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Will Kaga be competitive against Saipan and Hiryu?


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Shokaku_1 #21 Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:35 AM

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View PostSumkum, on 19 May 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

With dogfighting expert Kaga certainly will hold its own against Saipan

Any skilled Saipan player will use strafe instead of just-tagging fighters, AFAIK, dog-fighting expert doesn't help low tier fighters with or against strafing. And Saipan doesn't lose a fighter when doing exit-strafing.



Sumkum #22 Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:36 AM

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The numerical superiority of Kaga's TB will make cross drops against smaller ships ever more terrifying. It is very difficult to do so with a widely dispersed, smaller number that is with Saipan's. Exit stafing seems to only allow an attack on another group...not the fighters you are currently engaged with. Could be wrong of course. I am still yet to do it.

Edited by Sumkum, 20 May 2017 - 01:38 AM.


Shokaku_1 #23 Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:45 AM

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View PostSumkum, on 19 May 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

 Exit stafing seems to only allow an attack on another group...not the fighters you are currently engaged with. Could be wrong of course. I am still yet to do it.

The point of exit strafing is to disengage from a bad fight, in Saipan's case, without any loss of fighters. And Saipan planes are faster so  that it's very difficult for the other player to do a counter strafe to catch the Saipan's strafing fighter squad.



vak_ #24 Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:47 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 20 May 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

You gonna tell me how to play Shimakaze while you're here, like last time?

 

Nah. Unless you want advice from a better Shima player, i.e. yours truly. But I kind of doubt that.



Destroyer_Kiyoshimo #25 Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:50 AM

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View Postvak_, on 19 May 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Nah. Unless you want advice from a better Shima player, i.e. yours truly. But I kind of doubt that.

 

Oh, you un-concealed your stats and the games in Shimakaze are actually showing. Fancy that. You are better in it than I am.

 

But no I don't need advice from someone like you. If I needed to learn how to shove my smug ego into the face of people who aren't as good as me and wait for them to shower me with affection, I'd move to California.

 

Back on topic: None of this addresses my question, and I fail to understand how my number of games in Hiryu has anything to do with "How does Kaga stack up to Saipan assuming equal skill" nor does it explain how "A potato can lose to an expert" answers that question.


Edited by Destroyer_Kiyoshimo, 20 May 2017 - 01:52 AM.

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OscarMike_ #26 Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:17 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 20 May 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

 

Oh, you un-concealed your stats and the games in Shimakaze are actually showing. Fancy that. You are better in it than I am.

 

But no I don't need advice from someone like you. If I needed to learn how to shove my smug ego into the face of people who aren't as good as me and wait for them to shower me with affection, I'd move to California.

 

Back on topic: None of this addresses my question, and I fail to understand how my number of games in Hiryu has anything to do with "How does Kaga stack up to Saipan assuming equal skill" nor does it explain how "A potato can lose to an expert" answers that question.

 

To sum it up, Kaga will do fine vs saipan.

 

Do what all smart IJN CV players do vs US.  Occupy his fighters first, then strike. Oh and btw stay away from his exit strafe too. They will run out of ammo.

 

Its funny though in the forum community how the ONLY good US CV is always complained about? Have I been using the Asain forums all this time?

 

 



TenguBlade #27 Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:33 AM

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View Posthipcanuck, on 19 May 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Im more concerned about the AA punishment Kaga's airgroups will suffer at the hands of Atlanta's, Clevelands and North Carolinas.

 

Every US CV that shows up as a fighter wh#$e is troublesome for IJN CV. However they are never able to totally shut down a decent IJN player, and the Saipan is very vulnerable to a strike from Kaga. Which may be the best way for a Kaga to deal with an enemy CV.

Not as badly as you would think.  Don't forget that Hiryu's torpedo bombers are the same ones that Kaga has.  Kaga will fare better than Hiryu if anything due to having more planes per squad.


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Sumkum #28 Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:33 AM

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View PostShokaku_1, on 20 May 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

The point of exit strafing is to disengage from a bad fight, in Saipan's case, without any loss of fighters. And Saipan planes are faster so  that it's very difficult for the other player to do a counter strafe to catch the Saipan's strafing fighter squad.

 

​I certainly agree with this. 100% spot on. I just find, and this is me personally, that Hiryu's fighters can wreak havoc amongst the tier IX fighters that Saipan has if the dogfighting skill is present. Certainly enough to sink smaller ships with an eight torp cross drop. It seems harder to accomplish this with only 6 and a wider spread. Such is Saipan's handicap. Mind you the 1000lb DBs can sink a DD in one hit...fortune willing. Hey RNG is a part of life! 

Palladia #29 Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:22 PM

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The Kaga will have more strike damage potential,  the Saipan will have more sky damage potential.  Done.  All Dog Fighting expert is going to do is maybe shave off another plane or two in a direct engagement.  Those three tiers in between them aren't just about firepower,  the Vought F4U-4's also have close to 40% more health.  Air Superiority will bring the Kaga's A6M2's up to 57 DPS,  while the Voughts have 70.  Even adding in the additional plane the Kaga will have up on Saipan isn't going to save the Kaga's squadrons.

But take heart,  IJN captains.  She still has some ridiculous saturation with that 24 bomber squadron.  Not to mention extremely fast torpedo's for a CV's as well as a unique and extremely hard to dodge drop pattern.

Ulthwey #30 Posted 20 May 2017 - 11:15 PM

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View Postvak_, on 19 May 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

 

Why do you assume that Kaga will face a Saipan with an inferior AS loadout? You should be considering the worst-case scenario for Kaga, a 2/2 Saipan. Most players (and almost all good ones) run that loadout anyway. 

 

Umm .... HELL NOOO! They do not. Strike Saipan is actually the weaker version of the two. The AS load out is devastating. The overall damage suffers, but thats in exchange for ability to snipe out enemy DDs with the dive bombers. 
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vak_ #31 Posted 20 May 2017 - 11:28 PM

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View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 20 May 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

I don't need advice

 

Of course not, you'd rather stay ignorant and make a fool of yourself by making preposterous claims. To each its own, I guess.

 

View PostUlthwey, on 20 May 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

Umm .... HELL NOOO! They do not. Strike Saipan is actually the weaker version of the two. The AS load out is devastating. The overall damage suffers, but thats in exchange for ability to snipe out enemy DDs with the dive bombers. 

 

1) 2/2 loadout is much better for randoms than 3/1, and all good Saipan players know that

2) DDs can be killed with torpedo bombers just as well. Maybe better.

 


Kancollewuzhere #32 Posted Yesterday, 12:17 AM

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saipan easily wins because of alt disengage. Otherwise it's 50/50. You win dogfight and have harder striking power but get outpaced

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Ulthwey #33 Posted Yesterday, 09:38 AM

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View Postvak_, on 20 May 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

1) 2/2 loadout is much better for randoms than 3/1, and all good Saipan players know that

2) DDs can be killed with torpedo bombers just as well. Maybe better.

 

 

1. No. 2/2 is balanced and it doesn't excel in any one thing. AS gives you air superiority, so you neutralize the enemy CV, easily spot enemy DDs and snipe them with dive bombers.

2. Hell no. If the DD player is braindead, then maybe.


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Battlecruiser_Tiger #34 Posted Yesterday, 09:47 AM

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View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 20 May 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

 

Oh, you un-concealed your stats and the games in Shimakaze are actually showing. Fancy that. You are better in it than I am.

 

But no I don't need advice from someone like you. If I needed to learn how to shove my smug ego into the face of people who aren't as good as me and wait for them to shower me with affection, I'd move to California.

 

Back on topic: None of this addresses my question, and I fail to understand how my number of games in Hiryu has anything to do with "How does Kaga stack up to Saipan assuming equal skill" nor does it explain how "A potato can lose to an expert" answers that question.

 

I have him on ignore for a reason. The guy is just... unwell. 

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BlailBlerg #35 Posted Yesterday, 08:50 PM

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You people are beginning to be a little toxic.  I sense much chicken-strutting and e-preening. 

bacononaboat #36 Posted Yesterday, 09:58 PM

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Pigeon of War himself said that in that case, it's best to send what Kaga fighter squad to lock up one or more Saipan ones and then strafe with a second fighter squad. Yes, that means you'll kill a few of your own but it's an effective tactic to kill off some of those pesky Saipan fighters at least for a little bit

HazeGrayUnderway #37 Posted Yesterday, 11:33 PM

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Kaga sports 2 specs so far:  2/2/1 and 1/1/3.  It's fair to say which is going to be ignored.  Now, with skill being equal, IMO:

 

Kaga vs Any spec of Saipan:  Saipan will win, especially if the 3/0/1 spec is used.  The Saipan player would have to blunder hard to lose the air war with Kaga.  For as effective as Saipan's planes are, she has low reserves, less than even Ranger, Hiryu, and Kaga sports more planes in reserve.  Saipan is not forgiving for bad CV play.

 

Kaga vs Hiryu?

- vs 2/2/2 Strike Hiryu:  This is going to be close.  The disparity in fighter tiers isn't massive and Hiryu flies the same fighter per unit counts.  Hiryu's fighters are still better but Kaga has stronger reserves to outlast.

- vs 3/1/2 Air Superiority Hiryu:  Hiryu all the way, even an AS Hiryu gives Saipan a run for its money.

 

Still, I think Kaga will get in good damaging attack runs but it all depends on how the player gets as close to unmolested attack runs as possible.  Kaga is going to lose a lot of planes even on a clean run.  If those planes get hit with Defensive Fire, good AA, fighter intercepts, then the attack run is a complete waste.  Her fighters are probably only good enough for intercepting unescorted bombers or acting as speedbumps against enemy fighters so the bombers get in a bit cleaner for the attack run.



Shokaku_1 #38 Posted Yesterday, 11:41 PM

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View Postbacononaboat, on 21 May 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

Pigeon of War himself said that in that case, it's best to send what Kaga fighter squad to lock up one or more Saipan ones and then strafe with a second fighter squad. Yes, that means you'll kill a few of your own but it's an effective tactic to kill off some of those pesky Saipan fighters at least for a little bit

 

Saipan players would not allow his fighters to be locked, which means his fighters are fighting against low tier fighters with dog fighting expert bonus. In fact Saipan fighters should always use strafe to nullify dog fighting expert bonus on low tier fighters; when locked, just exit-strafe without any loss, if there's some enemy planes to kill by exit-strafing, that's a bonus.  Saipan should not lose too many fighters in fighter war against other tier 7 CVs if controlled perfectly.




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