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Cruisers are weak


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TalonV #21 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:20 PM

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View PostXenomancers, on 19 May 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

Moskva and Zao really don't fear battleships so much because they can effectively outtrade BB's at max range. Moskva can even tank BB's bow on a lot of times. Des Moines obliterate parked BB's if they have something to shoot over - and Hindy is kinda like Moskva but maybe not as good. t10 crusiers are great though. Still though I wouldn't call them > battleships. Nothing kills battleships like a battleship - and if you have more battleships come mid game - enemy crusiers are in a lot of trouble. Because when taking fire from multiple battleships - cruisers  get crushed.

FTFY.


 

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1nv4d3rZ1m #22 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:27 PM

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There is a massive difference between tier 10 cruises and cruisers of other tiers. Most people that talk about how unplayable cruisers are play tier 5 or 8. 

 

Not to say cruisers at almost any tier take a large amount of skill to play and are much less friendly to people that are not as skilled just that cruisers at tier 10 don't really represent the cruisers in general. 



Treediagram #23 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:36 PM

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View Postm373x, on 19 May 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

 

Like.. plan in advance?

 

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TalonV #24 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:46 PM

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View Post1nv4d3rZ1m, on 19 May 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

There is a massive difference between tier 10 cruises and cruisers of other tiers. Most people that talk about how unplayable cruisers are play tier 5 or 8. 

 

Not to say cruisers at almost any tier take a large amount of skill to play and are much less friendly to people that are not as skilled just that cruisers at tier 10 don't really represent the cruisers in general. 

 

Actually Zim, many of the cruisers at tier are verging on battlecruisers by that point. Hell most light cruisers by the end of 45 are pretty much as big as heavy cruisers were at the start of the war for pete's sake.  I mean I'd bet if Hindenburg was a real ship, she'd of easily been 20,000 tons empty let alone loaded. Moskova is probably somewhere around the same range of weight. Hell even loaded Des Moines is 21,000 tons.

 

These are some big damn ships.


 

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Madwolf05 #25 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:49 PM

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The biggest problem Cruisers have overall is that they can be penetrated from any angle, and get forced to the edges of battle for protection, and only the UK CLs can really hang out in front of the battle lines from the start to middle portions of the battle where as virtually every other Cruiser line must wait until later in the battle when the herd is thinned down.

 

Furthermore, while Cruiser are pretty good at kiting, they can all be penetrated from the rear and outside of the Fuso and New Mexico it can be done with decent reliability by most BBs, and those at Tier 9 and 10 can do it incredibly well, especially the Yamato with her super accuracy. 

 

If BBs want a Cruiser to spot, then it really can only as the British CLs, and as there is usually far too much risk for the average Cruiser to do so until fairly late in the game.

 

At the end of the day DDs are still far and away the best spotters, and have the tools capable of doing it the best. 


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Cobraclutch #26 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:56 PM

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View PostMadwolf05, on 19 May 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

 

 

At the end of the day DDs CVs are still far and away the best spotters, and have the tools capable of doing it the best. 

 

 

FTFY :P 



crzyhawk #27 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:58 PM

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Another BB main trying to justify themselves.


Mesrith #28 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:01 PM

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View PostBril01, on 19 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

The biggest cause of "CAs are weak" is the simple fact you have almost no room for error.

 

Pretty much.  They need players that can maximize damage output and utilize utility, while minimizing mistakes.  Most cruisers don't have the same levels of mistake mitigation that battleships and destroyers do, so the gap between good cruiser players and bad cruiser players is large.



KTcraft #29 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:05 PM

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View PostTalonV, on 19 May 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

Actually Zim, many of the cruisers at tier are verging on battlecruisers by that point. Hell most light cruisers by the end of 45 are pretty much as big as heavy cruisers were at the start of the war for pete's sake.  I mean I'd bet if Hindenburg was a real ship, she'd of easily been 20,000 tons empty let alone loaded. Moskova is probably somewhere around the same range of weight. Hell even loaded Des Moines is 21,000 tons.

 

These are some big damn ships.

Errr.... he was talking about in game balance.... not about historical facts....


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Destroyer_Kiyoshimo #30 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:10 PM

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Cruisers are also at the mercy of RNG, when you're weaving and dodging and a single shell still manages to hit you like this for 15k


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1nv4d3rZ1m #31 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:32 PM

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View PostKTcraft, on 19 May 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Errr.... he was talking about in game balance.... not about historical facts....

 

Some people just like to confuse issues by bringing up nonsense. 

SparvieroVV #32 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:32 PM

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View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 19 May 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Cruisers are also at the mercy of RNG, when you're weaving and dodging and a single shell still manages to hit you like this for 15k

 

if I get paddled I will admit it's my fault. The Hood is making my eyes twitch. I have to recalculate my angles because shells that shouldn't be an issue are now death. 

AureliusIII #33 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:00 PM

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View PostFog_Battleship_NCarolina, on 19 May 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

I'm struggling to understand why people think cruisers are weak and battleships are overpowered. 

 

In a battleship your game is dominated by RNG, yet in cruisers you are the one controlling everything that happens. I don't understand why people think cruisers are weak when a battleship kills a cruiser that decided to go broadside. Most of them time a battleship shoots at a cruiser if the cruiser has any awareness it will take steps to minimize being hit. I think the big issue is people are idiots and don't know how to play cruisers, rather than battleships being overpowered.

 

Sorry bud, but this is ignorant AF. There is no comparison, battleships do more damage, have better surviviability, and can influence a match far more profoundly. That's not up for debate, just check out Warships.Today -- vast majority of BBs in almost every tier outperform their cruiser counterparts in damage and kills. I'm not going to say cruisers are weak per se, but I can certainly see the validity of the argument when comparing the efficacy between classes. 

 

I say this as an inveterate cruiser main -- and I love playing them. But battleships are far, far more forgiving. 

 

 



KaptainKaybe #34 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:34 PM

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I have to agree that mid tier cruisers are a bit weak. Mind you, tier 9 and 10 cruisers are actually quite strong.

 

Tier 8 cruisers without Repair Party are the real victims here. It's stupidly difficult playing many tier 8 cruisers these days as they get uptiered into tier 10 matches all the time, and have nowhere near the rate of fire and survivability to compete with higher tier cruisers.



Izolyn #35 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:34 PM

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View PostTalonV, on 19 May 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

Actually Zim, many of the cruisers at tier are verging on battlecruisers by that point. Hell most light cruisers by the end of 45 are pretty much as big as heavy cruisers were at the start of the war for pete's sake.  I mean I'd bet if Hindenburg was a real ship, she'd of easily been 20,000 tons empty let alone loaded. Moskova is probably somewhere around the same range of weight. Hell even loaded Des Moines is 21,000 tons.

 

These are some big damn ships.

 

Moskva is ~30,000 tons (see the 1:42 scale Moskva video). I believe Zaou is, theoretically, just under 15,000 tons (from the artist's imagining in the magazine article).

 

I wouldn't call any of them barring Moskva even close to "battlecruisers" unless maybe you were to time-warp them back forty years to the point when the likes of Dreadnought were only 20,000 tons. They weren't even half the size of the battleships of their era (50,000 tons), again barring Moskva. Meanwhile the Alaska class was 35,000 tons full load for something that was decidedly not intended to be on the level of a battleship in arms or armor and both the Kronshtadt class and the Stalingrad class would have been ~42,000 tons full load.

 

The light/heavy cruiser distinction was never based on displacement. There's only a couple thousand tons of difference between the Cleveland and the Baltimore.


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JoshDOTPlay #36 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:35 PM

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I cruiser played well will outperform any battleship in almost any circumstance. This was a 1 vs 1 with a GK, he did under 30k, this player can shoot and was hitting regularly at range. However using basic angling principles and juking his effectiveness was pretty much zero. At the end the henri charged him down because boredom.

 

This result can be repeated again and again.


Edited by JoshDOTPlay, 19 May 2017 - 05:36 PM.


Fog_Battleship_NCarolina #37 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:45 PM

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View PostAureliusIII, on 19 May 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

Sorry bud, but this is ignorant AF. There is no comparison, battleships do more damage, have better surviviability, and can influence a match far more profoundly. That's not up for debate, just check out Warships.Today -- vast majority of BBs in almost every tier outperform their cruiser counterparts in damage and kills. I'm not going to say cruisers are weak per se, but I can certainly see the validity of the argument when comparing the efficacy between classes. 

 

I say this as an inveterate cruiser main -- and I love playing them. But battleships are far, far more forgiving. 

 

 

 

Battleships do more damage overall yes, but they typically only do it to 1 or 2 other BBs before dying. A cruiser spreads it's damage out over the enemy team. This game isn't only about farming on BBs, it's about having as wide an influence on the game as possible.

 

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Bril01 #38 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

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It is easy to juke and dodge a single BB firing upon you.  It becomes an issue when you are trying to track 4 BBs, while avoiding DD torps and the enemy CAs.   Not to mention you picked the ship probably best suited for 1v1'ing a BB.  A fast, agile and long range fire spamming CA :)   CAs are more than capable of performing well, the issue is a single mistake and it's all over.   They lack a BBs ability to take a huge amount of punishment and still recovery to fight on or the stealth potential of a DD.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing them but the issue most have with them is their survivabilty.  



1nv4d3rZ1m #39 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:55 PM

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View PostJoshDOTPlay, on 19 May 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

I cruiser played well will outperform any battleship in almost any circumstance. This was a 1 vs 1 with a GK, he did under 30k, this player can shoot and was hitting regularly at range. However using basic angling principles and juking his effectiveness was pretty much zero. At the end the henri charged him down because boredom.

 

This result can be repeated again and again.

 

One screen shot means very little, especially just the score screen. We have no idea how competent the BB was or the situation. It means especially little when you post someone elses results. NCarolina seems perfectly capable of bragging for himself. 

Fog_Battleship_NCarolina #40 Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:56 PM

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View PostBril01, on 19 May 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

It is easy to juke and dodge a single BB firing upon you.  It becomes an issue when you are trying to track 4 BBs, while avoiding DD torps and the enemy CAs.   Not to mention you picked the ship probably best suited for 1v1'ing a BB.  A fast, agile and long range fire spamming CA :)   CAs are more than capable of performing well, the issue is a single mistake and it's all over.   They lack a BBs ability to take a huge amount of punishment and still recovery to fight on or the stealth potential of a DD.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing them but the issue most have with them is their survivabilty.  

 

Why are you trying to fight a whole team at once?

 

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