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Tier levels in battles

ship tier mismatch

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Crucis #21 Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:25 PM

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View PostTaylor3006, on 19 May 2017 - 01:51 AM, said:

View PostCrucis, on 19 May 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

Taylor, I can't speak for the majority of the community, but I will say this. Being 2 tiers down in wows is not nearly as difficult as the posters make it out to be. Certainly not as difficult as in world of tanks. Wows could use a I'm tweak similar to the recent wot tweak where battles that included tanks that were two tiers down would have those -2 tier tanks represent about half the team so that there are plenty of bottom tier tanks to shoot. It seems like a good idea that wows could use.

 

 

I appreciate your response but again, I point out the obvious. There are thousands of posts on the forum that disagree with this. It has been a miserable experience for me personally as well. I was bow first and in reverse at range trying to escape a Tirpitz today in my Murmansk (or Marblehead I forget) and was deleted by him. I am unfamiliar with WoT honestly, seems from your description that something similarly could be done here but really again, I am pretty ignorant of WoT gameplay. BTW it might have been the other German battleship like the Tirpitz, begins with an S. I get the two confused lots.

 

Taylor, either you were in a fail division or you're mistaken about being in a tier FIVE cruiser facing a tier EIGHT BB.  Tier 5's should never ever be facing tier 8 ships, unless they're in fail divisions. And yes, you might be thinking of the Scharnhorst, which is a tier 7 German premium BB.

 

That said, I generally think that one can be reasonably successful even when bottom tier and 2 tiers down, though there are some exceptions.  Certain ships are poorly suited to being 2 tiers down, such as the Marblehead (though not the Murmansk).  The Marblehead's problem is the short range of its guns.  OTOH, the Murmansk's guns have sufficient range that the ship can hang out near max range and get good hits while dodging incoming fire.  But also, it's best when you're bottom tier to try to avoid drawing attention to yourself.  Try to fight and support higher tier team mates, in the hope that they'll be seen as bigger threats than your little ole bottom tier ship.

 



Crucis #22 Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:32 PM

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Goomypoop, on 19 May 2017 - 03:10 AM, said:

I agree with you Taylor3006. It is more a ship class thing with the 'is the lower tier at too much a disadvantage' vs the ship +2 tiers above it. With DDs, I agree that +/- 2 tiers is only a detection advantage between the ships. However, with the BBs, my Tier 5 USN BB is out run by any one elses Tier 7 and many times outranged. therefore, I am in a disadvantage with those ships. As far as 'changing play style ' and attacking with ships where you are not the focus....Have you seen the "team" play lately in the Random matches?! Comes down to the fact that a Bayern (Jutland ship) vs a North Caralina (mid WW2 ship) CAN'T be considered a 'fair' match by anyone not high on drugs or their own opinions.As for

 

Goomy, this point is one of the problems that tier 5 and 6 BBs have when bottom tier.  And it's worse for tier 6 BBs (except for the Dunkerque, I suppose) because all tier 8 BBs are fairly fast, while nearly all tier 6 BBs are fairly slow.  That said, if you can get your tier 5 or 6 BBs into engagement range of  those higher tier BB's, your guns can still be useful, if you know where to aim.  I've had 100+k damage games in tier 6 BB's in tier 8 battles before, so it's not like a tier 6 BB can't compete when bottom tier.  You just have to work around your weaknesses (speed in particular).

 

As for your Bayern vs NC comparison, it's not about it being a "fair match".  Of course, the NC is a better BB.  But that does NOT mean that the Bayern can't do some major damage to the NC and perhaps even sink it, if you know what you're doing.  You have to fight your fight, not his.  Don't get in a sniping duel at mid range.  Try to find a way to get to close range using terrain, and try to not let the NC fight you bow-on.  Try to get to its side.  Fight to your strengths, not his.

 

 



Umikami #23 Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:36 PM

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View PostCruiser_kebobstuzov, on 18 May 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

for queue time reasons and the fact that T8s can hold their own in T10 [just gotta adjust playstyle] it seems clear that the majority of the community does NOT want to see +1/-1 MM for anything except CV's. now that I have essex and hakuryu, its not a huge issue but grinding up low tier planes cant handle 2 tier above AA. protect MM for CV sure but nobody else. its been debated over and over.

 

I disagree with this conclusion; I believe most of the WoW player population lives with and tolerates the current matchmaking setup while wishing WoW would implement something better. I'm pretty sure if you ask any tier 5 or 6 player what he or she thinks about the current setup they'll say tier +1 matchmaking would be much better. I understand you don't want your planes ground up by superior AA; do you think New York drivers want their BB's chewed up by Scharnhorsts? That Omaha drivers want to face Belfasts?

+2 matchmaking is broken and needs to be replaced by +1 across the boards.


Edited by Umikami, 19 May 2017 - 02:44 PM.


Crucis #24 Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:18 PM

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Umikami, I disagree that +/-2 tiers mm is "broken". When you're two tiers down, of course it's going to be difficult.  But if you can learn to deal with the challenge, you can earn more xp being bottom tier than you would if you were top tier. So instead of looking as it as a reason to whine, look at it as a challenge to be faced.

 


Edited by Crucis, Yesterday, 11:38 PM.


Taylor3006 #25 Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:25 AM

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View PostCrucis, on 19 May 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

Umikami, I disagree that +/-2 tiers mm is "broken". When you're two tiers down, of course it's going to be difficult.  But if you can learn to deal with the challenge, you can earn more xp being bottom tier than you would if you were top tier. So I stead of looking as it as a reason to whine, look at it as a challenge to be faced.

 

 

LOL in other words get good? That is a pitiful argument in favor of +2/-2. Of players of equal skill it puts the lower tiered player at a disadvantage from the start. For players of unequal skill, you know the ones in lower tiered ships, it puts the better player in a better ship at a huge advantage. Lets just remove all tier restrictions, am sure that someone out there can take their Kuma and whoop an Yamamoto. It is easily unfair, to argue otherwise is horse feces. IMHO people who are a bit better than average enjoy having lowered tiered ships captained by lessor captains to pad their stats. The playing field starts off unequal and that is not a good thing. BTW I am not whining alone, you only have to look at the freaking forums to see that there are THOUSANDS of posts on how repugnant the MM is. BTW thanks for pointing out the error I tried to correct without changing my previous post. I don't division anymore, haven't in a very long time. It was the Scharnhorst that smacked my Murmansk around, a Tirptiz bitchslapped me in my tier 6 French cruiser thru the bow as well. I suppose I need to adapt the play style that is so common in PvP, hide behind a rock somewhere and don't get detected. Unfortunately that makes the game boring IMHO, and the whole point of a game is to have fun. 

Edited by Taylor3006, 20 May 2017 - 01:31 AM.


Umikami #26 Posted 20 May 2017 - 02:56 PM

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View PostCrucis, on 19 May 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

Umikami, I disagree that +/-2 tiers mm is "broken". When you're two tiers down, of course it's going to be difficult.  But if you can learn to deal with the challenge, you can earn more xp being bottom tier than you would if you were top tier. So I stead of looking as it as a reason to whine, look at it as a challenge to be faced.

 

 

That was the argument that should have been used when they first screwed up matchmaking to the point it is now. While some ships, and some Captains, can handle being uptiered + 2, many cannot. Wasn't this the very reason that preferential matchmaking was implemented through tier 4 in the first place? What I am asking for is nothing more than leveling the playing field for everyone, and making the game more enjoyable and more competitive for all those players whose stats are not purple.

I fail to understand why any player would be opposed to a matchmaking meta which more evenly places ships waiting for a match into games.

(unless that player was afraid of losing his good stats when he lost his sealclubbing abilities)

The game, because that is what this is all about; a game; the game is supposed to be FUN.

NOT WORK!

 


Edited by Umikami, 20 May 2017 - 02:59 PM.


mmfullen #27 Posted 20 May 2017 - 03:13 PM

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Just think of all that extra potential damage you can do! You just have to bring the right tool for the job. Whether that's the ship you're an ace in or your own positive attitude is up to you to provide.

 

Unless it's Epicenter on Tears of the Desert...in which there is no hope. lol


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Cruiser_kebobstuzov #28 Posted 20 May 2017 - 05:36 PM

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I recall a T8 match in my Nurnberg here. I was -2 MM here and pulled off 171k damage, currently 10th on the server. This would not be possible if I hadn't been facing T8 becuase there is more HP to do. It allows certain ships to behave very differently and be played with care or reckless abandon depending on MM. I love playing as bottom tier in kamikaze, okhotnik, Krasny Krym, etc.. Saying you got citted while bow reversing in a murmansk weakens your arguments. If you're bow reversing in a Murmansk is proves you know very little about how to play WoWs..
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Taylor3006 #29 Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:58 PM

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View PostCruiser_kebobstuzov, on 20 May 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

I recall a T8 match in my Nurnberg here. I was -2 MM here and pulled off 171k damage, currently 10th on the server. This would not be possible if I hadn't been facing T8 becuase there is more HP to do. It allows certain ships to behave very differently and be played with care or reckless abandon depending on MM. I love playing as bottom tier in kamikaze, okhotnik, Krasny Krym, etc.. Saying you got citted while bow reversing in a murmansk weakens your arguments. If you're bow reversing in a Murmansk is proves you know very little about how to play WoWs..

 

LOL I guess I don't huh? The fact you even know where to go to find out where you stand compared to rest of the players on the server tells me all I need to know about you as well. No going bow on is not my preferred tactic in my Omahas, I couldn't turn because of rocks. Supporting the DDs when I am in a CA is kinda what I like to do. The enemy DD had me spotted and the enemy BB wasn't hiding behind a rock in the back so I was boned.... Anyways it hardly matters, the fact that there are hundreds of threads and thousands of posts complaining about +2/-2 MM in this forum and on Reddit supports my argument that it isn't popular... The fact that you can do well is good for you, glad you are happy with it. Guessing you like the rocks too but thanks for the advice, will put it with the other lovely bits like "don't show broadsides" and "git gud"......

Troa_Barton #30 Posted Yesterday, 01:00 AM

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View PostTaylor3006, on 20 May 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

 

LOL I guess I don't huh? The fact you even know where to go to find out where you stand compared to rest of the players on the server tells me all I need to know about you as well. No going bow on is not my preferred tactic in my Omahas, I couldn't turn because of rocks. Supporting the DDs when I am in a CA is kinda what I like to do. The enemy DD had me spotted and the enemy BB wasn't hiding behind a rock in the back so I was boned.... Anyways it hardly matters, the fact that there are hundreds of threads and thousands of posts complaining about +2/-2 MM in this forum and on Reddit supports my argument that it isn't popular... The fact that you can do well is good for you, glad you are happy with it. Guessing you like the rocks too but thanks for the advice, will put it with the other lovely bits like "don't show broadsides" and "git gud"......

But really, git gud..

STOP PLAYING SQUISHY CRUISERS IF YOU DON'T (or can't) DO WELL IN THEM!

All you're doing is tormenting yourself and then coming onto the forms to complain about your inadequacies.

 

Sick of players that can't or won't take responsibility for their shortcomings, sometimes it is the team sure but usually its our own mistakes.

Yes you should help DDs in a cruiser but it shouldn't be at your peril, stay close enough (key word there) but far enough away to be safe, able to maneuver, or use cover, smoke, ect.

DO NOT GO OUT FIRST WITHOUT AN IMMEDIATE ESCAPE. You. Will. Die. Don't do it.

Be vigilant of your surroundings, enemy locations especially BBs, enemy pushes / retreats, your team's location / movements, know when its time to engage or retreat, play the objective, and pick your targets.

Go where you are strong, flee from where you are weak, support who can make you strong, and never tank. Play to your cruiser's strengths and mitigate it's weaknesses, all cruisers play differently.

Cruisers, especially light cruisers are one of the most skill intensive classes to play everything can hurt you but you can hurt everything else.

Look at the team comp of both teams take note of what you should avoid, and what you should seek out. See who you need to support and where best to do so when the game starts.

In truth one of the classes that does the best when up tiered are cruisers, fire does percentage damage, you don't need to pen in order to light a fire, you still annihilate DDs, and all BBs can still delete you nothing new.

 

You have to pay attention and always be in the right spot at the right time you cant force situations in a cruiser like you can in a battleship.

But most importantly don't forget that YOU ARE A SUPPORT SHIP let the dd detect the other destroyer, help take out that DD THEN proceed to help with the BB. If all your DDs are dead help your battleships deal with what prevents you from scouting out the dd and help sink the other BBs / CAs before scouting the DD. Sure a BB will want you to take out the DD first and if you see one you should shoot it, but I promise you that the BBs want you alive to kill the DD eventually than to die trying and failing.

Again YOU CAN'T FORCE SITUATIONS, YOU ARE A SUPPORT SHIP.

DDs and CVs should be the ones that scout in hostile situations it only becomes your job when it is safe to do so.

 

If you want to get better then the next time you get deleted ask yourself "what could I have done better throughout the game?" "Why did I die?" "what mistakes did our team make (myself included) to lead to this result?".

Sometimes it is your team, you will have a BB at the map border sniping, a stealthy DD that refuses to scout or take caps, A CV that has no idea what fighters are for, or a full compliment of lemmings that have no idea what the outside of A cap looks like. But most of the time its a small mistake here and there that add up to you not playing correctly and very seldom the tier difference.

 

So be the master of your own destiny and take responsibility for it. It isn't worth getting so worked up over, learn from your mistakes and hit that battle button again.

 

Closing words of advice, play other classes especially battleships, learn what its like to be on the other side of the barrels. See what it is that cruisers do that make you want to shoot them, see how they can be effective against you and incorporate it into your play.

Don't play long range support cruisers as front line dd support ships, that is not what they are designed for.. If you want that type of playstyle look into British cruisers. Be wary that British cruisers have probably the highest skill cap of all cruisers so you will need to have gotten gud beforehand.

Be self critical and listen to others that are trying to help, be open minded about changing your tactics, never stop learning, stop being toxic and remember that the other people on your team may be learning too.

In the words of Bruce Lee, "be like water".

 

So you can write this off as me just telling you to "git gud" and being another "unicorn highborn" or you can listen and learn from it. I will be the first to tell you that I am not the best player but I am always learning and adapting.

 

Hope this helps you.


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Taylor3006 #31 Posted Yesterday, 04:39 AM

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Was gonna quote Troa but wall of text... Guessing you haven't read the thread, never complained about cruisers. My complaint, my one and only complaint, is the +2/-2 MM which is inherently unfair. I am sorry you can not understand that, I thought I had made that clear over and over and over. I love cruisers, I do well in cruisers when fighting ships of my tier and up one. Have no problems, understand the ships, can battle with the rest of them and don't care to take BBs or CVs into PvP. Thats pretty much it, hope I made it clear for ya. 

Player_9953674122 #32 Posted Yesterday, 05:14 AM

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I've been playing for 4 months and still have a lot to learn. While I am improving (1 Solo Warrier and 3 Krakens), T5 is my highest level and the least amount of fun. I think both sides are correct. If you are an accomplished player you can manage +2. If you are an advanced newbie it can be tough.

 

I have greatly improved my long-range aiming by playing against T7 and that is a big plus. But right now I don't know if I will want to progress to T6 and higher. It's just more fun at T4.


 

I would be happier at T5 if T7 showed up only 25% of the time instead of 50%.



Troa_Barton #33 Posted Yesterday, 01:03 PM

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View PostTaylor3006, on 21 May 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

Was gonna quote Troa but wall of text... Guessing you haven't read the thread, never complained about cruisers. My complaint, my one and only complaint, is the +2/-2 MM which is inherently unfair. I am sorry you can not understand that, I thought I had made that clear over and over and over. I love cruisers, I do well in cruisers when fighting ships of my tier and up one. Have no problems, understand the ships, can battle with the rest of them and don't care to take BBs or CVs into PvP. Thats pretty much it, hope I made it clear for ya. 

 

I'll just quote myself since you obviously didn't read it. "But most of the time its a small mistake here and there that add up to you not playing correctly and very seldom the tier difference."

If you don't want to take other classes into PVP have fun beating your head against a wall.

You want to write off my attempt to help and insist you know what you're doing fine but I looked up your stats, that's all I'm going to say.

You do you boo boo.

 

View PostPlayer_9953674122, on 21 May 2017 - 05:14 AM, said:

I've been playing for 4 months and still have a lot to learn. While I am improving (1 Solo Warrier and 3 Krakens), T5 is my highest level and the least amount of fun. I think both sides are correct. If you are an accomplished player you can manage +2. If you are an advanced newbie it can be tough.

 

I have greatly improved my long-range aiming by playing against T7 and that is a big plus. But right now I don't know if I will want to progress to T6 and higher. It's just more fun at T4.


 

I would be happier at T5 if T7 showed up only 25% of the time instead of 50%.

Congrats on the achievements!

Level headed, actively improving, you will go far keep it up!

As far as tiers go, tier 7 and 8 is really where the ships come into their own. You will learn faster when the stakes are higher, the ships are more accurate, with more tools at your disposal. What I'm getting at is find a class and nation you do well in and give it a go. There's nothing wrong with going back down to low tiers to hone your skills if you feel you need or want to.

Examples of ships that really start to get good at mid-high tier off the top of my head are:

New Mexico, Colorado, North Carolina, Akatsuki, Kagero, Shiratsuyu, Akizuki, Mahan, Benson, Kiev, Leander, Fiji, Shchors, Chapayev, Bayern, Gneisenau, Bismark, Hiryu, Fuso, Nagato, Amagi, cleveland, Pensacola (very underrated ship), New Orleans, and Hipper to name a few fun and strong mid-high tier ships worth the grind.

 

I'm not sure what kind of ships you play or what your stats are to offer any recommendations as your stats are hidden. That said if you want a taste of what higher tier ships can offer at low tier try the Furutaka Tier 5 IJN cruiser. Upgrade the guns and use AP ammo on cruisers for giggles especially when they are broadside. It isn't as stealthy, as armored, nor does it have the range of the higher tiers but you can get some really enjoyable games out of her. She gets 203mm guns at tier 5 which is the same caliber you get on most cruisers at tier 7, they can punch right through cruiser armor even when angled. Her guns turn very slowly so be sure to get priority target and expert marksman on your captain.


Edited by Troa_Barton, Yesterday, 01:04 PM.

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Player_9953674122 #34 Posted Yesterday, 02:40 PM

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Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Just got a Furutaka and started playing against robots while I learn to handle it with my 3 point captain. I left my 11 point captain in Kuma. I like to kill sneaky destroyers but the slower ROF makes this harder than in Kuma, although if DD is broadside one volley is enough. Also the slower rudder makes it more difficult to avoid torps. But I assume I will improve with practice.

 

 

 

My stats are poor- 47% lifetime. I judge my improvement by looking at my best games. Have gone from a max of 0 ships killed and 0 damage to a max of 6 ships killed and 75K damage in T4 cruisers Kuma and Phoenix. I drive  Murmansk in T5 random games and can now aim using the spotter plane but still do better in T4.



Taylor3006 #35 Posted Yesterday, 05:01 PM

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Ok thanks pookie? Nothing better than unsolicited advice from strangers who tell me what I have said. I think the thread you meant to post on was the "Cruisers are Weak" thread.. Yes it is a real thread. BTW Troa, haven't bothered to look up your "stats" because they are meaningless when you contaminate the sample. Always check someone's ranked stats where only ships of one tier are competing. Much better sampling of someones talent even though it can be tainted by the actions of others. 


Edited by Taylor3006, Yesterday, 05:05 PM.


db4100 #36 Posted Yesterday, 07:48 PM

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I have given this solution before....match maker should be adaptable to the amount of players available.  When there is a high number of players then MM should take the time to make more balanced matches ie no more than a one tier difference.  When the player numbers are low, then is it back to the 2 tier difference.

 

Most of the time the a player is in the que for mere seconds, and can we all agree that waiting 2-3 minutes to be placed into an even match is not a problem.  I won't mind waiting a few minutes for an even match.



Crucis #37 Posted Yesterday, 11:51 PM

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View PostTaylor3006, on 19 May 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

View PostCrucis, on 19 May 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

Umikami, I disagree that +/-2 tiers mm is "broken". When you're two tiers down, of course it's going to be difficult.  But if you can learn to deal with the challenge, you can earn more xp being bottom tier than you would if you were top tier. So I stead of looking as it as a reason to whine, look at it as a challenge to be faced.

 

 

LOL in other words get good? That is a pitiful argument in favor of +2/-2. Of players of equal skill it puts the lower tiered player at a disadvantage from the start. For players of unequal skill, you know the ones in lower tiered ships, it puts the better player in a better ship at a huge advantage. Lets just remove all tier restrictions, am sure that someone out there can take their Kuma and whoop an Yamamoto. It is easily unfair, to argue otherwise is horse feces. IMHO people who are a bit better than average enjoy having lowered tiered ships captained by lessor captains to pad their stats. The playing field starts off unequal and that is not a good thing. BTW I am not whining alone, you only have to look at the freaking forums to see that there are THOUSANDS of posts on how repugnant the MM is. BTW thanks for pointing out the error I tried to correct without changing my previous post. I don't division anymore, haven't in a very long time. It was the Scharnhorst that smacked my Murmansk around, a Tirptiz bitchslapped me in my tier 6 French cruiser thru the bow as well. I suppose I need to adapt the play style that is so common in PvP, hide behind a rock somewhere and don't get detected. Unfortunately that makes the game boring IMHO, and the whole point of a game is to have fun. 

 

Taylor, I don't want to sound like some arrogant unicum, because I'm just an average player, but that's just it.  I am an average player and I don't have the much difficulty playing most ships when 2 tiers down.  So yes, there's an element of "get good", but not to the degree of reaching a unicum level of talent.  Just get average good.  Understand how to fight all your ships when you're down 2 tiers and you'll do better.  Learn not to make avoidable mistakes and then blame being 2 tiers down rather than the fact that it was your mistake rather than mm that got your ship trashed.

 

And yes, I know that there are a lot of posts whining about /-2 tier MM.  Honestly, I think that the majority of them are made by below average players who are blaming MM for their bad results rather than accepting that they're making too many mistakes and better players are taking advantage of those mistakes and giving them a paddling (as Jingles would say).

 

Also, you don't need to hide behind rocks and fire undetected to succeed.  I play cruisers fairly often and never do this, except perhaps in the Atlanta.  Success in a cruiser, whether top or bottom tier usually comes down to fighting at a great enough range that you can dodge incoming fire as best you can.  There are plenty of youtube videos of cruisers fighting BBs and making their lives miserable because the CA players know how to limit the number of hits they take from enemy BB's by constantly bobbing and weaving to dodge incoming fire, even when bottom tier.  It can be done.

 

.

 

 



Crucis #38 Posted Yesterday, 11:59 PM

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View PostTaylor3006, on 20 May 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

Was gonna quote Troa but wall of text... Guessing you haven't read the thread, never complained about cruisers. My complaint, my one and only complaint, is the +2/-2 MM which is inherently unfair. I am sorry you can not understand that, I thought I had made that clear over and over and over. I love cruisers, I do well in cruisers when fighting ships of my tier and up one. Have no problems, understand the ships, can battle with the rest of them and don't care to take BBs or CVs into PvP. Thats pretty much it, hope I made it clear for ya. 

 

I'm guessing that you weren't around when WoWS had a +/-3 tier spread. You could have tier 7 BBs facing Yamatos.  You think that +/-2 is bad, you should have tried +/-3.  I had to face a Yammy in a Colorado and was unable to get pens.  So rather than complaining about MM, I just started spamming HE and did a very respectable amount of damage because I hung back and let the enemy Yammy worry more about the much closer high tier BBs and I played my tier 7 BB as a HE spamming support ship.

 

Honestly, Taylor, I really think that you're too focused on complaining about unfairness and not enough on how can you adapt to the situation to contribute to your team.  It's no different in World of Tanks.  When you're bottom tier, don't worry about  being the big dog who tries to carry the team.  Just do what you can to support the team's higher tier ships and the team's efforts to win..

 



Troa_Barton #39 Posted Today, 12:37 AM

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View PostPlayer_9953674122, on 21 May 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Just got a Furutaka and started playing against robots while I learn to handle it with my 3 point captain. I left my 11 point captain in Kuma. I like to kill sneaky destroyers but the slower ROF makes this harder than in Kuma, although if DD is broadside one volley is enough. Also the slower rudder makes it more difficult to avoid torps. But I assume I will improve with practice.

 

 

 

My stats are poor- 47% lifetime. I judge my improvement by looking at my best games. Have gone from a max of 0 ships killed and 0 damage to a max of 6 ships killed and 75K damage in T4 cruisers Kuma and Phoenix. I drive  Murmansk in T5 random games and can now aim using the spotter plane but still do better in T4.

 

You are most welcome :)

It's a lot different from the Kuma especially in ROF but once you get used to those guns going back to the smaller caliber is hard to enjoy. Because the Furutaka has those big guns they had to detune it a bit to make it more balanced.

You want to stay a little further back than you did with the Kuma the slower rudder and turrets make it stronger at mid to long range. If you end up getting concealment expert you want to engage at your detection falloff radius so that if it gets too hot you can disappear and reengage at your leisure. After the Furutaka IJN cruisers are best suited to burn bbs and citadel cruisers, they are very good at killing dds but those are more targets of opportunity than your main quarry.

 

75k in a T4 CL is respectable in a pvp game, I'd recommend playing more pvp its hard to lose money in low tiers and the rewards are notably larger in experience and credits. Bots are very predicable and just charge the closest ship making it difficult to ascertain your skills and the strengths of your ship.

 

View PostTaylor3006, on 21 May 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

 

Ok thanks pookie? Nothing better than unsolicited advice from strangers who tell me what I have said. I think the thread you meant to post on was the "Cruisers are Weak" thread.. Yes it is a real thread. BTW Troa, haven't bothered to look up your "stats" because they are meaningless when you contaminate the sample. Always check someone's ranked stats where only ships of one tier are competing. Much better sampling of someones talent even though it can be tainted by the actions of others. 

 

You are welcome schnookums.

You are so incredibly dense it hurts and boggles the mind. That was not at all what I was talking about with regard to cruisers.

Your ranked stats are even worse, you were doing better with a "tainted sample".

If you don't want advice from strangers you shouldn't be on the forums prattling on about how something is unfair.

It's an act of futility to converse with you further.

 

View Postdb4100, on 21 May 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

I have given this solution before....match maker should be adaptable to the amount of players available.  When there is a high number of players then MM should take the time to make more balanced matches ie no more than a one tier difference.  When the player numbers are low, then is it back to the 2 tier difference.

 

Most of the time the a player is in the que for mere seconds, and can we all agree that waiting 2-3 minutes to be placed into an even match is not a problem.  I won't mind waiting a few minutes for an even match.

 

It already does this to a degree but I do agree with what you are saying the tolerances are a bit too low, I also wouldn't mind waiting longer if it meant a better matchup.


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View PostCrucis, on 21 May 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

 

Taylor, I don't want to sound like some arrogant unicum, because I'm just an average player, but that's just it.  I am an average player and I don't have the much difficulty playing most ships when 2 tiers down.  So yes, there's an element of "get good", but not to the degree of reaching a unicum level of talent.  Just get average good.  Understand how to fight all your ships when you're down 2 tiers and you'll do better.  Learn not to make avoidable mistakes and then blame being 2 tiers down rather than the fact that it was your mistake rather than mm that got your ship trashed.

 

And yes, I know that there are a lot of posts whining about /-2 tier MM.  Honestly, I think that the majority of them are made by below average players who are blaming MM for their bad results rather than accepting that they're making too many mistakes and better players are taking advantage of those mistakes and giving them a paddling (as Jingles would say).

 

Also, you don't need to hide behind rocks and fire undetected to succeed.  I play cruisers fairly often and never do this, except perhaps in the Atlanta.  Success in a cruiser, whether top or bottom tier usually comes down to fighting at a great enough range that you can dodge incoming fire as best you can.  There are plenty of youtube videos of cruisers fighting BBs and making their lives miserable because the CA players know how to limit the number of hits they take from enemy BB's by constantly bobbing and weaving to dodge incoming fire, even when bottom tier.  It can be done.

 

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This ^

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