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Premiums and power creep, thoughts on premiums done right and not.


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_Caliph_ #41 Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:23 AM

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View Postissm, on 11 May 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

 

- Which is why I suggested that, you know, those premium ships be made available for free, in a difficult, but reasonable manner, a la Missouri, except without any premium bonuses.

 

But no, just because that wouldn't convince YOUR special snowflakeness to buy premium, it clearly would never work.

 

- Please, show how I'm using circular logic. You seem to be confusing "circular logic" with "feedback loop".

 

My logic is straightforwards and linear:

 

1) Online games are not fun if there are not sufficient people to play with

2) As B2P/S2P games lose players, the game slowly becomes less and less engaging.

  Ergo, fewer people > less fun > even fewer people > even less fun > etc.

3) The cause of this is completely irrelevant to the argument. It can be because people don't like the changes to the game, because they get sick of forum politics, whatever,

4) Free players solve this problem, by opening up the game to a huge new potential playerbase.

 

And sure, having too many free users for your paying players to support can absolutely be a problem, and pretending this isn't a valid problem is delusional. But pretending that free players are completely unnecessary is just as delusional.

 

If you want a successful game, you have to balance keeping your free players happy with converting enough of them to paying users to keep the lights on. Be too nice to the free players, and you risk running a deficit. Monetise too aggressively, and you risk losing your free playerbase. Both are bad for your game.

 

Selling objectively more powerful ships is a clear case of monetising too aggressively.

 

No, you do not have the right to acquire what others have paid for free. Particularly when those people who paid for the ships were not informed that option would become available. But beyond that it's not going to happen because all it will do is further reduce the number of spenders as they migrate to free players. Free players are not going to migrate to spenders after you give them an option to get everything free.

 

Your logic is straightforward and linear but completely devoid of reality and business acumen. I'm being harsh because you are being stubborn. I don't like that position because you are civil and I feel like a bully but you are just asking for things that aren't going to happen and you are intelligent enough to understand why.


Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 01:30 AM.


issm #42 Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:53 AM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 11 May 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

No, you do not have the right to acquire what others have paid for free. Particularly when those people who paid for the ships were not informed that option would become available. But beyond that it's not going to happen because all it will do is further reduce the number of spenders as they migrate to free players. Free players are not going to migrate to spenders after you give them an option to get everything free.

 

Your logic is straightforward and linear but completely devoid of reality and business acumen. I'm being harsh because you are being stubborn. I don't like that position because you are civil and I feel like a bully but you are just asking for things that aren't going to happen and you are intelligent enough to understand why.

 

I certainly have the right to acquire for free what others have paid for.

 

It's called the Missouri, or, for that matter, any other ship which can be acquired for Free EXP.

 

"Especially not if they were informed the free option would be available"?

 

Wrong again, it's called the ARP Takao, the Kamikaze ® (To a lesser degree, there was no reason to expect she would be offered as an earnable prize a second time), any ship ever offered as a contest prize or SC drop, and any ship available for doubloons (also to a lesser degree, as doubloons are available as various prizes).

 

As for your delusion that no one would pay for premiums if they could get the ships for free, would you care you explain why people convert free exp, or purchase FXP flags and premium time to grind her out?

 

I don't give a damn if you personally wouldn't do it, there are plenty of people who would.

 

~~~~~~

 

Devoid of business acumen?

 

I wonder what companies have used the model of offering free services to gain market share, and boost user base...... Oh, I don't know, maybe all of [edited]social media?

 

It's a pretty damn successful business model

 

Devoid of reality? You can go look at game after game that eventually go F2P in some form as they lose subscriber base.

 

Aion, EVE, Tera, ESO, and so on.

 

The market for sub based, or buy to play games only goes so far. Once a few major titles, say, WoW, or Overwatch take a majority market share of players willing to subscribe or buy the game, you NEED free players to make up the difference, or you'll be stuck with an online game with insufficient people playing it to make it a engaging experience.

 

For something as niche as WoWS, there probably isn't enough of a playerbase willing to support it via subs or B2P, period.


Edited by issm, 12 May 2017 - 01:58 AM.

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_Caliph_ #43 Posted 12 May 2017 - 02:39 AM

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View Postissm, on 11 May 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

 

I certainly have the right to acquire for free what others have paid for.

 

It's called the Missouri, or, for that matter, any other ship which can be acquired for Free EXP.

 

"Especially not if they were informed the free option would be available"?

 

Wrong again, it's called the ARP Takao, the Kamikaze ® (To a lesser degree, there was no reason to expect she would be offered as an earnable prize a second time), any ship ever offered as a contest prize or SC drop, and any ship available for doubloons (also to a lesser degree, as doubloons are available as various prizes).

 

As for your delusion that no one would pay for premiums if they could get the ships for free, would you care you explain why people convert free exp, or purchase FXP flags and premium time to grind her out?

 

I don't give a damn if you personally wouldn't do it, there are plenty of people who would.

 

~~~~~~

 

Devoid of business acumen?

 

I wonder what companies have used the model of offering free services to gain market share, and boost user base...... Oh, I don't know, maybe all of [edited]social media?

 

It's a pretty damn successful business model

 

Devoid of reality? You can go look at game after game that eventually go F2P in some form as they lose subscriber base.

 

Aion, EVE, Tera, ESO, and so on.

 

The market for sub based, or buy to play games only goes so far. Once a few major titles, say, WoW, or Overwatch take a majority market share of players willing to subscribe or buy the game, you NEED free players to make up the difference, or you'll be stuck with an online game with insufficient people playing it to make it a engaging experience.

 

For something as niche as WoWS, there probably isn't enough of a playerbase willing to support it via subs or B2P, period.

 

That's the exception Issm, not the rule. The people that may have paid had the same option you did earning it. Nor is it a right merely a privilege. The trip into your alternate reality is mentally taxing and at the end one comes out with nothing gained, none of your ideas implemented and still having to endure you saying the same things as if everything said to you was stated in an alien language. Social media is a successful business model? Zuckerberg still hasn't found a way to monetize facebook. Investors are hoping he finds a way and gambling on it. As of now ad revenue is all he has and his fortune is composed of other peoples money hoping he finds a way.

Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 03:31 AM.


issm #44 Posted 12 May 2017 - 02:43 AM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 11 May 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

I no longer have any valid criticisms or rebuttals, so I'm going to run away like a female dog while pretending I have the high ground.

 

Fixed it for you.


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_Caliph_ #45 Posted 12 May 2017 - 02:48 AM

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View Postissm, on 11 May 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

 

Fixed it for you.

 

No you didn't. The problem is you're a guy with no income, can't afford anything that you want, a limited education and you brow beat people with concepts that have no application in the real world. If they did you'd be earning your free ships right now instead of trying to convince everyone that allowing cheapskates and deadbeats to earn everything free would turn WG into a mega successful company with money that makes Microsoft jealous.


Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 02:49 AM.


issm #46 Posted 12 May 2017 - 02:52 AM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 11 May 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

My ideas are incapable of standing on their own merits,  so I'm going to take the idiot's way out and sling petty insults.

 

Fixed it for you

 

PS: Microsoft gave out a few billions dollars worth of Win10 for free last year, and probably loses billions on bundled installations of their OS, because Microsoft, unlike you, understands that in real life business, building and holding user base and market share is just as important as extracting money from their user base.


Edited by issm, 12 May 2017 - 02:53 AM.

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_Caliph_ #47 Posted 12 May 2017 - 02:54 AM

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View Postissm, on 11 May 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

 

Fixed it for you

 

PS: Microsoft gave out a few billions dollars worth of Win10 for free last year, and probably loses billions on bundled installations of their OS, because Microsoft, unlike you, understands that in real live business, building and holding user base and market share is just as important as extracting money from their user base.

 

Okay Issm now i'm reporting you for putting words I didn't say under my name. That isn't allowed on the forums. You've the lost the debate and you're raging and trolling and you called me a [edited]. You are starting to really piss me off.

 

Microsoft gave windows 10 to users that had a copy of Windows already you simpleton. They didn't go handing it out free to Linux users. Bundled installations are included in the price of new PCs. You can have the world's attention, marketshare, but if you have nothing to sell them because you give away free it means absolutely nothing. You are clueless.


Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 03:06 AM.


Battleship_Wisconsin #48 Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:03 AM

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Wow guys are you okay? Would any of you like a sandwich?

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issm #49 Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:04 AM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 11 May 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

Okay Issm now i'm reporting you for putting words I didn't say under my name. That isn't allowed on the forums. You've the lost the debate and you're raging and trolling and you called me a [edited]. You are starting to really piss me off.

 

Microsoft gave windows 10 to users that had a copy of Windows already you daft simpleton.

 

No, actually it is.

 

Impersonating WG staff is not allowed, the rules make no mention of impersonating other users.

 

Furthermore, you lost the debate when, as I pointed out, you fell to petty insults and "I'm bored and leaving". (Oh, and "whaaaa I'm running to the moderators" is yet another admission of defeat)

 

And as for Windows 10, while it was offered as a free upgrade to existing Windows users, it was a free offer that Microsoft DID NOT HAVE TO OFFER.

 

If you want to upgrade now, after the offer period, it's a paid product.

 

Furthermore, you ignore how MS offers their software bundled at steep discounts pre-installed on consumer PCs.

 

But if you don't like the MS example, I can simply point you towards Google and their Android OS, which they allowed phone manufacturers to use at zero cost.

 

View PostBattleship_Wisconsin, on 11 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

Wow guys are you okay? Would any of you like a sandwich?

 

Meatball sub, everything but tomatoes, thanks.


Edited by issm, 12 May 2017 - 03:06 AM.

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_Caliph_ #50 Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:07 AM

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View Postissm, on 11 May 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

 

No, actually it is.

 

Impersonating WG staff is not allowed, the rules make no mention of impersonating other users.

 

Furthermore, you lost the debate when, as I pointed out, you fell to petty insults and "I'm bored and leaving". (Oh, and "whaaaa I'm running to the moderators" is yet another admission of defeat)

 

And as for Windows 10, while it was offered as a free upgrade to existing Windows users, it was a free offer that Microsoft DID NOT HAVE TO OFFER.

 

If you want to upgrade now, after the offer period, it's a paid product.

 

Furthermore, you ignore how MS offers their software bundled at steep discounts pre-installed on consumer PCs.

 

But if you don't like the MS example, I can simply point you towards Google and their Android OS, which they allowed phone manufacturers to use at zero cost.

 

 

Meatball sub, everything but tomatoes, thanks.

 

Okay well you'll learn. You can not take someone's name and put under that as a quote something they did not say. When you get your warning consider that a pimp slap and a lesson learned.


 As for your endless examples don't bother. Because you aren't going to join the have's without expending the currency. You don't have to convince me, you have to convince WG. And you quite frankly can't convince the forum to pay attention to anything you write let alone a company to cut their own throat so you can have things you can't afford.


Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 03:12 AM.


issm #51 Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:12 AM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 11 May 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

Okay well you'll learn. You can not take someone's name and put under that as a quote something they did not say. When you get your warning and you will get one if I have to file a report on the actual website consider that a pimp slap and a lesson learned.

 

Please quote the rule I'm violating.

 

Oh, and while we're on rule violations, try this one:

 

"Certain content for names, avatars, images/video, signatures & clan logos, have no place on the World of Warships forums or within the World of Warships game, due to their extremely offensive, annoying or inappropriate nature.

 

The following list is only a summary, but it gives some idea of names, images, signatures, avatars and clan logos which are not accepted with the World of Warships environment:


Names, Avatars, Images/Video, Signatures & Clan logos ....

  • that contain reference to current mainstream religions that may create offense, i.e. names such as God, Jesus, Allah, etc."

 

I assume you know what a "Caliph" is, and the historical and modern baggage that goes along with it? 

 

People living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


Edited by issm, 12 May 2017 - 03:13 AM.

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_Caliph_ #52 Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:15 AM

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View Postissm, on 11 May 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

 

Please quote the rule I'm violating.

 

Oh, and while we're on rule violations, try this one:

 

"Certain content for names, avatars, images/video, signatures & clan logos, have no place on the World of Warships forums or within the World of Warships game, due to their extremely offensive, annoying or inappropriate nature.

 

The following list is only a summary, but it gives some idea of names, images, signatures, avatars and clan logos which are not accepted with the World of Warships environment:


Names, Avatars, Images/Video, Signatures & Clan logos ....

  • that contain reference to current mainstream religions that may create offense, i.e. names such as God, Jesus, Allah, etc."

 

I assume you know what a "Caliph" is, and the historical and modern baggage that goes along with it?

 

I've been through this before Issm. I've had people moderated for doing it. Every rule doesn't have to be listed to be applied. It's called common sense. I can attribute things to you to damage your reputation that you never said endlessly all day and you will never be able to keep up nor guarantee the people who took my fraud quotes seriously saw your correction. The reports are in. If you believe my name is in violation then do the same. Caliph, just like Mohammed and Jesus are personal names of millions of human beings on earth. There is no reference to religion or intent to offend, but as usual your room temperature IQ and petulant childlike demeanor has caused you to expose your idiocy.

Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 03:27 AM.


issm #53 Posted 12 May 2017 - 03:24 AM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 11 May 2017 - 10:15 PM, said:

I've been through this before Issm. I've had people moderated for doing it. Every rule doesn't have to be listed to be applied. It's called common sense. I can attribute things to you to damage your reputation that you never said endlessly all day and you will never be able to keep up nor guarantee the people who took my fraud quotes seriously saw your correction. The reports are in. If you believe my name is in violation then do the same.

 

Derailing threads also violates ToS, fyi.

 

Don't think I didn't notice you trying to steer the conversation away from your pathetic argument against F2P.

 

Unlike you, I'm not a coward who brags about abusing rules to silence opposing opinions.

 

So. Please. 

 

Explain why premium ships can not be given out for free, despite multiple examples of his happening, and explain why free users are permitted, despite not providing a revenue, if they are not necessary for the success f a game.

 

(Oh, and I'm also waiting for you to specify the rule I violated).


Edited by issm, 12 May 2017 - 03:28 AM.

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_Caliph_ #54 Posted 12 May 2017 - 08:41 PM

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View Postissm, on 11 May 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

 

I'm a deadbeat without a job and believe I should be given freely things others pay for. The world owes me a fair shot. If WG doesn't give me my way i'm going to continue to rant on the forums about how pay2win their game is even as I log in everyday to play.

 

It appears they have changed the rules Issm. I guess we can make people appear to have said something they didn't. It wasn't like that before. Ah, well. As for your comment, you certainly told the truth. It's admirable. But don't you want more out of life than living through the charity of others? To each their own I suppose.

Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 08:49 PM.


issm #55 Posted 12 May 2017 - 08:51 PM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 12 May 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

It appears they have changed the rules Issm. I guess we can make people appear to have said something they didn't. It wasn't like that before. Ah well. As for your comment, you certainly told the truth. It's admirable.

 

Yes yes, once again you demonstrate that you're a moronic blowhard with zero actual ideas, just a sense of entitlement just because you have a bit of money.

 

I pay for games, I just refuse to pay for WoWS with it's deceptive F2P advertising and refusal to properly balance premium ships.

 

Once again, you refuse to address the issue being discussed. Instead, you first try to run with your tail between your legs, while pretending you aren't ("I'm bored, laters"), then you turn to petty insults, then you try and get people who disagree with you BANNED rather than rebut their arguments.

 

Well, now that your pathetic attempt at abusing moderation seems to have failed, you're back to petty insults.

 

Here, let me remind you of the ideas you're supposed to be rebutting, should you ever decide to grow a pair. (Of brain cells, obviously):

 

- Why is it unacceptable to allow players to earn premium ships minus premium bonuses, despite this already being the case to several existing premiums

 

- Why are free players allowed to play these games if their presence is not necessary for the success of these games.


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_Caliph_ #56 Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:00 PM

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View Postissm, on 12 May 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

Man, look. I haven't worked a day in my life and i'm damn sure not going to start today. I'm living in the basement of my Mom's man what money I have left over that she gives me from her check I damn sure ain't spending on this crap game I play everyday.

 


Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 09:08 PM.


issm #57 Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:05 PM

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View Post_Caliph_, on 12 May 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

*petty insults*

 

Why is it unacceptable to allow players to earn premium ships minus premium bonuses, despite this already being the case to several existing premiums

 

Why are free players allowed to play these games if their presence is not necessary for the success of these games.

 

Got a problem with the game? Don't pay WG, and tell them why.

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_Caliph_ #58 Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:14 PM

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View Postissm, on 12 May 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

 

Man what do you mean pay my way is a part of being a responsible adult? Don't you know the key to a successful state is to have as many people as you can on the welfare system while the few work they asses off supporting them? It's efficient man. It means most people are living good!

 

 

That's interesting Issm. Your perspective is certainly unique.

Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 09:16 PM.


_Caliph_ #59 Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:21 PM

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It's annoying isn't Issm? To have someone use your name and change what you said? Don't worry i'll stop, not because I have to apparently, but because i'm not petulant child like you are.

Edited by _Caliph_, 12 May 2017 - 09:22 PM.


Madwolf05 #60 Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:23 PM

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ISSM mastered the art of being a child a long time ago. Just put him on ignore and let him argue with himself.

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