Jump to content


Lert's problems with Hood


  • Please log in to reply
159 replies to this topic

Phoenix_jz #101 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:03 PM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 4,427
  • Member since:
    05-06-2013

View PostLert, on 19 May 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

 

Premium ammo! Oh wait ...

 


 

My "Directory of Threads" <-- Various threads I've done you might find interesting, feel free to check it out!

​Most recent addition: USN Cruiser Split


RogueFlameHaze #102 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:07 PM

    Vice Admiral

  • Beta Testers

  • 9,931
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
Dont worry, those early reviews don't effect the ship's balance, WG would never consider community reaction on a ship being tested for their sales!

[-K-] Kraken

 

Newest video- Opinions Changed - World of Warships: Z-46 Gameplay

https://www.youtube....h?v=a3I15PFgccQ


TalonV #103 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:11 PM

    Admiral of the Navy

  • Alpha Tester
  • Beta Testers

  • 27,491
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostLert, on 19 May 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

 

Premium ammo! Oh wait ...

 

 (yes I know it was sarcasm)

 

​This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. In war you

never want to fight fair. You want to sneak up behind

the enemy, and bash him over the head.


mofton #104 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:12 PM

    Commander

  • Members

  • 3,043
  • Member since:
    10-22-2015

View PostMaliceA4Thought, on 19 May 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Understand, after all Bismark and Tripitz have 15" at T8 and survive, but their guns are not worn barrel, and the whole balancing thing goes crazy here because technically (and I use that term carefully) at range, the German 15" guns were superior to the RN WW1 designs and somewhat more superior in worn barrel format.

 

This is where all the balancing goes wrong, because the same guns should be on Warspite, Hood and Vanguard but they are not.  Now if WG balanced the ships with regards to their main armament, I don't think there would be much of a problem, but the gimmicks we have where the other factors that really didn't exist are used for balancing are not doing the job.    

 

There could be an excuse for having Hoods guns being slightly worse than Warspites due to the windscreen, but that "should" be made up for by having the same Krupp and a slightly faster rate of fire and longer range (neither of which exists but which Hood actually had)

 

Well, if I read off of the esteemed Mr Phoenix_jz's graph for 6crh (new) + supercharges it looks like those guns are ahead of the German 15in on Bis/Gneis. Superior penetration out to at least 20km, beyond 20km in game I don't think has much value.

 

The British also have consistently better accuracy than the herpa-derpa Germans. Overall I'd say an Admiral+supercharges (or Vanguard) would be reasonable in the guns department, if not 16in super-heavy equivalent.

 

If WG only have access to worn barrel data for the RN then we have a bit of a problem, and access is I think the likely issue. Purposefully using worn guns as a flavor? That would be even more stupid than giving a 31kt cruiser an 8% speed boost as a gimmick to test... oh!

 

I think Hood could do with higher ROF, Admiral can too - but staying behind the Germans.

 

 

If you're already inventing an a-historic refit for a tree Admiral class, then using supercharges seems a-ok to me. Emerald already gets them in game.


light.png

Iowanna be a rockstar - Salmon - Ctrl-Click-Schiffe - Le Dunkerque - Grand Old Lady - ~5 Mil in IJN Scrap

Gearings of Poor - Trashcan - Biscuit-tweaker - Tachi-Ali-Baba - Not-quite-Minekaze - Zit-23 - Shinbone - Your-a-gnome

Dakka Moines - AbSchorring - Dakka-Dakka-taur


Phoenix_jz #105 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:27 PM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 4,427
  • Member since:
    05-06-2013

This is the supercharged 15" 6crh penetration against that of the German 15" of WWII. The light blue line is the British gun, it compares to the red line (which factors in angle of impact), not the dark blue one.

 

 

It is a just below 7 km that the British gun starts having superior penetration to the German gun, a result of the fact it's using an 879kg shell, compared to an 800 kg shell.

 

And, for the lols, also compared to Bayern's guns...

 

 

... or, as I like to call it, a textbook example of what light shells do to your penetration. Bayern's guns are the same caliber, with superior MV to the supercharged shells... but are 129 kg lighter.


 

My "Directory of Threads" <-- Various threads I've done you might find interesting, feel free to check it out!

​Most recent addition: USN Cruiser Split


Francois424 #106 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:33 PM

    Commander

  • Beta Testers
  • In AlfaTesters

  • 3,184
  • Member since:
    09-04-2012

I would trade speed down to 28 knots for better shells and sigma myself.

Heck it's no secret I wanted a T7 WarSpite able to give it to Scharnhorst, and all the other T7s... I got part of it...  But will be waiting until June (9th?) to get her without bundles so can't try it just yet.

Speed is good, but over 25kts is not worth pushing for until the rest of the ship is in good state.

 

I hope the British BB line resembles more the WarSpite than Hood, and I feel the Turret buff is something that should not have happened.  It was THE drawback of the British, and WarSpite and Hood could've used buffs to another area (such as innate fire resistance to make them more tanky and better to hunt cruisers and other fire spammers).


 

Great Post, I agree 100%


Edited by Francois424, 19 May 2017 - 03:34 PM.


 


Sventex #107 Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:39 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,684
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostLert, on 19 May 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

 

Premium ammo! Oh wait ...

 

I call dibs on the MK23 shells!  Oh and those firecracker shells, I'd love the detonate those over a DD hiding in smoke!

Spoiler

 


Edited by Sventex, 19 May 2017 - 03:40 PM.

"The world is not beautiful; and that, in a way, lends it a sort of beauty."
 


SeanPwnery #108 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:00 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Testers

  • 679
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

I got in about 9 or 10 battles in the Hood last night. I went ahead and bought it after watching TheMightyJingles video review of it (if you're on the fence about dropping a Benji on Hood, watch his video - it'll either convince you to do so, or not to do so). Other than that, I tooned up with a friend in his, and we went to town, these were my lasting impressions thus far:

 

  • It's a new ship, people by and large are enamored with it and want to kill it if facing one. The longer these are around, the better the chance of learning how and where to hit her for citadel shots (I ran into two people who knew exactly what to do and where to do it already)
  • Rudder shift mod makes this a very comfy ship to play
  • Turret rotation time is a bit painful when you're zig-zagging away from an invisible DD, or when you're constantly getting peppered by anyone with inertia fuses.
  • Deck fires are monsterously annoying with this ship
  • The less power of the guns I can live with, but the reloading time feels a bit painful at 30 seconds, especially when...
  • The secondaries while being a paltry after-thought, are very short-ranged for their tier ... not a fan.
  • 4 Upgrade slots ... weak... I'd love to have had the concealment mod slot :unsure:
  • Yay, I get AA defense cooldown (did not see a single CV last night) .... no hydro though... yikes. :ohmy:

 

Would I recommend it to people? Absolutely - it plays a bit to my strengths despite a few obvious weaknesses of the boat, I can more or less live with the ship the way it is if I had a 5th EQ slot or longer-ranged secondaries. The idea of 6 EQ slots like the Arkansas Beta makes me drool a bit. :D



Sakuzhi #109 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:11 PM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 5,062
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostPhoenix_jz, on 19 May 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

Granted, one could always use supercharges on the 15" guns. I suspect if WG did, they'd use the worn velocity again (785mps)... but granted, this is not as big of an issue as people make it out to be, in this case. The British 15" shells aren't just 15" AP... they're 879kg AP. They're the heaviest 15" AP in the game, and will be until the French and Italians arrive. Pairing them with a 785mps MV makes them quite strong, assuming you're using Warspite's 6crh shells, they should hit harder than the German 380mm/52 (Gneisenau, Bismarck, Tirpitz) past 7 km (German gun, despite the higher MV at 820mps, is much, much lighter, at only 800kg. A prime example is the difference between the penetration on Bayern's guns, versus Warspite's).

There isn't any data to support the notion that the 15inch cannons even with super charge, using mk17Bs match the 15" Cannons on the Bismarck class at 20km.

 

 

View Postmofton, on 19 May 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

Vanguard is widely cited as a T8 with effectively the same guns. Hood could be not dissimilar.

 

Hood as currently is just too much at T6 compared to Mutsu and Warspite.

 

Depends on the Shells, and what else the ships brings to the table.

 

I would lean to agree that as she was at the time of Sinking, she was more T6 than T7 material given the amount of buffs needed for this.


  • Mostly plays battleships and is excellent in them (warships.today)

SourKraut13 #110 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:15 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Testers

  • 525
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View Poststarksrevenge, on 18 May 2017 - 11:44 PM, said:

The most confusing thing to me is the shells. I really don't understand why being a tire up she need worse pen than Warspite. 

 

I think the problem is that Warspite is a refit BB of the QE Class, so it is newer than Hood and therefore should be better than Hood, except in speed. WG will be WG, "for Historical Reasons" or "For Balance", either excuse works for them. Just be thankful we have a naval warfare game using WWI and WWII ships.

crzyhawk #111 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:20 PM

    Admiral

  • Members
  • Beta Testers

  • 10,858
  • Member since:
    05-08-2015

View PostTalonV, on 18 May 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

Bah, all these gimmicks are really holding back the game. I mean I can understand national flavor to a point, but when it's actually limiting what you can do with the game instead of opening it up, maybe it's time to try a new approach.
 

 

Excellent point.


Phoenix_jz #112 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:23 PM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 4,427
  • Member since:
    05-06-2013

View PostSakuzhi, on 19 May 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

There isn't any data to support the notion that the 15inch cannons even with super charge, using mk17Bs match the 15" Cannons on the Bismarck class at 20km.

 

I was basing my data off of Warspite's shells, which the game labels as Mk.22b's. The deciding factor is that while the Bismarck's guns have better muzzle velocity, and better drag... They're only 800kg shells, and the better drag just doesn't offset the superior energy retention of the heavier British shells. The British gun will penetrate more past 7 km.


 

My "Directory of Threads" <-- Various threads I've done you might find interesting, feel free to check it out!

​Most recent addition: USN Cruiser Split


TalonV #113 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:24 PM

    Admiral of the Navy

  • Alpha Tester
  • Beta Testers

  • 27,491
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View Postcrzyhawk, on 19 May 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

 

Excellent point.

 

I mean gimmicks are fun and all, and it can be fun to give a ship a specific quirk. Some are done by ship design, Spee is the perfect example, Atlanta(much as you don't like it, though I still think they are not giving the correct ballistics) is another.

 

But balancing around them, is just a BAD idea.


 

​This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. In war you

never want to fight fair. You want to sneak up behind

the enemy, and bash him over the head.


Destroyer_Kiyoshimo #114 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:26 PM

    Admiral

  • Beta Testers

  • 12,002
  • Member since:
    05-25-2014

View PostPhoenix_jz, on 19 May 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

 

I was basing my data off of Warspite's shells, which the game labels as Mk.22b's. The deciding factor is that while the Bismarck's guns have better muzzle velocity, and better drag... They're only 800kg shells, and the better drag just doesn't offset the superior energy retention of the heavier British shells. The British gun will penetrate more past 7 km.

 

All they had to do was give Hood not-worn guns and she probably would be fine. I mean, Gneisnau does fine with only 6 15-inch guns.

 Kiyoshimo's aircraft carrier rework Kiyoshimo's Torpedo Campaign

I am the Hull of my Torpedo. Steel is my body and Oxygen is my blood. I have caused over one thousand hull breaches. Unknown to flames, nor known to penetrate. I have withstood pain to launch many torpedoes. Yet those guns will never shoot anything.
So, as I pray-- Unlimited Torpedo Works


Phoenix_jz #115 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:34 PM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 4,427
  • Member since:
    05-06-2013

View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 19 May 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

 

All they had to do was give Hood not-worn guns and she probably would be fine. I mean, Gneisnau does fine with only 6 15-inch guns.

 

Granted, Gneisenau has torpedoes, and Made in German armor that renders her citadel an item more of myth than reality. And powerful secondaries, coupled with the fact they make hilariously good DP guns (136.4 dps @ 5.19 km :trollface: ). And a 26 second reload on her main guns.

 

But yeah, Hood could've been helped with new gun velocities... although I still think she should've been a tier VI, without all the gimmicks.


 

My "Directory of Threads" <-- Various threads I've done you might find interesting, feel free to check it out!

​Most recent addition: USN Cruiser Split


crzyhawk #116 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:39 PM

    Admiral

  • Members
  • Beta Testers

  • 10,858
  • Member since:
    05-08-2015

View PostTalonV, on 19 May 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

I mean gimmicks are fun and all, and it can be fun to give a ship a specific quirk. Some are done by ship design, Spee is the perfect example, Atlanta(much as you don't like it, though I still think they are not giving the correct ballistics) is another.

 

 

 

But balancing around them, is just a BAD idea.

 

The reason I don't like Atlanta is because I remember what it was in CBT, when it was my favorite ship to play.  Let's be frank here, my favorite ships of that era, are USN cruisers.

 

They made all of them suck and unfun to play, and that seriously chaps my hide.  Atlanta was the one exception...a USN cruiser that was tons of fun to play.  Now, it's a brittle, hide behind island and pretend to be a fracking tank, firing from cover, POS that can't hit anything from any reasonable range.  I don't hate Atlanta; I hate what it's become.  I hate that they "flavored" it into a crap-sandwich that I can't stand the taste of any longer.  I hate that they ruined my favorite ship.



Sventex #117 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:42 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,684
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
Hood rocket AA would been a fun gimmick if you actually got to see the rockets firing in the air and aerial minefields appearing.  I don't care if that AA rating was terrible, it would be fun to watch.  Rocket sound effects would be cool too.

Edited by Sventex, 19 May 2017 - 04:43 PM.

"The world is not beautiful; and that, in a way, lends it a sort of beauty."
 


TalonV #118 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:50 PM

    Admiral of the Navy

  • Alpha Tester
  • Beta Testers

  • 27,491
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View Postcrzyhawk, on 19 May 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

 

The reason I don't like Atlanta is because I remember what it was in CBT, when it was my favorite ship to play.  Let's be frank here, my favorite ships of that era, are USN cruisers.

 

They made all of them suck and unfun to play, and that seriously chaps my hide.  Atlanta was the one exception...a USN cruiser that was tons of fun to play.  Now, it's a brittle, hide behind island and pretend to be a fracking tank, firing from cover, POS that can't hit anything from any reasonable range.  I don't hate Atlanta; I hate what it's become.  I hate that they "flavored" it into a crap-sandwich that I can't stand the taste of any longer.  I hate that they ruined my favorite ship.

 

Yeah, I can't argue that. Atlanta was a beast in CBT, as was Cleveland, 2 of my favorite cruisers. Now, just shadows of what they once were.

 

​This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. In war you

never want to fight fair. You want to sneak up behind

the enemy, and bash him over the head.


TalonV #119 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:50 PM

    Admiral of the Navy

  • Alpha Tester
  • Beta Testers

  • 27,491
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

View PostPhoenix_jz, on 19 May 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

 

Granted, Gneisenau has torpedoes, and Made in German armor that renders her citadel an item more of myth than reality. And powerful secondaries, coupled with the fact they make hilariously good DP guns (136.4 dps @ 5.19 km :trollface: ). And a 26 second reload on her main guns.

 

But yeah, Hood could've been helped with new gun velocities... although I still think she should've been a tier VI, without all the gimmicks.

 

With her tonnage, she'd of had more HP than all tier 6 and 7 BBs. Not going to happen.

 

​This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. In war you

never want to fight fair. You want to sneak up behind

the enemy, and bash him over the head.


Nachoo31 #120 Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:54 PM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Beta Testers

  • 2,321
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
Game not a Historical Sim... :(

Looking for Clan?  TheKriegsmarines [KMS]  

 





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users