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Two tankers making the switch, could use some advice


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TorpedoSponge #1 Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:58 AM

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Hello all, found some very useful topics here giving me a general idea of how each nation and warship line plays and what to expect with each, but I have a few questions, and could use the advice.

 

Being former tankers, my buddy and I are addicted to WoS now. Just bought my first tier 4 today. We both know that teamwork is often better than having mad skillz, and try to play accordingly. Problem is, I am not quite sure what kind of support is considered the most valuable. 

 

I am looking forward to playing as a carrier, but right now I'm having fun playing with anything. But if you were playing a battleship, what warship, or nationality, would you want defending/supporting you?

 

My friend is a battleship guy, but he's pulling his hair out when faced with torpedoes and torpedo planes. If you were to suggest a battleship that has good torpedo defense and strong AA, which would you pick?

 

And lastly, what are the strengths of each carrier line and how should you use them? 



AquaSquirrel #2 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:27 AM

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I would recommend the IJN CV tree, it is far more flexible then the USN one.  

 

The US and German BB's have the best AA, the Premium Texas is monstrous at AA and all the T8 and up USN BB's are so potent that many CV's wont strike them until later int the match. 


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Kapitanleutnant_Ford #3 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:44 AM

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As far as a BB line. German. They are all around good. Great secondaries, good AA, tanky. The guns are not the most accurate, but since they are kinda close/mid range brawlers, the low accuracy is less of a problem. And the t7 has torps, which are a lot of fun. 

Dealing with torps is just something you have to learn, if you start turning after you see the torps... your probably too late. Have to learn to anticipate were the DDs are and when the torps are coming. Alternating direction and speed will help make you a harder target, and turning preemptively when your torpedo senses start tingling.  The best way to learn how to survive and avoid torps from pesky DDs is.. to learn to play DDs. Play DDs learn the torp tactics, the strategies and the difficulties from a DDs perspective and that will help when your behind the wheel of your BB.

Hope you find something useful here, welcome to the game and the forum. 


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Estimated_Prophet #4 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:57 AM

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View PostTorpedoSponge, on 18 May 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

Being former tankers, my buddy and I are addicted to WoS now. Just bought my first tier 4 today. We both know that teamwork is often better than having mad skillz, and try to play accordingly. Problem is, I am not quite sure what kind of support is considered the most valuable. 

 

If you're looking for and absorbing information (the forum/youtube,) then you're already on the right track. (My aiming really stank until I saw a vid about it on youtube, and my battleship survival improved greatly after heading the advice of a fellow forum poster.)

 

Vision is everything. Anything that can give your team a vision advantage is the best initial support; allowing for better positioning before the fight starts.

 

So much more about support... Best to just play games and learn by experience, watch and read.

 

View PostTorpedoSponge, on 18 May 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

I am looking forward to playing as a carrier, but right now I'm having fun playing with anything. But if you were playing a battleship, what warship, or nationality, would you want defending/supporting you?

 

In lower tiers; any fast destroyer to scout/spot, or a fast-firing cruiser to kill enemy destroyers and annoy/set fire to everything else.

 

A destroyer like Isokaze can hurt things before they get close; something like Clemson is good support at closer ranges against multiple targets. A cruiser like St Louis is slow and tough support, something like Bagatyr more fragile but faster firing support.

 

More than ship or nationality; I want a destroyer or cruiser driver who knows what the heck they're doing as support.

 

View PostTorpedoSponge, on 18 May 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

My friend is a battleship guy, but he's pulling his hair out when faced with torpedoes and torpedo planes. If you were to suggest a battleship that has good torpedo defense and strong AA, which would you pick?

 

Best battleship AA at tier four when fully upgraded, Basic Firing Training and Advanced Firing Traing, with the auxiliary weapons modules a bit optional, (in my experience) is Wyoming. The German battleships are tougher, but to me Wyoming's AA performs better.

 

All kind of things that can make one battleship better than another, but a lot of that also boils down to player experience.

 

Of course; the best defense against air attack is not getting hit in the first place. Make sure to manuever to defeat the attack; (usually turning into a torpedo squadron BEFORE it drops,) make sure to focus-fire you AA, (ctrl/rt-click on air squad,) and as far as possible, try not to take a torpedo hit below a turret, to reduce detonation chances.

 

At low tiers there is no perfect defense against a determined air attack; you WILL get hit. All you can do is make it as hard as possible for the CV driver to get off a perfect attack. (Sailing in a straight line is begging for a CV (or a destroyer/cruiser,) to send you some torpedoes.)

 

View PostTorpedoSponge, on 18 May 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

And lastly, what are the strengths of each carrier line and how should you use them? 

 

USN carriers have tougher squadrons, IJN squadrons are more fragile.

 

USN squads are slower to reload, but can produce more damage in a single strike, IJN squadrons reload faster, but do less damage in a single strike, and due to more torpedo squads, can make it harder to dodge torpedoes by droping at opposite angles to a target, ('Hammer and Anvil/Cross-Drop.')

 

USN fighters in low tier should murder anything IJN, but that is also a matter of experience, and learning not to dogfight over enemy ships.

 

IJN fighters are there to occupy the USN fighters so your bombers can attack. If they get left alone? Then go kill bomber and spotting planes.

 

Mind you; the above is presuming a USN vs IJN matchup. USN vs USN and IJN vs IJN area whole different ball game.

 

Also; 'Strafe,' where fighter can mow down bombers and each other, is added at tier 6, (along with manual drops for bombers and torpedo bombers, but that's for later.)

 

Best general advice is to play BOTH carrier lines in co-op until you feel confident in using the controls, and also so you can get a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of both lines.

 

As one last bit; there MAY be a carrier rework later this year, so keep that in mind when playing carriers.

 

If they wind up frustrating you, then just play them in co-op; just to keep a minimum level of skill/experience in them; and because the smaller teams make them easier to use. (There is also 'frustration by bot,' but that's another conversation.)

 

View PostAquaSquirrel, on 18 May 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

The US and German BB's have the best AA, the Premium Texas is monstrous at AA and all the T8 and up USN BB's are so potent that many CV's wont strike them until later int the match. 

 

Forgot about Texas. In the T4 carriers, (Langley, Hosho,) STAY AWAY from an enemy Texas, it will eat your squadrons alive; conversely; if fighters are chasing your bombers; then fly over an allied Texas if you have one to get them scraped off. The T5 carriers, (Bogue, Zuiho,) have less trouble with Texas, but can still get hammered hard if they linger in Texas' range too long.


Edited by Estimated_Prophet, 19 May 2017 - 03:08 AM.

                           Forget Ise! Give me Hyuuga!!!


TorpedoSponge #5 Posted 19 May 2017 - 07:14 AM

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Thank you for taking the time to write out these responses, especially yours, Estimated Prophet. Sounds like carriers are more complex than I was preparing for, but I like learning the technical aspects and tactics of these games. 

 

-TorpSponge



SgtSullyC3 #6 Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:18 PM

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I also joined for the carriers, ended up playing a nice mix of all classes. I recommend playing the IJN carriers, at T7+ they absolutely stomp every US CV except for Saipan.

T1-3: Erie, Smith, Derski, G-101, Katori, St. Louis, Bogatyr, Friant, South Carolina

T4-6: Izyaslav, Clemson, Danae, Yūbari, Kaiser, Kamikaze, Königsberg, Omaha, Kongo, Bogue, Duca D'Aosta, Cleveland, Aoba, Perth, Ryujo, Dunkerque

T7-9: Shiratsuyu, Sims, Mahan, Atlanta, Belfast (gift from YureiKuma), Ranger, Saipan, New Orleans, Bismarck, North Carolina, Alabama, Lexington, Iowa, Missouri

 

GoalsIJN: Hiryu, Mogami - USN: Benson, Baltimore, Essex - HMS: Leander, Fiji - VMF: Podvoisky, Budyonny - MN: Emile Bertin, La Galissonnière


TorpedoSponge #7 Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:00 AM

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I'm going to eventually try both carrier types, but I just got my first jap cruiser a few minutes ago, and was a bit disappointed to see there is no manual drop? I read on another forum post that you cannot manual drop until tier 6. Not sure if I like the forced training wheels. I'm ready to learn how to actually play the carriers, not be subject to two whole tiers of kid-mode.



RivertheRoyal #8 Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:05 AM

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View PostTorpedoSponge, on 21 May 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

I'm going to eventually try both carrier types, but I just got my first jap cruiser a few minutes ago, and was a bit disappointed to see there is no manual drop? I read on another forum post that you cannot manual drop until tier 6. Not sure if I like the forced training wheels. I'm ready to learn how to actually play the carriers, not be subject to two whole tiers of kid-mode.

 

Those training wheels are more for the experienced WoWs players than the new guys.

You see, there were quite a few CV players who were dropping down to T4&5 in order to seal club, and they were able to murder everything with very little preamble. The removal of strafe and manual drops from the lower tiered CVs is meant to level the playing field somewhat, and discourage such behaviour. 

 

In reality though, very few people liked the change.  



Sotaudi #9 Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:12 PM

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Everything said so far is good, and without taking anything from Aqua, Kaptain, or SgtSully, the first advise I would give is to always pay attention to River and Estimated's posts.  I have found their posts to be well written, thoughtful, and informative.


 

I will add only a few things.  First, it is true that the Texas is an AA monster for its tier.  For instance, despite the fact that I play primarily US and Russian Cruisers which have the Defensive Fire (DF) consumable at Tier VI and above, the Texas is the only ship I have the Clear Skies achievement in.  However, there is a difference in the threat it and other BBs pose to Aircraft than an AA cruiser like, say, the Cleveland.


 

AA cruisers deploying DF (mostly USN and Russian Tier VI and above) against attacking squadrons will likely shred the incoming planes before they get a chance to drop, and if a few planes survive long enough to drop, DF disrupts the dispersion (increases it) the same way a squadron under attack by fighters does, making any drops less likely to score a hit.  BBs, with the exception of the HMS Hood, do not get DF. (The Hood gets DF, but it only affects its short range AA rocket defenses.)  Thus, while an attacking squadron may likewise not survive a run at a BB with good AA like the Texas, it will generally be more of a number of planes being lost on the way in, and the remaining planes being lost on the way out.  That means that there is still a chance that at least some will be able to drop, and since, again with the exception of the Hood, no DF is being employed, the drops will have their normal dispersion.


 

In both cases, you will want to spend as little time in their AA umbrella as possible.  With BBs, you setup a clean attack run, and get out as quickly as possible hoping to minimize losses.  With an AA cruiser, you do well to setup an attack run, bait him into using his DF, pull back and wait about 40 seconds for DF to expire, then go in and get the drop off and get out as quickly as possible because even without DF, his AA is dangerous.


 

Note that USN Destroyers, Tier VII and above, can equip DF, though, in many cases, there are some tradeoffs.  For example, the Sims and Mahan can only equip DF by giving up the Speed Boost consumable.  Others can only equip it once upgraded to the C hull.  While this will increase their AA DPS, it will never be as efficient as a Cruiser, so the main benefit of DF on these DDs is more to disrupt the dispersion than to increase the number of planes shot down.

 


Edited by Sotaudi, 24 May 2017 - 06:17 PM.


Sotaudi #10 Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:20 PM

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View PostTorpedoSponge, on 21 May 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

I'm going to eventually try both carrier types, but I just got my first jap cruiser a few minutes ago, and was a bit disappointed to see there is no manual drop? I read on another forum post that you cannot manual drop until tier 6. Not sure if I like the forced training wheels. I'm ready to learn how to actually play the carriers, not be subject to two whole tiers of kid-mode.

 

As a heads up, don't use the term "jap [insert ship here]."  It is a taboo term.  Use Japanese or IJN instead.

steelrain97 #11 Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:35 PM

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Russian DD's can be incredibly fun to play, but really play best as lone-wolf. The best all around DD branch is the American DD's they combine speed, maneuverability, decent Torps at the higher tiers, and very flexible, but floaty, guns. One of the things that makes them great support ships is their very good smoke, it covers a lot of area and lasts for a long time. Depending on setup, they can knife fight other DD's reasonably well, have the detection range, speed, and maneuverability to contest cap zones and are pretty decent torp boats starting at around tier 7. 

 

All the BB lines are pretty good, but the American lower tier BB's suffer from a severe lack of speed. Their guns hit like a Mack truck though. Germans are better brawlers, and IJN have fantastic guns but they are not really suitable for brawling.



Sotaudi #12 Posted 24 May 2017 - 07:03 PM

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Since your friend is concentrating on BBs, one thing to learn quickly is judicious use of consumables.  BBs get the Damage Control Party (DCP) consumable like everyone does that puts out fires, stops flooding, and repairs engines and steering, etc., but they also get Repair Party (RP), which restores a percentage of lost HP.  Learning how and when to use these is an important skill.


 

Thing to know is that not all damage is repairable.  However, Fire and Flooding damage are 100% repairable.  That means that you need to learn to time the use of these consumables to get the best results.


 

Don't be too quick to put out a single fire or even a single flooding.  If you burn (no pun intended) DCP on the first fire or flood, and you are still under fire, your DCP will be on cool down and unable to stop any additional fires or floods.  For instance, let us say you are under fire from a Cruiser using HE.  You get set on fire.  The initial instinct is to immediately put it out with DCP.  However, RP can repair 100% of the damage that fire causes, so let it burn.  Wait until the third fire starts before putting them all out at the same time.  (This, of course, assumes you have the HP to spare.)  RP will recover the fire or flooding damage done while you waited.  Of course, if you are out of danger and expect DCP to be off cool down before you come under fire again, there is no sense in letting it burn.  However, just keep in mind that RP can repair fire and flooding damage, and you don't want to waste DCP on a single incident of fire or flooding if you have the HP to survive it while RP is repairing the damage.


 

In the case of CVs, a smart BB captain will not be baited into putting out a fire caused by the dive bombers only to then get hit with flooding by the torpedo bombers that were held back waiting for you to burn your DCP.


 

Also keep in mind that you have a limited number of RP charges while DCP is unlimited.  You still want to mind the above, but you need to manage your use of RP as well so that you don't run out of charges repairing small amounts of damage unnecessarily.



mavmatt #13 Posted 25 May 2017 - 12:39 AM

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Other than what has been written above, the only other advice that I could give is play a mix of different classes and nations.  It may seem like a grind and not very enjoyable at first, but it is vital especially if you are new to the game.  Generally, how the game is set up is like a rock-paper-scissors style: Battleships (BBs) beat Cruisers (CAs/CLs); Cruisers beat Destroyers (DDs); and DDs beat BBs.  Aircraft carriers (CVs or ACs depending on what region you are playing) are kind of a "jack-of-all-trades"; they can beat anyone and likewise be beaten by anyone.  However, while generally this is how it works, you can easily break this balance if you become familiar with the various styles of the different ship classes.

 

For example, since your friend is still trying to figure-out the best way to deal with torpedoes and torpedo bombers (TBs), I would actually encourage more DD play.  At first it may seem that they are too different playstyles (which they are!) and that you may not be able to better BB gameplay this way; however, playing DDs helps battleship players understand DD tactics and the angles of attack that you must be wary of (nothing ruins your day faster than taking 3 or 4 torpedoes because you turned left instead of right).  This same line of thought extends to all of the other classes as well.

 

As Sun Tzu says, "If know your enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles."  By knowing the psychology and abilities of your opponent, you can frequently wreak havoc on them and become a master of this game. 



CG59 #14 Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:35 AM

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As an add-on to what has been posted above, I would recommend playing IJN DDs to get an idea of how those players think, as a way of putting yourself in the torp launchers shoes. Another really good support class that can help out battleships is USN dds, I love those, especially at higher tiers, because of their good smokes.




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