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A tiny experiment. Want to play tier 8? Get matched against tier Xs in 11/11 games


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Destroyer_Radford #41 Posted 18 May 2017 - 12:35 PM

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View PostSlimeball91, on 18 May 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

 

Why can't we have +1/-1 MM and go to +2/-2 if queue times are getting too long at lower population hours?

 

"Too much programming"
"Server load"

 

The same excuses for why USN BB armor belts don't get their tapers shown by breaking up the belt into different strips of varying thickness. 

 

Meanwhile other BBs are chalk full of like a dozen different armor strips on things like barbets and armor belts.

 


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Skpstr #42 Posted 18 May 2017 - 12:35 PM

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View Postmmfullen, on 18 May 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Think of all the extra damage you can farm in tier X matches...

 

 

I know everybody's experiences are different, but my damage output is pretty similar regardless of placement, and I do notice appreciably greater rewards in Tier 10 matches.

 

 


 


Taylor3006 #43 Posted 18 May 2017 - 12:35 PM

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View PostSkpstr, on 18 May 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

 

That's not a high-tier thing really, so much as a CL thing.

 

I play cruisers mostly (ok maybe DDs as much) and this has not been my experience. Heck I even enjoyed Emerald. 

Rowstralker #44 Posted 18 May 2017 - 12:51 PM

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Okay I know I haven't played in a while as I recoup from surgery but for Tier 6 I found the Bayern to actually not do badly, not outstanding, but I feel I can contribute to the team. At T8 it is my Amagi which is the work horse. I already have both the NorCal and Iowa so trying to grind up the IJN line.


 

With the Amagi I usually try to find a division to team up with and support them as best I can. I know I can contribute in T9 and T10 battles in this ship and if I can find the right group of captains to support then this BB can become a monster securing kills. The Amagi is what I will be using for the new event starting today.


 

So, overall I expect to be the lowest on the totem pole each fight and do what I can to accept the MM challenge. If it gets too much I will drop into PvE with friends and just have fun.


 

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Alexcalibur96 #45 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:05 PM

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This shows that the amount of players playing T9 is very small

Battlecruiser_Tiger #46 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:06 PM

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View PostAlexcalibur96, on 18 May 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

This shows that the amount of players playing T9 is very small

 

Not surprising. It's a tier filled with a lot of very unfun ships that almost never enjoy top seeding, either.

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Destroyer_Kiyoshimo #47 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:08 PM

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I want to be clear that I, personally, have no problem fighting two tiers up.

 

What I have a problem with is fighting two tiers up all the time.

 

Being bottom tier is stressful. You have to be at the top of your game to be competitive in the match and to have an impact. If this happens every game (or nearly every game) than it gets pretty mentally tiring and results in less play overall. Only an idiot can't recognize this. Being bottom tier 9 out of 10 games in tier 5, 6, or 7 is just as stressful as playing tier 10 for 10 matches where you have to do your absolute best every single time. There's no reprieve. There's no break. There's no time to relax.


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Battlecruiser_Tiger #48 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:19 PM

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View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 18 May 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

I want to be clear that I, personally, have no problem fighting two tiers up.

 

What I have a problem with is fighting two tiers up all the time.

 

Being bottom tier is stressful. You have to be at the top of your game to be competitive in the match and to have an impact. If this happens every game (or nearly every game) than it gets pretty mentally tiring and results in less play overall. Only an idiot can't recognize this. Being bottom tier 9 out of 10 games in tier 5, 6, or 7 is just as stressful as playing tier 10 for 10 matches where you have to do your absolute best every single time. There's no reprieve. There's no break. There's no time to relax.

 

Same. Last night it was just abominable - one defeat after another, all while I was sailing a ship downtiered twice. Every so often, I do make a significant impact in those matches, even when I'm handicapped in such a way. But it isn't common - it can't be; Warspite is not equal to Alabama; Tirpitz isn't equivalent to Yamato. Skill alone cannot overcome deficits of that magnitude, and I am no unicum to begin with.

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bewbs_ #49 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:26 PM

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Well hey at least you didn't just quit when you spawned in because tier 10... Had an Atago just last night, spawn then say "I'm not wasting my time with this tier 10 camp fest" then left (SHOCKER, he was pink).... well lucky for him we stomped the team, man last night was rough for a weekday night.

 

I also don't mind +-2 MM for the most part, though as others have stated, it happens too often.. I would also like a test of +1-1 just too see what its like.


Edited by bewbs_, 18 May 2017 - 05:28 PM.


Battlecruiser_Tiger #50 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:34 PM

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View Postbewbs_, on 18 May 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

Well hey at least you didn't just quit when you spawned in because tier 10... Had an Atago just last night, spawn then say "I'm not wasting my time with this tier 10 camp fest" then left (SHOCKER, he was pink).... well lucky for him we stomped the team, man last night was rough for a weekday night.

 

I also don't mind +-2 MM for the most part, though as others have stated, it happens too often.. I would also like a test of +1-1 just too see what its like.

 

I once had a guy in a match sail directly into the arms of the enemy because our team had 2 Nagatos, and that's "the worst boat in the game, so we're going to lose anyway, so I'd rather just die quickly." People never cease to amaze. Never. 

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Destroyer_Kiyoshimo #51 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:39 PM

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View PostBattlecruiser_Tiger, on 18 May 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

 

Same. Last night it was just abominable - one defeat after another, all while I was sailing a ship downtiered twice. Every so often, I do make a significant impact in those matches, even when I'm handicapped in such a way. But it isn't common - it can't be; Warspite is not equal to Alabama; Tirpitz isn't equivalent to Yamato. Skill alone cannot overcome deficits of that magnitude, and I am no unicum to begin with.

 

Yeah I've been tracking this.

 

View PostDestroyer_Kiyoshimo, on 17 May 2017 - 08:42 PM, said:

I've been recording my matches since last week.

 

out of 32 matches in tiers 5-8, I have been bottom tier 29 times. Tier doesn't matter, chances are I'll be bottom.

 

Tier 5? Fought tier 7s 8/8 times.

Tier 6? Fight tier 8s 8/9 times.

Tier 7? Fight tier 9s 9/10 times.

Tier 8? Fight tier 10s 4/5 times.

 

Bonus round: my 3 tier 9 games were all in tier 10 matches as well.

 

It makes me not want to play anymore. I'm not good enough at this game to find this kind of deck-stacking fun.

 


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KaptainKaybe #52 Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:51 PM

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View PostSkpstr, on 18 May 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

 

That's not a high-tier thing really, so much as a CL thing.

 

No, it's a CA problem too.

 

The difference between tier 8 and tier 9, when it comes to cruisers, is HUGE. In large part due to the reload mod and Repair Party.

 

Hipper has has eight guns firing every 13 seconds. Roon has nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

Same applies to New Orleans, although in a less obvious way. Nine guns firing every 12 seconds compared to Baltimore's nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

 

Seriously, Tier 8 cruisers NEED Repair Party. NEED. New Orleans, Hipper and Mogami are not in a great place right now because they are going up against opponents who can all heal back from making mistakes. Hell, there are two DESTROYERS in their matchmaking spread that have Repair Party now. And having played NO and Hipper, I can absolutely tell you my ability to contribute was night and day between tiers 8 and 9.


Edited by KaptainKaybe, 18 May 2017 - 05:51 PM.


ryuukei8569 #53 Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:44 PM

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the way i see it there are several major probloems that are causing this uptiuer tenancy.

 

1. Crappy tier 9's. Most of the Tier 9's are pretty crappy, and they are nearly as expensive to run as a T10, so becuase of this, T9 is a rather unpopular tier with a lower population than 8 or 10, so when the T8's are uptiered, there aren't enough 9's around in the tiers so getting uptiered in an 8 almost always mean there will be 10's involved.

 

2. Crappy T8 cruisers. Most of the battleships and destroyers uptier fairly well. T8 battleships can handle fighting T10's very well as long as one of those T10 BB's isn't yamato. But the T8 cruisers are in general crappy, except for Kutuzov and maybe mogami and Endinburgh. Otherwise most of the others are pretty crappy, with New Orleans being god awful, and honestly that ship is a T7 more than a T8. I blame this trend back when Wargaming decided to switch the tiers of Mogami and myoko way beck before CBT, and yoko was actually a better cruiser than Mogami becuase of better rate of fire. and wargaming idiotically decided to continue this trend of making the T8's for some reason have less firepower than the T7's, becuase of the trend set by mogami and Myoko over 2 years ago. And they still haven't fully fixed it. Myoko's 8 inch DPM is still higher than Mogami's, and she has better HP, though only by a 100. But they have stubbornly kept this annoying trend of making the T8 cruisers have barely better firepower, and in some cases worse than the T7. Only the new french cruisers and the recent New Orleans buffs have broken this trend.  So T8 cruisers are a trainwreck and have been a trainwreck for a long time.

 

3. Unpopular T7's. Lets face it, T7 has never been a popular tier. No other tier in the game has had such a collection of garbage ships at t7. While some of them aren't garbage any more, ships that are garbage or have been garbage include, Colorado, Pensacola, Mahan, Ranger, the old T7 hatsuharu, and Yorck, while Hyriu and Nagato are both pretty meh. So as a result, T7 isn't exactly the most popular tier, i would say the T8 population is much larger than T7. Not to mention Nagato and Colorado uptier absolutely horribly because of their 25 mm bow plates making them so vulnerable to overmatch so that alone makes them less than the most popular.

 

4. Making T4 protected. This one really messed with T5 MM because it put the T5s at the -1/+2. Combined with the fact that T5's are relatively popular, there arent enough T4's alone of facilitate a lot of matches where T5's are top tier. And naturally this affected the 6's as well. So the already limited population of T7's is almost always pulled into matches where they are top tier, not leaving enough 6's and 7's for the T8's to draw on.

 

Honestly the fix that needs to be applied here is removal of protected MM for the low tiers. New players already have protected MM where their first 20 to 50 matches they are only matched with other new players, so making T1 having exclusive MM was completely redundant. They never should have done that. So what they need to do is restore the Tier 1's to their original state then allow them to be tiered with T2's. End the protected MM at T3, so T3's will see 5's again, but buff the range for many of the T3's so they uptier better. Shouldn't be necessary for the T3 battleships as one of the reasons they uptiered so poorly was their limited range. That's not a problem anymore, they can handle uptiering better now. this will unfuck the MM for T4 and 5 and end the damn domino Effect.

 

Fix T7 and 9, for the love of god make those ships at those tiers that are still noncompetitive, make them competitive, and really this need to apply to all tiers. some tiers have a greater amount of crappy ships than others, and when that happens it creates unbalanced tier populations and contributes to certain tiers getting uptiered more often than others.. Likewise, fix the T8 cruisers. Buff their DPM so they are no longer out DPM'ed by the T7 cruisers and give all of them except Kutuzov a heal.

 

 


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Skpstr #54 Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:00 PM

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View PostKaptainKaybe, on 18 May 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

 

No, it's a CA problem too.

 

The difference between tier 8 and tier 9, when it comes to cruisers, is HUGE. In large part due to the reload mod and Repair Party.

 

Hipper has has eight guns firing every 13 seconds. Roon has nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

Same applies to New Orleans, although in a less obvious way. Nine guns firing every 12 seconds compared to Baltimore's nine guns firing every 8.8 seconds + Repair Party.

 

Seriously, Tier 8 cruisers NEED Repair Party. NEED. New Orleans, Hipper and Mogami are not in a great place right now because they are going up against opponents who can all heal back from making mistakes. Hell, there are two DESTROYERS in their matchmaking spread that have Repair Party now. And having played NO and Hipper, I can absolutely tell you my ability to contribute was night and day between tiers 8 and 9.

 

True. I had forgotten about the heal. I know it sure makes a difference when I play Leander or Spee.


 


Xenomancers #55 Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:15 PM

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I think it's pretty obvious why uptiering occurs - there are less games being played in low tier ships.

Edited by Xenomancers, 18 May 2017 - 07:16 PM.

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Eichbomb #56 Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:24 PM

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View PostUlthwey, on 17 May 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

Normally I can put up with the wonderful piss pour excuse for an abortion that WG titles "matchmaking". This past weekend however, I decided to play tier 8s to check just how bad the matchmaking is for this particular tier - and I was simply appalled by what I just experienced. I played 11 games in a row in a tier 8, and got tier X matchmaking in all 11/11 games that I played. I played solo, during about 6-7pm central time when there are plenty of people online so server depopulation is NOT supposed to be an issue. Nevertheless, in 11/11 games I ended up being bottom tier.

 

In regards to win/loss ratio, that is not a concern at least for myself. However what I experienced did strike a nerve in particular to the extend to which tier 8 is f*cked over in this game. According to WG matchmaking is working the way it should ... so yea, apparently sh*tting on its players without having the decency of calling it rain is the new norm for WG.

 

Just fyi ...

Stop complaining and see it as an opportunity for better rewards. You get more xp and credits for damaging ships higher tier than you. Don't be a fool and take on t10 ships alone as an 8. Any bad results at that point are your fault.



NashW8 #57 Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:24 PM

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Being top tier is not always what it's cracked up to be. You carry more responsibility to win the match and naturally some poor decision or an unfortunate spread of torps from some up-tiered wannabe curtails your ambitions. I'd rather be up-tiered and surpass expectations. 

Sakuzhi #58 Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:39 PM

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View PostNashW8, on 18 May 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

Being top tier is not always what it's cracked up to be. You carry more responsibility to win the match and naturally some poor decision or an unfortunate spread of torps from some up-tiered wannabe curtails your ambitions. I'd rather be up-tiered and surpass expectations. 

 

eh, it's one thing to get bottom tiered from time to time. It's another if that's all you get, then furthermore, if you get the 5+ DD a side match at T8-10 in your NC.

 

Just..bleh, 


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Crucis #59 Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:54 PM

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View PostPrushn, on 17 May 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

It was a long tough day in tier 8. Bismarck fared better than my NC, but both suffered. Just had to suck it up and keep going. The thing that's been helping me is ignoring the stats as best I can and just try to play better than the last game.

 

Oddly enough, I don't have much of any trouble with my Bismarck grind, whether top of bottom tier. There's a rather simple tactic for generating consistent damage even against t10 BBs.  When you have anything other than a perfect broadside shot on a BB, aim for the superstructure, particularly against German BBs. If your aim is good and you're good at angling your armor and evading enemy fire (as best as you can in a battleship, of course), you can produce solid damage production games even when you're bottom tier.

 



ryuukei8569 #60 Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:03 PM

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View PostSakuzhi, on 18 May 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

 

eh, it's one thing to get bottom tiered from time to time. It's another if that's all you get, then furthermore, if you get the 5+ DD a side match at T8-10 in your NC.

 

Just..bleh, 

 

To be honest, dealing with 5+ torpedo oriented DD's is a lot easier in NC than a T10 BB' because NC is so much more maneuverable.

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