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First Impressions: USS Kidd (Flamu video)

USS Kidd USN DD First Impression

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Slimeball91 #1 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:06 PM

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Flamu might not be everyone's favorite, still, I think he sums up the Kidd fairly well. 

Spoiler

 

I posted in the a Kidd thread a few weeks back that I wasn't too keen on the idea of a DD giving up a set of torps for AA.  To me you lose your alpha and gain fair to mediocre AA, this is a net gain for the enemy BBs, not you.  If you spec for AA you seem to gain decent AA but you lose a lot of other valuable captain skills.  Factoring in all the skills and potential alpha you give up for AA, I just can't see this being worth a T8 premium price tag.  

 

Frankly, I think a strong argument could be made to give all T7 and up USN and possibly IJN, DDs defensive AA in its own slot.  DDs AA is weak, at best it might be fair at shooting down spotter planes, but still be pretty weak against CV attacks.  What do you guys think?  Id Kidd a good DD model or do you like the idea of all US and IJN DDs having DF as a freebie?   



TheStarSlayer #2 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:25 PM

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Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.

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m373x #3 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:30 PM

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You know that this ship will undergo changes before release, possibly major changes. Anyways, I am posting just to say that Flamu is bae.

Ace_04 #4 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:35 PM

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Are Fletcher-clones going to be following the copy-and-paste Myoko trend?

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Cobraclutch #5 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:36 PM

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As a solo player, eagerly awaiting a Tier 8 USN DD. 

 

To say the Kidd is disappointing is an understatement .



MrDeaf #6 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:36 PM

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View PostTheStarSlayer, on 19 May 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.

 

Pretty sure subs causes something like 55% of ship losses to the IJN/IJNA.

 

TRB is an IJN only feature and should remain that way. Other nations didn't carry a quick torpedo reloading device, nor did many of them even have spare torps.

 

View PostAce_04, on 19 May 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

Are Fletcher-clones going to be following the copy-and-paste Myoko trend?

 

Well, they were only the most constructed warship of WW2.

 

There's also a Fletcher-class that carried a Kingfisher seaplane.


Edited by MrDeaf, 19 May 2017 - 02:37 PM.

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Sakuzhi #7 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:36 PM

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View PostSlimeball91, on 19 May 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

If you spec for AA you seem to gain decent AA but you lose a lot of other valuable captain skills.  Factoring in all the skills and potential alpha you give up for AA, I just can't see this being worth a T8 premium price tag.  

 

mm that isn't exactly true given that the AA 'spec' is the same as normal DD build given that 'most' of it is just BFT and AFT, the only other thing you could do is the Manual-AA which is mostly not that great unless you are named Altanta.

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Cobraclutch #8 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:40 PM

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View PostSakuzhi, on 19 May 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

 

mm that isn't exactly true given that the AA 'spec' is the same as normal DD build given that 'most' of it is just BFT and AFT, the only other thing you could do is the Manual-AA which is mostly not that great unless you are named Altanta.

 

Most USN DD's do not take AFT, some take BFT but its not a sure thing. Especially with SE/SI and DE all being in the same row. 

 

Remember more range on US DD's is a huge minus now, you want to keep your max range as low as possible. Hence why many players are selling the upgraded FCS for the stock one. 


Edited by Cobraclutch, 19 May 2017 - 02:40 PM.


goldeagle1123 #9 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:51 PM

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View PostAce_04, on 19 May 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

Are Fletcher-clones going to be following the copy-and-paste Myoko trend?

 

I mean to be fair it was the most produced class of warship, ever.

 

On a sidenote though, give Akizuki DF.


 

 

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goldeagle1123 #10 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:53 PM

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View PostTheStarSlayer, on 19 May 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.

 

Akizuki still was an AA monster for a DD, it deserves DF if they're going to give Kidd DF. As for the main IJN DD line, they should get the Shiratsuyu's 5 second torp reload booster in it's own slot. That would make them competitive.

 

 

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Cobraclutch #11 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:57 PM

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View Postgoldeagle1123, on 19 May 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

 

Akizuki still was an AA monster for a DD, it deserves DF if they're going to give Kidd DF. As for the main IJN DD line, they should get the Shiratsuyu's 5 second torp reload booster in it's own slot. That would make them competitive.

 

I personally think you give the Kidd mk 16's instead of the 15 and you would make her much better.

 

decrease her soft stats like Rudder shift and turning circle to the same as fletcher. Keep HP as is, and you have a good ship that is equal to the benson. 

 

Having 1 more gun and DF is not worth loosing half your torpedo loadout , I do not see why you would take this over a C hull benson even in competition. 



goldeagle1123 #12 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:09 PM

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View PostCobraclutch, on 19 May 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

 

I personally think you give the Kidd mk 16's instead of the 15 and you would make her much better.

 

decrease her soft stats like Rudder shift and turning circle to the same as fletcher. Keep HP as is, and you have a good ship that is equal to the benson. 

 

Having 1 more gun and DF is not worth loosing half your torpedo loadout , I do not see why you would take this over a C hull benson even in competition. 

 

It should absolutely demand losing half your torpedoes. DF is an extremely powerful consumable on DDs, and should not be given lightly. The the C hull Benson, and Lo Yang both have to lose an entire gun just to get access to it. 

 

 

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ForgMaxtor #13 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:15 PM

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View PostMrDeaf, on 19 May 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

 

Pretty sure subs causes something like 55% of ship losses to the IJN/IJNA.

 

Overall ship losses, yes.  Looking at DDs specifically the numbers are a little different.  Roughly 30% of IJN all DDs lost in WWII were lost to subs.  For comparison, around 40% were lost to air attack.

 

There is some uncertainty in the numbers.  For starters, it's a bit subjective how you count some loses -- e.g., how do you count a DD that was crippled by a mine and then finished off by air attack? You also need to decide whether to include losses of the older DDs the IJN had reclassified as "Patrol Boats" by the start of WWII.

 

Regardless, It's certain that the IJN lost somewhat more DDs to air attack than to submarines.  It's also clear that IJN DD losses to submarine and air attack combined vastly outnumber losses to all other causes.  For example, only about 10% of IJN DD losses in the war were to surface action, a statistic which in hindsight illuminates what a mistake it was for the IJN to optimize their DD designs for surface action, at the cost of ASW and AA capability.



Umikami #14 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:18 PM

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View PostTheStarSlayer, on 19 May 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

Historically IJN DD AA was pretty crap, IIRC air attack was the number one killer of IJN Cans.  The 25mm was not a good weapon system and the IJN lacked a good mid sized AA piece like the Bofors.  I'd personally prefer the 30 second torpedo reload booster in an extra consumable slot instead.

 

Historically, wasn't Kidd a USN DD?

KaptainKaybe #15 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:26 PM

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So here's the thing: I have zero problems with making AA or anti-CV focused ships. I mean, why not? There are plenty of examples of ships that are better against one class than another. Case in point: German BBs tear apart destroyers, while USN BBs have scary scary anti-air. Hell, look at Texas ... amazing close range AA for her tier, but utterly vulnerable to DDs creeping up on them.

 

The actual problem is the consistent lack of CVs in Random matches. Ships who's 'thing' is AA are considered weak in the game currently due to the fact that they are balanced with an enemy in mind that is no show most of the time. In fact, it's common practice for divisions to include a CV when they want to have a highly AA specced ships in the match ... just to make sure that there's an enemy CV in that match.

 

If and when the CV rework happens (I'm starting to think this just a myth now), and assuming this will make CVs popular enough to show up in every game the same way the other classes do, then A LOT of balance issues will resolve themselves. And ships like the USS Kidd will shine.

 

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Cpt_RickSchwifty #16 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:30 PM

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While it may be disappointing to many people, this ship is a great addition to the game. Its a real escort craft it will make a wonderful CV baby sitter as it is able to defend agaisnt other DDs and screen incoming CV strikes. 

 

Im a fan even if I wont be using one. Good to see WG find a niche and fill it in an efficient way. Now if we could just get random battles player count lowered. WoWs is such a better game when things get more focused. 


Edited by Cpt_RickSchwifty, 19 May 2017 - 03:31 PM.

 

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Cobraclutch #17 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:34 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 19 May 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

So here's the thing: I have zero problems with making AA or anti-CV focused ships. I mean, why not? There are plenty of examples of ships that are better against one class than another. Case in point: German BBs tear apart destroyers, while USN BBs have scary scary anti-air. Hell, look at Texas ... amazing close range AA for her tier, but utterly vulnerable to DDs creeping up on them.

 

The actual problem is the consistent lack of CVs in Random matches. Ships who's 'thing' is AA are considered weak in the game currently due to the fact that they are balanced with an enemy in mind that is no show most of the time. In fact, it's common practice for divisions to include a CV when they want to have a highly AA specced ships in the match ... just to make sure that there's an enemy CV in that match.

 

If and when the CV rework happens (I'm starting to think this just a myth now), and assuming this will make CVs popular enough to show up in every game the same way the other classes do, then A LOT of balance issues will resolve themselves. And ships like the USS Kidd will shine.

 

Oh and as a footnote, I would like to thank that Essex driver yesterday who felt it wise to send three waves of bombers at my Des Moines. I thank you for all the delicious XP, sir! :D

 

 

So the question you need to ask is this. 

 

If you had the choice between a C hull benson and Kidd. Which would take?

 

Personally I would take the C hull Benson TBH. 

 

1 extra gun is not worth loosing half your torpedo armament, especially in competitive in which its mostly about smoke and launching torpedoes in smoke. 

 

Give me the Benson C hull over Kidd / 5 gun Benson B hull any day of the week. 

 

View PostCpt_RickSchwifty, on 19 May 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

While it may be disappointing to many people, this ship is a great addition to the game. Its a real escort craft it will make a wonderful CV baby sitter as it is able to defend agaisnt other DDs and screen incoming CV strikes. 

 

Im a fan even if I wont be using one. Good to see WG find a niche and fill it in an efficient way. Now if we could just get random battles player count lowered. WoWs is such a better game when things get more focused. 

 

 

That ship exists, its a Benson C hull and its better then the Kidd. 

 

Escorting CV's, is a huge waste of a DD imo.  Especially considering a smart CV player will just pull away the moment DF is activated wait the 25 seconds and re engage making the DD's AA pretty mute. 

 


Edited by Cobraclutch, 19 May 2017 - 03:38 PM.


Spyde #18 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:59 PM

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View Postgoldeagle1123, on 19 May 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

It should absolutely demand losing half your torpedoes. DF is an extremely powerful consumable on DDs, and should not be given lightly. The the C hull Benson, and Lo Yang both have to lose an entire gun just to get access to it. 

 

Losing 1 gun is a night and day difference in losing half your torps.

 

Zero point in this ship if it has 1 launcher + Def AA   vs a Benson with 2x launcher -1 gun  + def AA


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Cobraclutch #19 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:02 PM

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View PostSpyde, on 19 May 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

 

Losing 1 gun is a night and day difference in losing half your torps.

 

Zero point in this ship if it has 1 launcher + Def AA   vs a Benson with 2x launcher -1 gun  + def AA

 

Which is amplified by the fact that the 1 launcher has the mk 15's from the benson, not the 16's from the fletcher...

Kitsunelegend #20 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:09 PM

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This is flamu. Anything he says, I refuse to listen to cause he's a massive D-bag.

 

As for the Kidd....she's a bloody USN DD ffs! Shes not supposed to have awesome torps! Shes a gun boat! A GUN BOAT! A BOAT WITH GUNS! And they're AWESOME guns at that! Set her up for anti-DD operations and she'll sing a golden song.

 

Bloody hell people.... :fishpalm:

 

 

As a side note, I will be buying this ship the MOMENT it comes out. I love my Sims, and have been slowly grinding my way up the USN DD line recently, for the sole purpose of getting the Fletcher at tier 9. Having a dedicated tier 8 DD captain trainer will be AWESOME.


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