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Invisibility needs to be removed from the game.


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Shadowrigger1 #41 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:14 PM

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Every time a BB player opens their mouth, I swear an Angel loses their wings.    

 

On a Serious note,  the game isn't dying due to the population stats people always seem to bring up.  It's dying (skill wise) due to the pure incompetence of the player base.


Edited by Shadowrigger1, 18 May 2017 - 01:16 PM.


RivertheRoyal #42 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:19 PM

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View PostSgtSullyC3, on 18 May 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

 

 

 

 

 

 


AVR_Project #43 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:24 PM

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View Posttwitch133, on 18 May 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

 

The nautical horizon is much closer than you think it is. 2.9 miles (4.6km) for an observer at sea level. Trying to observer an object at sea level.

 

This horizon will get further away depending on the height ASL for the observer and the object being observed. (Hence the in game formula that directly relates the base concealment on most ships to mast height.

 

 

Not that I understand any of this math. I am just an engine technician after all... Not an engineer.

 

But, I know there are some engineers and statistics guys on the forums that will be able to dig into this for you. (Vak_, where are you, lol?)

 

NO !!!

Please don't equate this to real life.

If the DD can spot the Battleship, then reciprocally, the Battleship can spot the destroyer.  In fact, the Battleship has better optics and a steadier platform.

..

And in the Battle off Samar, the Johnston used SMOKE and RADAR for most of it's accurate fire.

The US Electric Fire Control system was a Top Secret system, like the Norden Bomb sight, Proximity Fuse, and Atomic bomb.

On the other hand, the US Torpedo Firing mechanism was so secret at the start of WW2 that there were no live fire tests..  We know how that turned out.


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khaenn35 #44 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:25 PM

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Oh god, please...

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Soshi_Sone #45 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:26 PM

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View PostThe_African_Queen, on 18 May 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

I just had a battle with a DD and my BB. During this battle I dodged 6 salvos of torpedoes without ever catching sight of my opponent who didn't use smoke at any point. This was no fun, totally unrealistic and frustrating as hell. My secondaries should have blown him away despite the massive nerfing of them by Wargaming. Invisibility is ruining the game. Every feature in the game favours DDs. I didn't join this game to play DDs though I do play them. The changes made to make ships appear breifly were a joke as is the hopeless sighting rules. 

 

It wasn't long ago that same DD could have pelted you with HE as well.  WG changed that.

 

Look on the bright side.  That DD was effectively neutralized by YOU.  He could not fire his guns without detection, so all he had was his Torps.  And those had to be launched from outside his detection range, which makes your WASD much more effective.  On the flip side, WASD notwithstanding, you could engage anyone else spotted and in range with your main guns and secondaries.  So, in aggregate, you neutralized while you were still effective elsewhere. Not as effective than if the DD wasn't stalking you.  But effective nonetheless. 

 

The whole is more effective than the sum of its parts.  An effective anti-DD strategy involves teamwork as well as experience.  This is a puzzle to be solved.  Half the fun of this game is figuring out how to solve these puzzles...and then using the experience ongoing to make yourself a more effective player.  There are several ways to crack the DD stealth torp nut.  

 

I agree that it is very frustrating when it happens. I've been very frustrated by similar things in this game where I feel somewhat helpless against an enemy that seems to have all the advantages over me.  But turn that frustration into figuring out how to beat it.  There is a lot of satisfaction when you get there.  And once you get there, it's YOU who gets to turn the table...and squash those nasty DDs like they deserve to be squashed.

 

Caveat:  That last phrase is in jest.  I love DDs players.  Really, I do.  They've pulled my feet out of the fire (literally) many times.   

 

 

     

 


Edited by Soshi_Sone, 18 May 2017 - 01:29 PM.


RearAdmiralButts #46 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:27 PM

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You must be new around here.
Instead of asking for a game mechanics change, perhaps you can attempt to improve your own gameplay?
Those WASD keys are there for a reason, use them.  I'm guessing you probably potato along in a straight line until you see those torps coming at you.  Changing speed and heading randomly IRL Is a tactic to avoid torpedo attack. Surprisingly it actually works in this game too.
Also try to not sail alone, if you're with your teammates then they will actually do a ton of spotting for you.  
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MrDeaf #47 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:30 PM

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This just in...

 

DDs are supposed to counter BBs


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Nachoo31 #48 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:31 PM

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If you going to wonder off alone you need to have the mentality to know there will most likely be a DD coming for you, or at least torpedoes.  I'mm guessing instead of retreating you went at the source of the torpedoes.  Live and learn.  

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Skpstr #49 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:32 PM

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View Posttwitch133, on 18 May 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

 

The nautical horizon is much closer than you think it is. 2.9 miles (4.6km) for an observer at sea level. Trying to observer an object at sea level. 

 

This horizon will get further away depending on the height ASL for the observer and the object being observed. (Hence the in game formula that directly relates the base concealment on most ships to mast height.

 

 

Not that I understand any of this math. I am just an engine technician after all... Not an engineer.

 

But, I know there are some engineers and statistics guys on the forums that will be able to dig into this for you. (Vak_, where are you, lol?)

 

The fact that they stop at relating visibility to mast height is what makes the system so artificial. They're leaving out anything to do with the height of the observer.

 

If you were sitting in a dinghy at sea level, then yes, a DD would become visible at a much closer distance than a BB. BUT, the BB would spot the dinghy well before the DD.

 

For all practical purposes, if you can spot an enemy, they can spot you, regardless of the difference in mast heights.

 

But to be that realistic removes a way by which ships and classes can be balanced. So even though our concealment ratings are not reflective of reality, I have no problem with it, because it serves a necessary purpose.

 

Same with DD vs. BB. I'm no expert, but IRL, I'm of the opinion that on a clear day with a calm sea, (basically weather conditions in game) a DD has little chance against a BB. But in a game without organised teamwork, where doing damage is the key to good rewards, every ship needs a way to consistently deal that damage against any ship type.

 

TBH, I think WG does a pretty good job of arranging things so that different classes have different strengths and weaknesses.


 


h_balck #50 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:32 PM

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View PostThe_African_Queen, on 18 May 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

Every feature in the game favours DDs. I didn't join this game to play DDs though I do play them. 

Please explain how, with only 79 battles in DD's out of a grand total of 1,118 total battles, you find that statement to be true.  

 

:unsure:



jager_geist #51 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:32 PM

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Ok, it may not be fun having to use WASD hacks against a stalker, but being a DD spotted is a lot less fun. I play a lot of BB and just try not to sail in straight lines, change my speed randomly at times, when there are DDs still out there. They want to play as well.


SgtSullyC3 #52 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:34 PM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 18 May 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

 


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MrSparkle #53 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:34 PM

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They won't remove magic invisibility spells just like they won't remove captain ESP I mean Situational Awareness

 

"Helmsman, we've been spotted. Evasive maneuvers."

 

"How do you know captain? We haven't detected any ships in the area?

 

"I'm psychic, helmsman. I know things."

 

We just have to deal with it.   


Edited by MrSparkle, 18 May 2017 - 01:35 PM.


Skpstr #54 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:36 PM

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View PostAVR_Project, on 18 May 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

NO !!!

Please don't equate this to real life.

If the DD can spot the Battleship, then reciprocally, the Battleship can spot the destroyer.  

 

To be fair though, if you want to get technical, whoever has their lookout closest to the top of the mast will spot first. If you're right at rhe top of the mast, you can spot the top of an enemy mast over the horizon, but if the lookout is 30 ft. below that, you can't see him, nor can he see you. (or your mast, since you're at the top of that.


 


Khafni #55 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:36 PM

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This has been an interesting post. OP comes in with a whine, others give him cheese and crackers to go with the whine. Was anything accomplished?
 

 


SireneRacker #56 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:42 PM

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View PostKhafni, on 18 May 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

This has been an interesting post. OP comes in with a whine, others give him cheese and crackers to go with the whine. Was anything accomplished?

 

Considering that OP has kept quiet I think he is just trolling.

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Torpedoes don't have any friends. So they will kill everything in their path. To prevent team kills we should all watch out where we fire those fishes. That means each and everyone of us, DDs of the second line!

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Murcc #57 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:51 PM

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View PostThe_African_Queen, on 18 May 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

I just had a battle with a DD and my BB. During this battle I dodged 6 salvos of torpedoes without ever catching sight of my opponent who didn't use smoke at any point. This was no fun, totally unrealistic and frustrating as hell. My secondaries should have blown him away despite the massive nerfing of them by Wargaming. Invisibility is ruining the game. Every feature in the game favours DDs. I didn't join this game to play DDs though I do play them. The changes made to make ships appear breifly were a joke as is the hopeless sighting rules. 

 

So you dodged 6 salvos of torps, meaning the DD got 0 hits on you.  If you had been able to spot the DD and fired that many salvos, how many hits would there have been.  I'm guessing that the DD would have taken quite a bit of damage, because it is quite hard to dodge a high velocity BB shot if it is aimed at the proper location.  Stealth is the only thing going for a DD, because the main armament of the DD is torps which are hit and miss, mostly miss.  The fact that you were able to dodge all salvos shows just how hard it is for the DD to score hits.  The reload time is so long as well. It would be the equivalent of firing 10 or more BB salvos and missing every shot.  Another thing to consider is the speed of the torps, which can be dodged vs the velocity of a BB shot.  How would anyone like it if you fire a shot, and just before the shot arrives, the ship quickly dodges out of its path because it can.

 

So, if we want to be on the same page for all ships, make the DDs visible for their full torp range.  Then make the BB and CA/CL gun velocity half what it is now.  That would give both ships equal opportunity to dodge the others armaments.  Wouldn't that be fun.  Noooooo!  

 

DDs have their place.  You have to be aware of them.  It keeps the BBs from charging in beating their chests.  Travel with cruisers.  DDs don't like cruisers.  Have a DD spot for you to light up any DDs in the area.  Then a close by friendly CA/CL can light him up.  

 

As a side note, I like cruisers, but I play all ships.  If you think you have issues with DDs in a BB, try playing a cruiser and have to face a BB.  A well placed BB shot instantly deletes a cruiser even if you do know its coming.  Its just a fact of how different ships interact.


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_WaveRider_ #58 Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:57 PM

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View PostMadwolf05, on 18 May 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

 

1FGEw.jpg

 

View PostUmikami, on 18 May 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

 

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! !

This is the best part of this entire post!

(but don't keep us in suspense; WHAT HAPPENS TO RED LOBSTER!?!?!?!

I don't want to know if he dies! :(

 

Don't care if you make 5hit up; please let it be a happy ending! :ohmy:



sbcptnitro #59 Posted 18 May 2017 - 02:00 PM

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Were you on my team last night, OP? Cause all the rest of the potatoes were.

Kapitanleutnant_Ford #60 Posted 18 May 2017 - 02:17 PM

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I pray this is a troll thread. Cause otherwise..pathetic. They have been nerfing DDs to oblivion and giving BBs advantage after advantage... and still we have people crying about where the torps touched them.
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