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Maybe DD roles have changed - what do you think?

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Herr_Reitz #1 Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:45 PM

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I've played enough DD missions... gosh... would you believe over 2300!!!! Yowsers... And yet to this very day I get really irritated about the way some - perhaps a lot? - of people are playing DDs in the mid to upper tiers. 

 

They're hiding. Behind me in my battleship or cruiser. It's happening more and more. I called someone out who was riding along my Tirpitz, at the end of the match in a Trashcan. "I was providing air support for you." What? WHAT?! 

 

Never asked for it. Don't want it, don't need it. What I do need/want/desire is for destroyers to go destroy things. <sigh> Yes it sounds like a vent/rant/rage, but seriously folks, did a memo for DD tactics get released and I wasn't on the mailing list? 



The_first_harbinger #2 Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:47 PM

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DD roles haven't changed. They way newbies and those simply don't get it play haven't changed either.
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iEaTDaGrudge #3 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:02 PM

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:D

Ace_04 #4 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:18 PM

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DD's haven't changed.  But fear of radar and hydro has made some players a little more tepid getting too close.

 

In defense of the Tashkent, it doesn't play like a normal stealthy DD.  It's better for it to stay at range and burn things down.  Tashkents typically get wrecked when they get too close, due to their large size.


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Jnobsir #5 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:22 PM

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Capping has a much smaller reward for DD's now, with a much increased risk. As a result the temptation to hang farther back is much greater.

 

Also fear of getting cross dropped by high tier IJN CVs can lead to some extremely passive DD play. When the enemy CV has the ability to delete you at will, with no way of countering it, you tend to end up hugging a AA CA/CL for most of the round. 

 

 

 


 

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Herr_Reitz #6 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:51 PM

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View PostiEaTDaGrudge, on 19 May 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

:D

 

WHERE have you been? Wow... haven't seen a post/comment from you in a long while. 

Raven114 #7 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:56 PM

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In high tiers the minute you cross into a cap at the beginning of a match you are lit up like a Christmas tree and you are taking rounds from everywhere. If your lucky you can survive. If you pop Smoke the torpedoes fly at you from every direction. So maybe hanging with the fleet is not a bad idea.:look:

Cobraclutch #8 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:53 PM

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DD's rolls have changed, especially inter class. 

 

USN DD - Support ship first and foremost, adept at contesting caps. Knife fighting advantage and good torpedoes hampered by high reloads at Tier X. Only ship that can really survive a cross drop. 

 

KM DD - Ambush predator,  Strong at contesting caps. Excellent torpedoes and guns very balanced weapon set. 

 

VMF DD - Damage class, pure unadulterated weapon platform. Designed to take hits and dish them. This is the DPM destroyer of your dreams. 

 

IJN DD - Assassin / scout class , high torpedo broadside with good scouting abilities. 

 

All DD's are not meant to "destroy" . Each class is tuned towards different facets of the game.  Can they all be the standard "Destroyer role of counter BB's? " 

 

Short answer: Yes

 

Long answer : No, for example a  USN DD has the choice between supporting a friendly BB taking friendly fire / about to get target by CV vs going on the flank againts a lone BB  and trying to destroy it. 

 

I hope for your teams sake you decided with former rather then the later.. 



Canadatron #9 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:36 PM

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Another thing to keep in mind that might not be obvious to people that don't frequent Destroyers is that as a person who plays "Anti-DD" Destroyers, the lack of Destroyers in matches is a real detriment to my game.

 

I play this nutty game for knife fights generally, but if you're the only DD you're one sad lonely Destroyerer.

 

The class has changed somewhat, still capable but the amount of mistakes you can make per game has steadily decreased. I'm still playing when I can, but it's a lot less frequent.


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Pete_Darling #10 Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:57 PM

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View PostHerr_Reitz, on 19 May 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

I've played enough DD missions... gosh... would you believe over 2300!!!! Yowsers... And yet to this very day I get really irritated about the way some - perhaps a lot? - of people are playing DDs in the mid to upper tiers. 

 

They're hiding. Behind me in my battleship or cruiser. It's happening more and more. I called someone out who was riding along my Tirpitz, at the end of the match in a Trashcan. "I was providing air support for you." What? WHAT?! 

 

Never asked for it. Don't want it, don't need it. What I do need/want/desire is for destroyers to go destroy things. <sigh> Yes it sounds like a vent/rant/rage, but seriously folks, did a memo for DD tactics get released and I wasn't on the mailing list? 

 

Playing mostly DD's I'm also seeing other DD's that are more worried about saving their skin than helping the team. I wouldn't say it's a lot different than it used to be but it did get worse right after stealth fire removal. I think more and more people will start getting used to all of the little changes and we will see better play on average. 

 

I think the worst thing is players in any ship that can't or don't read the battle. When I push in with my DD I would hope a Cruiser would be in tow but usually they are hugging the BB's not support anyone else while the BB's are firing at max range and not doing too much. It doesn't happen every battle but you can tell in the first 5 minutes if you are going to win or lose. I'm not big on Chat as my Mom taught me not to text and drive, it's dangerous. 


 


Herr_Reitz #11 Posted 20 May 2017 - 03:19 AM

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I typically - when in a cruiser - will follow my closest DDs on their way. I hang back 4 to 6 km behind them. Let's them have squiggle room and doesn't blow their use of their own concealment. If they head to cap I will attempt to kill any red DDs going for them. If they engage in a close fight of course I have to hold my fire. 

 

My own DD play these days is - by choice - restricted to my Kami R as she pretty much plays as she always has played. My current hi-point commander has RDF for the fun of it. I'm finding it sort of dulls your senses a bit... you can rely too much on it, "chasing the needle" instead of reading the map. Too bad there's no way to switch it on and off. 

 

I guess I'm going to have to adjust to having DDs nearby as it does seem that's where they're going to be for now. I like them out scouting, using their concealment but alas, it will be what it will be. 



Camo68 #12 Posted 20 May 2017 - 04:28 AM

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I agree with op's sentiments,, I am a DD main but in the last month I've been grinding up some cruisers.  And the extremely passive nature of DD play I have seen is simply mind blowing. No contesting of caps, no targetting other DDS, staying with BBs in the back, launching torps at max range.

 

 If you dont do damage or take objectives you dont get xp / credits, so why on earth gimp your own game and while doing so your teams is beyond me.

 

Radar, hydro, CVs, RPF.......... not reasons to tuck tail and run just obstacles to be dealt with!

 

Want hide up the back, sail a BB!

 


 

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Seamus_44 #13 Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:59 AM

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Radar and the detectability bloom when firing guns has changed tactics. IJN stealth and work caps then hide and kill. My USN play is the same; cap if at all possible, then hunt-mostly with fish and look for enemy dds to knife fight. RU is mostly burn them down at 10Km plus and limit their ability to cap and hold.
I was accused yesterday of "hiding" behind a BB. In reality I had just chased a cruiser out of a cap, and then seen a BB on the edge of the area. I killed him with torps and was on my way back to the cap. The BB that complained was actually blocking both my return and line of fire, I wanted around him and he and the rocks limited my options.   


MrDeaf #14 Posted 21 May 2017 - 01:17 AM

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The detectability bloom really hurts.

Having to run away to 12km, instead of 9.6km, adds to the time it takes to get turned around again.


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Pete_Darling #15 Posted 22 May 2017 - 01:29 AM

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View PostMrDeaf, on 21 May 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

The detectability bloom really hurts.

Having to run away to 12km, instead of 9.6km, adds to the time it takes to get turned around again.

 

I actually pulled my Yugumo back and went with stock gun range so it was closer to the F3's range. It just feels like I can disengage and not be so far away to reengage. So far it seems to be working for me (gained 4% win rate in the last 10 games) 

 


 


dust340man #16 Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:23 AM

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I was in what I believe was one of the saddest battles I've ever seen this past weekend. On the Fault Line map domination mode our 4 destroyers all went and hid behind islands at the beginning of the battle. The enemy DDs had all 3 caps in about 4 minutes into the battle. I did about 30K damage with my Pensacola before I said screw it and made a suicide run into the B cap to get blown up and get out of the battle/hit the esc button. It just made me sick to sit there and watch what was happening. :facepalm:

 

When I play my DDs I'm always trying to cap, provide smoke cover or stalk those big juicy BBs but I'll take out a DD or cruiser too if the situation presents itself.:playing:


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Pete_Darling #17 Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:50 AM

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View Postdust340man, on 23 May 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

I was in what I believe was one of the saddest battles I've ever seen this past weekend. On the Fault Line map domination mode our 4 destroyers all went and hid behind islands at the beginning of the battle. The enemy DDs had all 3 caps in about 4 minutes into the battle. I did about 30K damage with my Pensacola before I said screw it and made a suicide run into the B cap to get blown up and get out of the battle/hit the esc button. It just made me sick to sit there and watch what was happening. :facepalm:

 

When I play my DDs I'm always trying to cap, provide smoke cover or stalk those big juicy BBs but I'll take out a DD or cruiser too if the situation presents itself.:playing:

 

That's only slightly worse than when we have 3 DD's and I go to a cap ..... the other 2 DD's follow me? I'm yelling NO YOU GUYS GET THE OTHER CAPS!! Yea no, then they pull in and as soon as they hit the boarder they pop smoke, at that point I'm out of here you have fun with the bind incoming fire. 

 


Herr_Reitz #18 Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:56 AM

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Heh heh... well, good but sad to see others confirming my OP... I remember when what we used to call "invisifiring" was yanked (Open Water Stealth Firing or OWSF, right - four words in place of one, that's efficient) and I asked about the "meta" changes. Everyone said wait a few weeks. 

 

Would be interesting for those in the know to check the "game meta" to see if the impact is far deeper than anticipated. Could be we are just the exceptions here, seeing what we see, and not the rule. 



Pete_Darling #19 Posted 24 May 2017 - 04:45 AM

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View PostHerr_Reitz, on 24 May 2017 - 02:56 AM, said:

Heh heh... well, good but sad to see others confirming my OP... I remember when what we used to call "invisifiring" was yanked (Open Water Stealth Firing or OWSF, right - four words in place of one, that's efficient) and I asked about the "meta" changes. Everyone said wait a few weeks. 

 

Would be interesting for those in the know to check the "game meta" to see if the impact is far deeper than anticipated. Could be we are just the exceptions here, seeing what we see, and not the rule. 

 

People need to play for 2 weeks without a premium account, camo, signals all of the modifiers so they realize that the game is still fun without all that. You don't have to Win, you just have to do your best. I've been in losing battles that were so fun. I got in a Mikasa dual that was hilarious, I'm sure he was a player like me (actually chatted "fireworks time, let's not scare the kids too much) it was so fun, and that is how much I think of win or lose. Some player just act like "if my ship gets hurt I have to pay for it", "does State Farm have insurance for my Kagero?"  

 

When it comes down to it for me in my DD's (IJN's) Cap, Spot, Kill, Win (in Domination) in that order. The goal is to Win and you can't do that if you do nothing more than hide. 

   


 






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