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Manual Secondary Improved Design

Manual Secondary Secondary

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Zoidian #21 Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:07 PM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 03 May 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

 

Actually, the cost is quite a bit bigger than that.  

 

The larger problem is that if you don't or can't designate a target, the secondaries won't fire at all.  

 

I tried to use this skill with one of my captains and, invariably, the only times I could have used the skill, I was in hot combat and couldn't break away to find and then designate the target for the secondaries.  If I did, more often than not, the target would temporarily disappear and I'd have to go through the whole reacquistion process again.  

 

Although I like the idea I eventually came to the conclusion that the skill took away more advantages than it provided and I reallocated that captain's skill points accordingly.  

 

This is what makes me come with the idea, Manual Secondary is not just a skill for your commander, but also for the player, you got to learn to always do it.

 

It is also a 4 point skill (competing with concealment and IFHE and 3-4  3 points skills),  worthy only in conjunction with AFT, and Secondary Batery modiffication 2, its a whole built, you are sacrificing a lot to make it work, and having only half the guns firing with multiple targets around is nonsences, In the first place, yes, this is a BB oriented design, second: not all BBs are up to the job, thirth: it means you are being agressively clousing in to the enemy´s face, with low maneuverability and with no torpedoes (obvious exceptions), then at least, we could be capable of firing at both sides, cuz that clouse combat is what we have chosen at a high price as BB players.



Admiral_Cirno #22 Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:31 AM

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I don't suppose we could reset it so that Bismarks automatically self-immolate when they use their secondaries?

Just asking as a DD driver .....



Hiro_Yoshi #23 Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:52 AM

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I'll accept that immense BB buff if we can also have guided torpedoes (which were a reality in the late stages of WW2).


Umikami #24 Posted 10 May 2017 - 01:53 PM

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it would be nice to have a "focused secondaries" rather than a "manual secondaries";

secondaries would still fire automatically, at the nearest (enemy) ship, unless otherwise directed to another ship manually.



SergeantHop #25 Posted 10 May 2017 - 07:31 PM

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View PostUmikami, on 10 May 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

it would be nice to have a "focused secondaries" rather than a "manual secondaries";

secondaries would still fire automatically, at the nearest (enemy) ship, unless otherwise directed to another ship manually.

 

This is how it works currently. If you have a target selected without manual secondaries, any guns that are in arc will fire at that target. Any guns that are not in arc, will not fire on that target, but will fire on another target if available. Supposedly there is an accuracy bonus as well, but that's mostly just hearsay. 

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jagdoc #26 Posted 11 May 2017 - 06:06 AM

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  I quit using manual secondaries because I could only engage 1 target.  On several occasions I found myself dealing with a CA and DD on both sides of my BB.  Since the rate of fire is screwed up with the secondaries (they should be a fire hose of steel going downrange) I could not kill both targets without suffering major damage or being sunk.  It is the same problem with manual AA.  You can only engage one formation at a time.  I don't use manual AA either.

 I don't understand all the talk about having too much to do if the rear turrets were slaved to the secondaries or could fire at a different target than the front turrets because of the ship angle.  Look at what a CV driver has to do to manage several sorties at the same time.  The fact is DD's should should be petrified of getting too close to a BB.  DD's should have to rely on torpedoes to sink a BB NOT 5 in guns, to do that they would have to get in close enough to launch torps without giving the BB room to maneuver to evade them, in short a suicide run.

The BB and CV should be the baddest ships in the battle because of their flexibility.   WWII saw the BB mission changing to CV support against air attacks against the carriers, and no smaller ship dared get close to a BB as it would literally be blown out of the water.  The game now encourages individual fighting - not teamwork.  It should require two or more ships firing at a BB to destroy it unless it is facing another BB or heavy cruiser.  Now a DD can destroy a 100% BB without launching a single torp firing only 5 in guns!  The BB has 5 in guns but have half the range?  I think the game needs to be completely revamped so DD's and CA's must work together or they die.  BB's should cover CV's and and in the words of the artillery "bring order to what would normally be a brawl" firing at Cruisers and DD's from extended ranges.  Think about it.  How many times have you division-ed up and never sent a single message or talked once to your division mate? 



Zoidian #27 Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:43 PM

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View PostUmikami, on 10 May 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

it would be nice to have a "focused secondaries" rather than a "manual secondaries";

secondaries would still fire automatically, at the nearest (enemy) ship, unless otherwise directed to another ship manually.

 

After all the comments, I think this the way to go on this topic

jimpat2 #28 Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:54 PM

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LOL,  you can always tell the manual users and those who have been sunk by them...

Zoidian #29 Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:54 PM

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View Postjagdoc, on 11 May 2017 - 06:06 AM, said:

  I quit using manual secondaries because I could only engage 1 target.  On several occasions I found myself dealing with a CA and DD on both sides of my BB.  Since the rate of fire is screwed up with the secondaries (they should be a fire hose of steel going downrange) I could not kill both targets without suffering major damage or being sunk.  It is the same problem with manual AA.  You can only engage one formation at a time.  I don't use manual AA either.

 I don't understand all the talk about having too much to do if the rear turrets were slaved to the secondaries or could fire at a different target than the front turrets because of the ship angle.  Look at what a CV driver has to do to manage several sorties at the same time.  The fact is DD's should should be petrified of getting too close to a BB.  DD's should have to rely on torpedoes to sink a BB NOT 5 in guns, to do that they would have to get in close enough to launch torps without giving the BB room to maneuver to evade them, in short a suicide run.

The BB and CV should be the baddest ships in the battle because of their flexibility.   WWII saw the BB mission changing to CV support against air attacks against the carriers, and no smaller ship dared get close to a BB as it would literally be blown out of the water.  The game now encourages individual fighting - not teamwork.  It should require two or more ships firing at a BB to destroy it unless it is facing another BB or heavy cruiser.  Now a DD can destroy a 100% BB without launching a single torp firing only 5 in guns!  The BB has 5 in guns but have half the range?  I think the game needs to be completely revamped so DD's and CA's must work together or they die.  BB's should cover CV's and and in the words of the artillery "bring order to what would normally be a brawl" firing at Cruisers and DD's from extended ranges.  Think about it.  How many times have you division-ed up and never sent a single message or talked once to your division mate? 

 

Your comment is right in a few things, well more than a few, yes, its true that the current structure of the game encourage selfish, greedy, individual oriented play, which in turn helps you loose the match faster, people need to understand this isn t a competitive game, but cooperative. Then the fact that a DD alone can sink a BB without a single torpedo hit, not to menttion the incredible overpowered high tier cruisers, also the stock (and improved)secondary range and dispersion is way below useful numbers. We agree at all those facts, maybe increasing the BBs secondary capabilities may bring some team effort to the game.

Zoidian #30 Posted 12 May 2017 - 07:56 PM

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View PostSergeantHop, on 10 May 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

 

This is how it works currently. If you have a target selected without manual secondaries, any guns that are in arc will fire at that target. Any guns that are not in arc, will not fire on that target, but will fire on another target if available. Supposedly there is an accuracy bonus as well, but that's mostly just hearsay. 

 

I havent realise this, if its for real, cuz I always select the manual target... ill chek it out

I_Am_DreadgeNought #31 Posted 13 May 2017 - 03:31 AM

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Agreed,  being able to que up to 3 targets for AA and 2nds would be good.

 

 

Would also be most simple and most good, if "Manual 2nds" worked like "Manual AA"  where the 'bonus' is applied to the Selected Target,  with all others being the same as normal.

 

(as is,  "Manual 2nds"  is too weak a skill in performance for how much one has to sacrifice.)


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Zoidian #32 Posted 13 May 2017 - 06:27 PM

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View PostI_Am_DreadgeNought, on 13 May 2017 - 03:31 AM, said:

Agreed,  being able to que up to 3 targets for AA and 2nds would be good.

 

 

Would also be most simple and most good, if "Manual 2nds" worked like "Manual AA"  where the 'bonus' is applied to the Selected Target,  with all others being the same as normal.

 

(as is,  "Manual 2nds"  is too weak a skill in performance for how much one has to sacrifice.)

 

The problem is that manual secondary works differently from manual AA, the AA battery works by DPS (Damage per Second) as secondary battery works by hitting the target, you can average the DPS of your secondary battery but it will always vary. What you can do is modify the dispersion values thos increasing or decreasing the average DPS. With manual AA you get a 100% buff in DPS for the selected scuadron, as the rest of the planes gets normal DSP from your AA battery. But in manual secondary the guns only fire at one target, which is the subject matter of this discution. We should be capable of fire at at least two targets with te secondary batery, because it is very frecuend to get in between two or more ships at a time, and with 20 to 30 seconds reload, you will be burn to death before your guns are ready to fire. You can damage only one of the sorrounding enemies effectively with manual secondary.

Edited by Zoidian, 13 May 2017 - 06:29 PM.


Raven_Smith_1 #33 Posted 21 May 2017 - 09:58 PM

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View PostYeOldeTraveller, on 02 May 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

I like the idea of normal operation until focuses on a target, then only that target gets everything with the improved dispersion.

 

Second

Madwolf05 #34 Posted 26 May 2017 - 01:47 PM

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I really don't think Manual Secondaries should be made any more powerful than they already are. It is rather gross how much damage they do with just a mouse click and forget. 

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