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fix radar


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Poll: fix radar (44 members have cast votes)

radar needs fixing

  1. yes, it needs fixing (16 votes [36.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.36%

  2. no, leave it as is (28 votes [63.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 63.64%

i play, top 2

  1. bb (22 votes [26.19%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.19%

  2. ca (34 votes [40.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.48%

  3. dd (28 votes [33.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  4. cv (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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Antarctica83 #1 Posted 03 May 2017 - 03:40 AM

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it is my felling as a dd player all the way up to tire X, that radar needs to be fix. it is a vary rare game that you can sneak up to any ship, let alone hide behind a smokescreen or an island for that matter. this really hurts the IJN the most. anyhow just my two cents worth, just know for myself i will be playing this class of ship a lot less now till something is fix.

1SneakyDevil #2 Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:06 AM

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I play a lot of DD and don't have an issue with it. Is it annoying yes but not a game killer.

 

IJN DDs have some good torp ranges especially in the higher tiers so you shouldn't need to hide in your own smoke often to avoid being spotted.

 

Continual movement is your friend. Smokescreens are to help your team.

 

 



OseanTanker #3 Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:23 AM

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My only problem with radar is that it sees through islands. But that is more down to how radar is coded to work and could require a lot of work to recode.

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. - General George S. Patton

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.​ -2nd Amendment

 


MelonFlavoredShells #4 Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:26 AM

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View Post1SneakyDevil, on 02 May 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:

I play a lot of DD and don't have an issue with it. Is it annoying yes but not a game killer.

 

IJN DDs have some good torp ranges especially in the higher tiers so you shouldn't need to hide in your own smoke often to avoid being spotted.

 

Continual movement is your friend. Smokescreens are to help your team.

Pretty much this.

 

Keep calm and WASD. Usually, the only times radar is fatal to a destroyer is if it's on low health, sitting still in a smoke cloud, or in the middle of the enemy team. If it's the last one, then you may need to reconsider how aggressive you are.


 

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Vekta408 #5 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:07 AM

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View PostOseanTanker, on 02 May 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

My only problem with radar is that it sees through islands. But that is more down to how radar is coded to work and could require a lot of work to recode.

 

+1

HMCS_Devilfish #6 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:11 AM

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Please fix radar !! I need like another 30 seconds on my Belfast ... please

Pulicat #7 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:13 AM

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Why not ask yourself how you can work in your dd with radar as it exists. Why must your hand be held while you wait until the radar under your bed goes away?

 


gmann14 #8 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:38 AM

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You forgot to add an option that says 'make radar a module' so it can be damaged. Also, radar jammer to counter your radar

AdmiralHattori #9 Posted 03 May 2017 - 06:54 AM

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The biggest reason why radar has become a common thing for a lot ships is because of the absence of CVs. CVs originally kept check on DDs by spotting them and their torpedoes but ever since CVs died off, DDs had no natural predator and at one point was powerful (control objectives, remember those strong IJN torpedoes, DDs that gun while in smoke, scouting). So as a result, when one problem isn't solved (CVs), it affects the ecosystem of the game and WG decided to fix it by adding more hydro (for torpedoes) and radar (gun boats in smoke). Now that we have a lot of these tools, DDs has been some what a wild card. I mean radar didn't come until the Soviet cruisers (even though USN extensively utilized radar in WWII and was there before the Soviet cruisers. Why? Probably because CVs were still popular at the time so DDs weren't a problem to WG until Soviet came to fix the lack of DD balance in game). It was the implementation of these Soviet cruisers with radar to deal with DDs in smoke and eventually USN got their deserved radar, then hydro from Germans, and everything else that affected DDs. So asking to change radar really comes down to why they are there in the first place (fill in the missing gap when CVs became unemployed). It's not fun being bullied by DDs in smoke but also isn't fun going against a team that has radar in every corner.

Edited by AdmiralHattori, 03 May 2017 - 06:57 AM.


Halinspark #10 Posted 03 May 2017 - 08:52 AM

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View Postgmann14, on 03 May 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

You forgot to add an option that says 'make radar a module' so it can be damaged. Also, radar jammer to counter your radar

 

If Radar becomes a module you can damage, then so too should the others. Hydro, Smoke, Speed Boost, Damage Control, Repair Party, Spotter Plane, Fighter Plane, Torp. Reload Booster, and Defensive Fire all should have a chance to be knocked out or destroyed.

 

And Radar Jamming shouldn't be a consumable.

1) It completely defeats the purpose of adding Radar.

2) It would have no counterplay. Smoke is still good for keeping allies out of sight if they're out of Radar range. If you can get behind cover, you can wait it out knowing they now have a few minutes before they can use it again. If you drop a conspicuous smoke and then leave it, you can trick them into focusing on it and divert their attention away from your actual location.

3) Hydro needs the same consideration. Hydro is just as dangerous, because if you get caught by it, you're too close to escape.

4) It starts an arms race. If you get your way, and WG gives ships ECM, the pro-Radar people are going to demand that IT becomes destructible and that THEIR ships get ECCM.

5) It makes the game increasingly more complicated, with little reason.

 

Consider the consequences further out than "Now I don't have to worry about that thing I don't like." and think about what it would do to the game in the long run. Slippery Slope may be a logical fallacy, but gamers are not logical creatures. They are also whiny, entitled babies that will cry until their demands are met, and then cry when they get what they want because they didn't actually think it through.

 

Trust me, I've seen this happen many times. At best, it causes severe power creep. 



Umikami #11 Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:05 PM

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View PostHalinspark, on 03 May 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

 

If Radar becomes a module you can damage, then so too should the others. Hydro, Smoke, Speed Boost, Damage Control, Repair Party, Spotter Plane, Fighter Plane, Torp. Reload Booster, and Defensive Fire all should have a chance to be knocked out or destroyed.

 

And Radar Jamming shouldn't be a consumable.

1) It completely defeats the purpose of adding Radar.

2) It would have no counterplay. Smoke is still good for keeping allies out of sight if they're out of Radar range. If you can get behind cover, you can wait it out knowing they now have a few minutes before they can use it again. If you drop a conspicuous smoke and then leave it, you can trick them into focusing on it and divert their attention away from your actual location.

3) Hydro needs the same consideration. Hydro is just as dangerous, because if you get caught by it, you're too close to escape.

4) It starts an arms race. If you get your way, and WG gives ships ECM, the pro-Radar people are going to demand that IT becomes destructible and that THEIR ships get ECCM.

5) It makes the game increasingly more complicated, with little reason.

 

Consider the consequences further out than "Now I don't have to worry about that thing I don't like." and think about what it would do to the game in the long run. Slippery Slope may be a logical fallacy, but gamers are not logical creatures. They are also whiny, entitled babies that will cry until their demands are met, and then cry when they get what they want because they didn't actually think it through.

 

Trust me, I've seen this happen many times. At best, it causes severe power creep.

 

torps can be knocked out now, and I agree with Hydro. the rest ... ?

 

and as far as radar jamming, and your arguments against it, go:

 

1. yes, it does: that is it's stated purpose

2. yes, it would: play the game like you were in a cruiser without radar.

3. yes, it does.

4. you mean like smoke, then radar, then ... ? (news flash, it is already that way; too bad)

5. EVERYTHING makes the game more complicated, if you want a simple game, play Battleship!


 

as far as your "entitles, whiney babies" goes, the reason for all this hullaballoo is battleship whining; go figure.

from what I can see, your argument is nothing more than "protect my priveledge"


Edited by Umikami, 03 May 2017 - 12:06 PM.


db4100 #12 Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:25 PM

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Give the CVs a special squadron of radar equipped aircraft......no more DDs hiding in smoke from dive bombers

gmann14 #13 Posted 03 May 2017 - 04:35 PM

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View PostHalinspark, on 03 May 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

 

If Radar becomes a module you can damage, then so too should the others. Hydro, Smoke, Speed Boost, Damage Control, Repair Party, Spotter Plane, Fighter Plane, Torp. Reload Booster, and Defensive Fire all should have a chance to be knocked out or destroyed.

 

And Radar Jamming shouldn't be a consumable.

1) It completely defeats the purpose of adding Radar.

2) It would have no counterplay. Smoke is still good for keeping allies out of sight if they're out of Radar range. If you can get behind cover, you can wait it out knowing they now have a few minutes before they can use it again. If you drop a conspicuous smoke and then leave it, you can trick them into focusing on it and divert their attention away from your actual location.

3) Hydro needs the same consideration. Hydro is just as dangerous, because if you get caught by it, you're too close to escape.

4) It starts an arms race. If you get your way, and WG gives ships ECM, the pro-Radar people are going to demand that IT becomes destructible and that THEIR ships get ECCM.

5) It makes the game increasingly more complicated, with little reason.

 

Consider the consequences further out than "Now I don't have to worry about that thing I don't like." and . Slippery Slope may be a logical fallacy, but gamers are not logical creatures. They are also whiny, entitled babies that will cry until their demands are met, and then cry when they get what they want because they didn't actually think it through.

 

Trust me, I've seen this happen many times. At best, it causes severe power creep. 

Trust me I've seen this happen already "now I don't have to worry about that thing I don't like" sounds like whining to me. DD smokes up, you don't like it, so you press your magic see thru islands button. If you live in a fantasy world and pretend radar is ok, let's pretend a dd can hit another magic button that dispenses chaff to spoof your radar. 

Love how  you're trying to rationalize this "think about what it would do to the game in the long run"

1) oh is it like radar completely defeats the purpose of smoke

2/3)Hydro? it has 4-5k range you've spotted a dd by then anyway, useful for self defense if you want to see torps 3k out or if you want to rush a smoke, then sure go nuts, it's you trying to kill a dd before he launches torps at you.

4) newsflash, the arms race started long time ago, people were whining about stealth fire, not just by dd's but ca's and it's gone

5) yeah, much complicated, and reasons, looks there's a smoke, let me pop the all seeing button and see what's in smoke 10k away

 

Yeah, with stealth fire gone, dd who smokes up and gets to use it's guns but you want to hide in your lolanta catapult launcher behind an island and press that button to see a dd in smoke 8k away

 

Also this thread is about radar so don't throw in the jambalaya into it with the rest of your modules. that's like arguing with my dumb gf talking about something from yesterday and she throws in sht that happened 3,6,12 months ago to boost her argument


Edited by gmann14, 03 May 2017 - 05:03 PM.


Halinspark #14 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:49 PM

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View PostUmikami, on 03 May 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

from what I can see, your argument is nothing more than "protect my priveledge"

 

Spoiler

 

Which priviledge would that be, exactly?



Halinspark #15 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

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View Postgmann14, on 03 May 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

Also this thread is about radar so don't throw in the jambalaya into it with the rest of your modules. that's like arguing with my dumb gf talking about something from yesterday and she throws in sht that happened 3,6,12 months ago to boost her argument

 

If you honestly can't see how being able to destroy one consumable but not others is a problem, the nothing I say is going to make sense to you.

 

And I said "Torpedo Reload Booster", not torpedoes. Torpedoes are an ammo type, not a consumable.


Edited by Halinspark, 03 May 2017 - 05:55 PM.


Cruiser_kebobstuzov #16 Posted 03 May 2017 - 07:48 PM

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I play cruisers most, then dd, then BB, then recently some CV. That being said, I think radar is fair as it stands, it is the ONLY counter to a spammy dd in smoke. Guess what? DDs are the single most powerful class, generally having the most impact on a win or loss. Why strengthen them more??? as to what Halin said, being able to knockout radar would require all mods to be the same, meaning EVERYTHING would ALWAYS be getting knocked out and that is over-complicating the game far more than necessary. And someone said give CV radar equipped DBs... No. No thank you I can bomb smoked ships just fine as is, its called game knowledge.
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Umikami #17 Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:47 AM

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View PostHalinspark, on 03 May 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

 

Spoiler

 

Which priviledge would that be, exactly?

 

the radar privledge, of course; you have to admit it gives whatever ship that has it an advantage, no?

 

and as far as the make these other things knock-outable modules:

Hydro - Yes, hydro should be able to be knocked out the same as radar. Yes

Smoke - Once a canister is lit off it burns till done, tho I guess one could be blown overboard, so ... No.

Speed Boost - engines get knocked out, speed boost just juices them like nitrus. No.

Damage Control - Automatic on every ship in every navy, unless they are all dead. No.

Repair Party - I personally think this whole consumable is nonsense, and should be eliminated. XX

Spotter Plane - Yes.

Fighter plane - Yes.

Torp - Yes, and they can be now.

Reload Booster - completely unrealistic consumable XX

Defensive Fire - AA can be lessened or knocked out now. Yes.


 

Honestly, I think they should remove radar, hydro, and smoke completely, as they all do exactly the opposite of WoW's stated goal of NOT supporting camping, and these three "consumables" do nothing but drive ships further and further out when engaging.


Edited by Umikami, 04 May 2017 - 12:47 AM.


Halinspark #18 Posted 04 May 2017 - 01:02 AM

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View PostUmikami, on 04 May 2017 - 12:47 

Torp - Yes, and they can be now.

 

AGAIN, torpedoes aren't a consumable. I never mentioned torpedoes, I mentioned the torp. reload booster.

 

That's not a counter argument, that's you guys not paying attention.



Umikami #19 Posted 04 May 2017 - 12:43 PM

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View PostHalinspark, on 04 May 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

 

AGAIN, torpedoes aren't a consumable. I never mentioned torpedoes, I mentioned the torp. reload booster.

 

That's not a counter argument, that's you guys not paying attention.

 

torps can be knocked out, which certainly denies you the use of the torpedo reload booster, no?

TRY to think these through!!



Cruiser_kebobstuzov #20 Posted 04 May 2017 - 09:56 PM

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View PostUmikami, on 03 May 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Honestly, I think they should remove radar, hydro, and smoke completely, as they all do exactly the opposite of WoW's stated goal of NOT supporting camping, and these three "consumables" do nothing but drive ships further and further out when engaging.

smoke radar and hydro are the only things other than defensive fire that are really good for team play so if they were removed, rest in peace supremacy league, and say hello to MORE island camping because BBs will have to hide from torps. Meanwhile a dd can spread a smoke tunnel for offensive positions or to save a BB in peril. radar can be used to allow the team to focus fire on a prime target. Hydro is KEY in protecting a push from destruction. removing any or all of these would cause more camping, not less. 

 

"TRY to think these through!!"


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