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Will the Harekaze be competitive?


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_Fantomex_ #21 Posted 09 May 2017 - 07:54 PM

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View PostDestroyer_Johnston, on 09 May 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

yes in the show the engine kept giving them trouble AKA why they were so late on the first episode was that they broke down and had to stop and fix it.

 

The Harekaze's gimmick is a 100% chance of having the engine taken out :trollface:

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bad_arcade_kitty #22 Posted 10 May 2017 - 02:43 AM

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it's a premium ship so she is likely to be made p2w strong for the upcoming ranked which mostly likely is t8

 

View PostJakajan, on 09 May 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

I'm posting from my phone right now so I may be brief. But do you all think the Harekaze will be able to hold it's own against the powerhouses of Benson and Akizuki? Much less Z 23?

 

From what we know Harekaze will have a 36 8 knit top speed. Torps should take 11 seconds longer than Kagero to reload but she will have 3 gun options. Either 3x1 American 54 caliber guns. Stock Kagero guns or 3x2 Akizuki guns but is otherwise a Kagero class DD.

 

She will have the best speed for her concealment at t8, but some of the worst torpedoes for her tier, outclassed by Z 23 and Benson torps. Her torps might be better than Lo Yang's but I'm not sure.

 

So competively in ranked say she will be a better spotter and brawler than Kagero and some people would call that pay to win but to be frank Kagero is sort of bad.. anyway I gotta go. Let me know if your thoughts. 

 

see what i mean. she is already going to be a better kagero but for the consumers it is not enough...


Edited by bad_arcade_kitty, 10 May 2017 - 02:44 AM.

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Jakajan #23 Posted 10 May 2017 - 03:30 AM

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Yeah, to me it points out how bad of a situation IJN DD's are in still at this point, the fact that Harekaze is better than a standard Kagero but still not competitive is kind of amazing to me. I think the reason why Lo Yang has weaker torps actually than Benson is somewhat because they can't nerf Lo Yang torps if they wanted to so they low balled her to be safe.

 

So let me go over a few things.

 

Benson has more hit points than Harekaze

Benson has better torpedoes than Harekaze

Benson has more overall gun power than Harekaze

Benson has a tighter turning radius

Benson has a greater top speed

 

Harekaze has 200 meters more stealth than Benson

Harekaze has more stern firepower than Benson

Harekaze will have better gun arcs than Benson

 

Am I missing anythng much here?


Edited by Jakajan, 10 May 2017 - 03:38 AM.


Jakajan #24 Posted 10 May 2017 - 03:36 AM

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BTW the Harekaze has the type 90 mod 1 torpedoes but instead of Kagero's 101 second reload time she has a 112 second reload time on them, here is an image of it.

 

https://twitter.com/...1817216/photo/1

 

Also here is some telling information on Harekaze, she looks to have worse concealment than a Kagero by 200 meters. Rough. You can see her concealment value with camo in port is 91, while Kagero's is 90 with camo on.

 

Spoiler
Spoiler

 


Edited by Jakajan, 10 May 2017 - 03:38 AM.


Jakajan #25 Posted 10 May 2017 - 03:52 AM

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So now, in summary if you compare the Kagero to Harekaze and you go down the entire line using this one image mind you, this is using the stock IJN 127mm guns too which may or may not be the best configuration. Also keeping in mind the image is a month old and may or may not have changed. Probably has? though I have not seen much news on this topic from the usual sources.

 

Kagero has 1800 more hit points

Armor is identical

Firing ranges of stock guns are identical, range of other configurations are unknown

Kagero does 3800 more damage with it's torpedoes and the torpedoes are 5 knots faster, or it can reload 11 seconds faster, optional.

Kagero has better anti air

Harekaze has 1.8 knots faster top speed

Turning circle is identical

Kagero has better rudder shift

Kagero has better concealment by 200 meters with a 6.6km base concealment to Harekaze 6.8km concealment.

 

Assuming both ships are stock with no modules installed of course, the captain listed has no skills trained.

 

So, basically the Harekaze will be a Kagero but faster, with better guns, in exchange for being squishier, less agile, with weaker torpedoes and a hare (pun intended) worse stealth. Am I missing anything?

 

 

 



bad_arcade_kitty #26 Posted 10 May 2017 - 04:42 AM

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tbh i mostly want the cat captain for my mutsuki
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Jakajan #27 Posted 10 May 2017 - 05:23 AM

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View Postbad_arcade_kitty, on 10 May 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

tbh i mostly want the cat captain for my mutsuki

 

I can see that. I want him for my Shinonome.

 

Actually crazy fact. Shinonome will have more hp than Harekaze.



bad_arcade_kitty #28 Posted 10 May 2017 - 05:36 AM

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View PostJakajan, on 10 May 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Actually crazy fact. Shinonome will have more hp than Harekaze.

 

even with se?


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BlailBlerg #29 Posted 10 May 2017 - 05:48 AM

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Poor Lo Yang. =(

Jakajan #30 Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:59 AM

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View Postbad_arcade_kitty, on 10 May 2017 - 05:36 AM, said:

 

even with se?

 

Actually I was wrong. Harekaze will have 100 more hit points than Shinonome without survival expert, but we are talking about two destroyers  of the same family two tiers apart within around 1k hp of one another.

Edited by Jakajan, 10 May 2017 - 07:59 AM.


SkyRail #31 Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:37 AM

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View PostJakajan, on 09 May 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

Kagero has 1800 more hit points

Armor is identical

Firing ranges of stock guns are identical, range of other configurations are unknown

Kagero does 3800 more damage with it's torpedoes and the torpedoes are 5 knots faster, or it can reload 11 seconds faster, optional.

Kagero has better anti air

Harekaze has 1.8 knots faster top speed

Turning circle is identical

Kagero has better rudder shift

Kagero has better concealment by 200 meters with a 6.6km base concealment to Harekaze 6.8km concealment.

 

 

So far the in-game gun range is decided by the gun fire control system, unless they add another upgrade, I don't see she has any chance getting longer range.

Harekaze has better AA when equip with 100mm or the USN 5in

The rudder tho.......4.0 for her is kinda.......long. when considering kagero is 2.7, Shiratsuyu at T7 is 3.1, Yugumo at T9 is around 3.5 ?, and Shimakaze at T10 is 3.0 (I already feel Yugumo's is too long. seems like Harekaze will need a rudder mod)


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MrDeaf #32 Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:00 AM

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View PostGhostSwordsman, on 09 May 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

 

Well, is there any data on the Kagero-class being able to go faster than 35.5kts?(you may not know, but I thought I'd throw the question out anyway) The Wikipedia entry reads that 35.5kts was the designed speed, but looking at the historical info on the WoWs wiki for Kagero and Akatsuki, Kagero has 2,000 more shp, yet Akatsuki can go 2.5kts faster. I'm probably unaware of some hydrodynamics of the hull or overall tonnage or something little like that, but initially it doesn't line up that Kagero is slower with more shp than one of the preceding destroyer classes. I'm just wondering if they achieved higher speeds in sea trials or something, because that could give grounds for her speed to be bumped up slightly as WG doesn't seem to be shy in giving ships their theoretical stats if it helps balance out the ship's performance.

 

The ~37kts that Harekaze will be able to do should allow her to reach ~40kts with engine boost on, just like Akatsuki. And that's one of the small issues I have with Kagero, she's fine with engine boost running, but she feels too slow with it off.

 

it's from the extra weight from being built sturdier.

 

Fubuki-class could all hit 38.0 knots when constructed, including Akatsuki, but after rebuilding to add more hull strength and adding more AA and ASW gear, the original 1,680t displacement was more like 1,900t displacement and the ships could no longer hit 38.0 knots. 35.0 knots was more typical. The 36.5 knots on Hatsuharu was also when it was originally a 1,400t design, rather than what you see in game, which is more around 1,800t and 34.0 knots.

 

Kagero-class were built sturdier to start with and also to have better cruising range. The one thing they lacked was a better engine, which caused the top speed to only be 35.0 knots. The original requirements called for 36.0 knots. There were also build discrepancies between different ships of the same class. Initial batch of Kagero-class could only hit 34.6 knots, but after some tweaking, some were able to hit 36.0 knots.

 


 

As for Harekaze being competitive or not...

I think it has a pretty good chance of being OP, since you get the same concealment specs as Kagero, but you also get 75% of the firepower you get on Akizuki.

And the one thing you don't want Akizuki to do to you, is ambush you at close range when you are broadside, because that RoF and AP hurts a lot.

To that end, Kagero has 5.4km concealment, where as Akizuki is stuck at 5.9km... Yeah, you will be in a world of hurt when the best concealment DD packs fantastic firepower.


Edited by MrDeaf, 11 May 2017 - 10:04 AM.

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Jakajan #33 Posted 11 May 2017 - 11:02 AM

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View PostMrDeaf, on 11 May 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

 

it's from the extra weight from being built sturdier.

 

Fubuki-class could all hit 38.0 knots when constructed, including Akatsuki, but after rebuilding to add more hull strength and adding more AA and ASW gear, the original 1,680t displacement was more like 1,900t displacement and the ships could no longer hit 38.0 knots. 35.0 knots was more typical. The 36.5 knots on Hatsuharu was also when it was originally a 1,400t design, rather than what you see in game, which is more around 1,800t and 34.0 knots.

 

Kagero-class were built sturdier to start with and also to have better cruising range. The one thing they lacked was a better engine, which caused the top speed to only be 35.0 knots. The original requirements called for 36.0 knots. There were also build discrepancies between different ships of the same class. Initial batch of Kagero-class could only hit 34.6 knots, but after some tweaking, some were able to hit 36.0 knots.

 


 

As for Harekaze being competitive or not...

I think it has a pretty good chance of being OP, since you get the same concealment specs as Kagero, but you also get 75% of the firepower you get on Akizuki.

And the one thing you don't want Akizuki to do to you, is ambush you at close range when you are broadside, because that RoF and AP hurts a lot.

To that end, Kagero has 5.4km concealment, where as Akizuki is stuck at 5.9km... Yeah, you will be in a world of hurt when the best concealment DD packs fantastic firepower.

 

Of note if Harekaze comes out as listed her concealment would be 5.6 minimal not 5.4, she would have the A hull Kagero with fire control upgrade. All of this is speculative.

MrDeaf #34 Posted 11 May 2017 - 11:56 AM

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View PostJakajan, on 11 May 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

 

Of note if Harekaze comes out as listed her concealment would be 5.6 minimal not 5.4, she would have the A hull Kagero with fire control upgrade. All of this is speculative.

 

says 6.8km from screenshots.

you multiply that by 0.81 and it is 5.508km.


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Azumazi #35 Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:17 PM

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I personally wonder how the 5''/54's are going to operate. If they keep that high fire chance. Oh glory!

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Jakajan #36 Posted 11 May 2017 - 06:22 PM

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My Kagero in port without modules has 200 meters less concealment with a concealment score of 91 vs Harekaze 90. The premium ship in port has camo on, as does mine in port indicating the conceal difference.

MrDeaf #37 Posted 11 May 2017 - 06:33 PM

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Concealment rating of 90 can vary from 7.0km to 6.8km.

 

And, it say 6.8km from the screen shots.

 

https://c1.staticfli...635405abe_o.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.co..._TVV0AEQRgB.jpg


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Jakajan #38 Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:16 PM

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Yeah it does, but Kagero has a concealment of 6.6 in port with camo on and no modules or captain skills, Harekaze has 6.8 with camo on but no modules or captain skills.

Destroyer_Johnston #39 Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:56 PM

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we just have to wait and see that might have been a super early stats have to wait for the ST/CC vids to confirm. 

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bad_arcade_kitty #40 Posted 12 May 2017 - 12:24 AM

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View PostMrDeaf, on 11 May 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Fubuki-class could all hit 38.0 knots when constructed, including Akatsuki, but after rebuilding to add more hull strength and adding more AA and ASW gear, the original 1,680t displacement was more like 1,900t displacement and the ships could no longer hit 38.0 knots. 35.0 knots was more typical.

 

akatsuki had an improved propulsion system over fubuki though


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