiot is not one of them. I feel as if it's become 'trendy' to dump on him in these forums as of late. Anytime someone quotes him, there's always at least one or two who's sole comment is how much they hate him and refuse to listen to him.

 

As for Kidd vs C-hull Benson ... I was actually debating this myself. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now to compare the AA suites of both of them, so someone else may want to answer this one. That being said, I do feel the loss of half it's torpedo armament is a steep tradeoff. Although one thing could balance it out: give Kidd Fletcher's torps instead of Benson's.

 

 

I think the most annoying part is the Kidd gets a worse rudder shift then the benson C hull.. 

 

All this to say I hope they buff her. She makes a horrible captain trainer for any USN DD captain not specced into AA..  AFAIK the Sims is a better trainer ATM then the Kidd due to the xp bonus and being a more traditional USN DD. 


Edited by Cobraclutch, 19 May 2017 - 04:30 PM.


landcollector #25 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:38 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

As for Kidd vs C-hull Benson ... I was actually debating this myself. Unfortunately, I'm not home right now to compare the AA suites of both of them, so someone else may want to answer this one.

 

C Hull Benson's AA Suite-

4x1 20mm for ~14 DPS @ 2.0 km

2x2 40mm for ~23 DPS @ 3.5 km

4x1 127mm for ~43 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~80
 

Kidd's AA Suite

6x2 20mm for ~37 DPS @ 2.0 km

3x2 + 2x4 40mm for ~66 DPS @ 3.5 km

5x1 127mm for ~54 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~157
 

Interestingly, Gearing's AA Suite

12x1 20mm for ~43 DPS @ 2.0 km

2x2 + 2x4 40mm for ~55 DPS @ 3.5 km

3x2 127mm for ~45 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~143


 

So, as it stands, Kidd has slightly better-than-Gearing levels of base AA in a T8 platform.

 

 


Edited by landcollector, 19 May 2017 - 04:40 PM.


Cobraclutch #26 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:42 PM

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View Postlandcollector, on 19 May 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

 

C Hull Benson's AA Suite-

4x1 20mm for ~14 DPS @ 2.0 km

2x2 40mm for ~23 DPS @ 3.5 km

4x1 127mm for ~43 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~80
 

Kidd's AA Suite

6x2 20mm for ~37 DPS @ 2.0 km

3x2 + 2x4 40mm for ~66 DPS @ 3.5 km

5x1 127mm for ~54 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~157
 

Interestingly, Gearing's AA Suite

12x1 20mm for ~43 DPS @ 2.0 km

2x2 + 2x4 40mm for ~55 DPS @ 3.5 km

3x2 127mm for ~45 DPS @ 5.0 km

Total DPS: ~143


 

So, as it stands, Kidd has slightly better-than-Gearing levels of base AA in a T8 platform.

 

 

 

Which would make sense cause the Fletcher has a better AA suite then the Gearing as well. 

landcollector #27 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:43 PM

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View PostCobraclutch, on 19 May 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

 

Which would make sense cause the Fletcher has a better AA suite then the Gearing as well.

 

Well, not quite.  Top hull Fletcher has a total AA DPS of around 136.

KaptainKaybe #28 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:45 PM

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View PostCobraclutch, on 19 May 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

 

I think the most annoying part is the Kidd gets a worse rudder shift then the benson C hull.. 

 

All this to say I hope they buff her. She makes a horrible captain trainer for any USN DD captain not specced into AA..  AFAIK the Sims is a better trainer ATM then the Kidd due to the xp bonus and being a more traditional USN DD. 

 

XP bonus? What special XP bonus does the Sims have that other's don't?

 

Sims is fun to play with, but honestly, it's been power creeped to sh*t. At tier 7, it has four guns and really horrid torpedoes. Pretty much every other DD at that tier can out-DPS it by a wide margin. Sims only saving grace is her ridiculously awesome agility for DD on DD brawling. But Sims needs serious buffing overall.



KaptainKaybe #29 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:49 PM

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Incidentally, does Kidd have regular Defensive Fire? Wargaming *does* tweak consumables from time to time to be stronger or weaker than the average.

landcollector #30 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:53 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

Incidentally, does Kidd have regular Defensive Fire? Wargaming *does* tweak consumables from time to time to be stronger or weaker than the average.

 

Seems to be the standard DD-grade Defensive Fire consumable.

ForgMaxtor #31 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:02 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

 

XP bonus? What special XP bonus does the Sims have that other's don't?

 

Sims is fun to play with, but honestly, it's been power creeped to sh*t. At tier 7, it has four guns and really horrid torpedoes. Pretty much every other DD at that tier can out-DPS it by a wide margin. Sims only saving grace is her ridiculously awesome agility for DD on DD brawling. But Sims needs serious buffing overall.

 

Not confirmed by WG, but numerous CCs, (including Flamu), have noted that the Sims seems to consistently earn significantly more base XP for a given battle performance than other T7 DDs.  Theory is that Sims has some sort of hidden XP bonus.  My own subjective experience playing the ship does support this.

 

This was one of the reasons she was so popular in the last Ranked season; if you lost a Ranked game playing the Sims, chances were very good that you will still be top XP earner on your team and therefore not lose a star.

 

Is for the rest, I certainly don't consider her OP, but I also do not have trouble achieving a decent WR in the Sims.  I wouldn't mind a tweak or two as I enjoy playing her, but I do not consider her dramatically UP.

 

 


Edited by ForgMaxtor, 19 May 2017 - 05:07 PM.


KaptainKaybe #32 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:07 PM

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View PostForgMaxtor, on 19 May 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

 

Not confirmed by WG, but numerous CCs, (including Flamu), have noted that the Sims seems to consistently earn significantly more base XP for a given battle performance than other T7 DDs.  Theory is that Sims has some sort of hidden XP bonus.  My own subjective experience playing the ship does support this.

 

This was one of the reasons she was so popular in the last Ranked season; if you lost a Ranked game playing the Sims, chances were very good that you will still be top XP earner on your team and therefore not lose a star.

 

Is for the rest, I certainly don't consider her OP, but I also do not have trouble achieving a decent WR in the Sims.  I wouldn't mind a tweak or two as I enjoy playing her, but I certainly don't consider her dramatically UP.

 

 

 

Mmmm, I'm personally thinking confirmation bias. Fact of the matter is that Sims is probably the single best DD at that tier for base capping due to the fact that her agility gives her a tremendous edge when it comes to DD duels. She's also very fast. So people using her in ranked probably score a large amount of capping XP which is always very rewarding in terms of base xp.

 

I still think she needs a buff, mind you. Maybe up her long range torps to be a bit faster and more damaging. As it stands, her long range torps are fairly useless at anything other than being a nuisance. And her close range torps are only useful for ambushing or DD dueling.



ForgMaxtor #33 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:15 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

 

Mmmm, I'm personally thinking confirmation bias...

 

That's what I thought too until I watched the CC videos.  As mentioned, Flamu did one, and I think e.g., Notser and Zoup have done vids analyzing this topic as well.  It's hard to know for sure because you can't play a game in the Sims and then compare base XP to an absolutely identical game in another T7 DD, but it certainly does seem like something is going on there.

 

Worth noting that *all* ships have a base XP modifier, and WG doesn't exactly broadcast this stat openly.  So it's not implausible that Sims' XP modifier is somewhat higher than other ships'



HazeGrayUnderway #34 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:17 PM

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View PostAce_04, on 19 May 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

Are Fletcher-clones going to be following the copy-and-paste Myoko trend?

 

You talking about the ARP Myokos?  Those are essentially Myoko without IJN captain spec and no camo slot, but otherwise they are still identically the same combat wise and still at Tier VII with the original Myoko.

 

Kidd is different.  A Fletcher giving up a set of valuable torpedoes, which is IMO what has propped up her success for so long, and then getting down tiered.  But at Tier VIII you still have a more rounded Benson... Good guns and a good, healthy set of torpedoes.  Hell, ROCN Lo Yang looks to be a better option.

 

What's Kidd going to do?  Defensive Fire a Battleship or Destroyer to death?


Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 19 May 2017 - 05:17 PM.


Slimeball91 #35 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:20 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Incidentally, does Kidd have regular Defensive Fire? Wargaming *does* tweak consumables from time to time to be stronger or weaker than the average.

 

Seems it should get unlimited charges like the Atlanta if you people to even consider buying the Kidd.  Now that I mention the Atlanta, look at what it brings to the table compared to the Kidd. 

 

Atlanta

Pros:

- Tier for tier one of the best AA ships in the game

- Arguably the best DD hunter in the game

- Radar and hydro

- Crazy DPM

Cons:

- Super AP magnet, making her very challenging to play

 

Kidd

Pros:

- Decent AA if fully spec'ed

Cons:

- Gives up a set or torps

 

I don't know that we should compare such different ships but for the sake of discussion, why not.  The Atlanta has something unique to offer, and a lot of fun consumables.  Sure she's tough to play and some people like that about her.  The Kidd, its a basic DD, minus a set of torps for AA.  With the current meta of low CV population people won't give up one gun on the C hull "upgrade" as is, why would you give up a set of torps?  Seriously, in terms of value, you get more for your money in a unique ship like the Atlanta.  Since we already have the Sims as a decent trainer and credit generator the Kidd isn't going to fill that role.  If I'm going to fork over my money for a T8 premium it better bring something pretty good to the table.  I'm not seeing that, but maybe it's too early to say.      

 

 



Cobraclutch #36 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:25 PM

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View PostSlimeball91, on 19 May 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

 

 

 

 

The biggest problem is that we need a Tier 8 USN DD for crew training. 

 

What Kidd does is it forces you to either

 

A. Be at a disadvantage in terms of AA due to your USN DD captain not being AA specced. 

 

B. Retrain your captain when shes on Kidd (Defeats the purpose) 

 

C. Have a USN DD captain used exclusively for USN DD AA duty 

 

 

The biggest thing about having a premium is captain training and coin. 

 

The Kidd is really hard to justify buying due to all my USN Captains being focused for either support, torpedoes or guns. 

 

Might as well save the 60-70$ CAD and just stick with a Sims, at least her technical aspects mesh well with a Standard USN DD captain.. 



Slimeball91 #37 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:37 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

 

XP bonus? What special XP bonus does the Sims have that other's don't?

 

Sims is fun to play with, but honestly, it's been power creeped to sh*t. At tier 7, it has four guns and really horrid torpedoes. Pretty much every other DD at that tier can out-DPS it by a wide margin. Sims only saving grace is her ridiculously awesome agility for DD on DD brawling. But Sims needs serious buffing overall.

 

When you look at the DPM of the Sims (72) it is very close to the  A and B hull Mahan (75).  When you add in the speed and agility of the Sims it is an under-appreciated premium.  Real or perceived, the XP bonus is icing on the cake.  The torps need some help.

 



KaptainKaybe #38 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:39 PM

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View PostSlimeball91, on 19 May 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

 

When you look at the DPM of the Sims (72) it is very close to the  A and B hull Mahan (75).  When you add in the speed and agility of the Sims it is an under-appreciated premium.  Real or perceived, the XP bonus is icing on the cake.  The torps need some help.

 

 

Pardon ... I was indeed taking torpedoes into account. Her main battery is quite good for her tier.

Cobraclutch #39 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:43 PM

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View Postlandcollector, on 19 May 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

 

Well, not quite.  Top hull Fletcher has a total AA DPS of around 136.

 

 

I should of been more specific sorry. 

 

The Fletcher has better long range DP AA then the Gearing. Which makes no sense considering the Gearing has an extra Barrel. 

 

Basically when it comes to Manual AA and DF , Fletcher (and now Kidd) have better DPS then the Gearing. 

 

Flecher
 
AA NAME: 127 mm/38 Mk30 mod. 0
shim.gifNumber of Guns: 5
shim.gifFiring range: 5 km
shim.gifCaliber: 127 mm
shim.gifAverage DPS: 53
 
 
Gearing
 
AA NAME: 127 mm/38 Mk38 mod. 0
shim.gifNumber of Guns: 3
shim.gifFiring range: 5 km
shim.gifCaliber: 127 mm
shim.gifAverage DPS: 45
 
 
 


Cobraclutch #40 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:51 PM

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Here is a comparison of the Kidd (left) Benson (middle) Fletcher (Right) 

 


Edited by Cobraclutch, 19 May 2017 - 05:54 PM.





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