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Manual Secondary Improved Design

Manual Secondary Secondary

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Zoidian #1 Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:50 PM

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So in the current game design, once you got Manual Secondary skill for your commander, it will only fire at one target, also with a 15% decrease in dispersion for tiers up to 6, and 60% for tiers above 6. Then, if you are in a situation where you have enemies in both sides, you can only fire your secondary batery at one of them, one side is fully operational while the other is silenced. I propose the addition of a secondary target assigned to the manual secondary, so that, the system fires all of the secondary bateries capable of, at the primary target, and all the rest at the secondary target but without the decrease in dispesion.

For example: Lets say you are in Yamato and a destroyer apears at your starboard side, you have Manual Secondary and you select the destroyer as its target, all of the starboard secondary guns open fire at the destroyer, including the 155mm triple turrets. But then a second destroyer apears, this time at your port side, you will select it as secondary target, and all the port side secondary guns open fire, except for the 155mm´s because, they are firing at the primary target. If the primary target is sunk or disapears, then the secondary target becomes primary target, and all the guns capable of, will fire at it. If the secondary target moves to the same side of the primary target, then the secondary batery cannot fire at it, unless is located somewhere is reacheble by secondaries that can´t fire at the primary target. The point is, once again, a secondary target that will be engaged by the secondary bateries that CANNOT FIRE AT THE PRIMARY TARGET and with stock dispersion.

I would like to propose too, a fruther decrese in dispersion for tiers below 7, from 15% to 40%, because 15% feels like nothing, making this skill useless below tier 7.

Also, Mikasa has become underpowered due to the introduction of french torpedoes at tier 3 (0.6.4), a significant increase in Mikasa´s secondary range  could balance the situation. 


Edited by Zoidian, 02 May 2017 - 06:59 PM.


BB3_Oregon_Steel #2 Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:58 PM

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I have to admit, I don't mind the secondaries only being able to fire on one side when in manual mode.  Main battery guns on an engaged side do the same thing so that isn't the problem as far as I can see. 

 

The problem with this skill is that if you are closely engaged and can't afford to take your big guns offline to look for whatever target you want to have for your secondaries then you have no secondary guns at all firing at anything.  This normally happens at the very worst possible time and can make the entire skill a deficit rather than an advantage.  To solve this, secondary guns should engage targets as they normally would until the player designates a target for them at which point all available secondary guns would focus on that target.  



Zoidian #3 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:08 PM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 02 May 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

I have to admit, I don't mind the secondaries only being able to fire on one side when in manual mode.  Main battery guns on an engaged side do the same thing so that isn't the problem as far as I can see. 

 

The problem with this skill is that if you are closely engaged and can't afford to take your big guns offline to look for whatever target you want to have for your secondaries then you have no secondary guns at all firing at anything.  This normally happens at the very worst possible time and can make the entire skill a deficit rather than an advantage.  To solve this, secondary guns should engage targets as they normally would until the player designates a target for them at which point all available secondary guns would focus on that target.  

 

The problem I see is that the whole idea of the manual secondaries is that you actively select which target you want to fire at, because at any given point you coud be in range of 5 or more targets to engage with secondary batery, and if the 7 guns per side (on some BBs) divide efforts to fire at all of them, then they´ll become harmless, when you select a manual target then you are in control of the secondary in a way, the problem I focus on is that then you got one side working well and the other, in perfect health, not working at all, even with dangerous targets moving around that side of your ship.

RipNuN2 #4 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:22 PM

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It would be OP in this manner.

Zero_Kelvin #5 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:28 PM

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BBs are overpowered.

 


YeOldeTraveller #6 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:29 PM

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I like the idea of normal operation until focuses on a target, then only that target gets everything with the improved dispersion.

Apaosha #7 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:29 PM

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I don't use MFC what so ever.  I never will use it again either.

Admiral_Thrawn_1 #8 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:34 PM

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What if a key command was used like say S and X since I heard X is used to lock main guns on closest target in range do maybe S and X could be secondary target nearest enemy ship?

Zoidian #9 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:37 PM

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View PostRipNuN2, on 02 May 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

It would be OP in this manner.

 

What if the dispersion decrease be lets say 50% insted of 60%? 



SergeantHop #10 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:39 PM

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View PostApaosha, on 02 May 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

I don't use MFC what so ever.  I never will use it again either.

 

Your loss. But also completely irrelevant. 

 

View PostAdmiral_Thrawn_1, on 02 May 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

What if a key command was used like say S and X since I heard X is used to lock main guns on closest target in range do maybe S and X could be secondary target nearest enemy ship?

 

S is kinda already used. 

 

Regardless, part of the point of having manual secondaries only firing on one target is for balance. You get that improved dispersion at the cost of not being able to engage multiple targets with secondaries. I see no reason to change.


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Zoidian #11 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:46 PM

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View PostSergeantHop, on 02 May 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

 

Your loss. But also completely irrelevant. 

 

 

S is kinda already used. 

 

Regardless, part of the point of having manual secondaries only firing on one target is for balance. You get that improved dispersion at the cost of not being able to engage multiple targets with secondaries. I see no reason to change.

 

Sounds razonable except for most (if not all) of the commander skills does not require that sacrifice, you dont get lest smoke time for the increase in smoke coverture, you dont have less acuracy in the AA and secondaries with Advance firing trainning. IMO having just half of the secondary battery firing is nonsence.

Zoidian #12 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:57 PM

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View PostZero_Kelvin, on 02 May 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

BBs are overpowered.

 

High tier cruisers are overpowered, one Minotaur or Hindenburg can easily deal with an Amagi or Izumo, with litghning reload, high caliber and strong armor, they are BBs with 10 seconds reaload and HE spamers

Zero_Kelvin #13 Posted 02 May 2017 - 08:46 PM

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View PostZoidian, on 02 May 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

 

High tier cruisers are overpowered, one Minotaur or Hindenburg can easily deal with an Amagi or Izumo, with litghning reload, high caliber and strong armor, they are BBs with 10 seconds reaload and HE spamers

 

They need it because BBs are utterly broken.

 


Zoidian #14 Posted 02 May 2017 - 09:43 PM

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View PostZero_Kelvin, on 02 May 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

 

They need it because BBs are utterly broken.

 

Didn´t understad what you mean here.

By the way, thats a very good name of yours


Edited by Zoidian, 02 May 2017 - 09:44 PM.


SergeantHop #15 Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:14 PM

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View PostZoidian, on 02 May 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

 

Sounds razonable except for most (if not all) of the commander skills does not require that sacrifice, you dont get lest smoke time for the increase in smoke coverture, you dont have less acuracy in the AA and secondaries with Advance firing trainning. IMO having just half of the secondary battery firing is nonsence.

 

The only thing is, increasing secondary accuracy to such a degree can seriously improve the damage output of the ship. In my Bismarck, between the fires and the alpha, I would regularly get over 40k in secondary damage alone. Without manual secondaries, I wouldn't have gotten nearly that much. AFT can help, but the trade off is that it takes four points, and doesn't significantly change your damage output. Smoke screen radius is just a minor improvement that is more of a quality of life change than a strong buff.

 

But increasing secondary accuracy by 60% is pretty big. Like...a serious buff. Only being able to fire on one side of the ship is pretty minor for the improvement it nets. There are few instances where firing on both sides of the ship is useful, and it's pretty likely you're about to die anyways. I just think that it should be practical to take on lower tier ships. 


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Zoidian #16 Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:24 PM

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View PostSergeantHop, on 02 May 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

 

The only thing is, increasing secondary accuracy to such a degree can seriously improve the damage output of the ship. In my Bismarck, between the fires and the alpha, I would regularly get over 40k in secondary damage alone. Without manual secondaries, I wouldn't have gotten nearly that much. AFT can help, but the trade off is that it takes four points, and doesn't significantly change your damage output. Smoke screen radius is just a minor improvement that is more of a quality of life change than a strong buff.

 

But increasing secondary accuracy by 60% is pretty big. Like...a serious buff. Only being able to fire on one side of the ship is pretty minor for the improvement it nets. There are few instances where firing on both sides of the ship is useful, and it's pretty likely you're about to die anyways. I just think that it should be practical to take on lower tier ships. 

 

However, the proposal here is be capable of make the non used secondaries fire at something. Perhaps if the system fires the secondary batery with normal dispersion until you select the target, then all secondaries in ark to that target fire with the dispersion increase and the secondaies without ark to that target fires at anything that moves again with normal stock dispersion.

RipNuN2 #17 Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:36 PM

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View PostZoidian, on 02 May 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

 

However, the proposal here is be capable of make the non used secondaries fire at something. Perhaps if the system fires the secondary batery with normal dispersion until you select the target, then all secondaries in ark to that target fire with the dispersion increase and the secondaies without ark to that target fires at anything that moves again with normal stock dispersion.

 

If you want secondaries to fire on both sides dont pick the manual skill. Having the other side fire simultaneously even without the skill buff, is a buff secondary heavy bb's dont need. If I'm brawling more than 1 ship, I set the secondaries to fire one side, and then I put my main guns on the other ship. Usually by the time my main target is dead, I can swing around the main guns and polish off the other ship.

Edited by RipNuN2, 02 May 2017 - 10:37 PM.


Marine_Diesel #18 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:41 AM

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It's an neat idea. Designating a primary and secondary target. But I have to mildly disagree with the OP. Secondaries are 'nearly ok' as is.
Implementing your idea would make BBs a bit too OP. And I mostly play BBs.

What I think is needed is a small buff to the Aiming Systems Modification 1 upgrade. (It's listed as -7% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells.)
The improvement I think is needed is:
-8% to maximum dispersion of main battery shells

+8% to secondary battery maximum firing range.

-8% to maximum dispersion of secondary shells.
(The rest would remain the same)

Aiming Systems Modification 1 also being available at tier 4. It would also solve the notorious inaccurate tier IV BB issue. 3 issues solved with one solution.

(I suppose Aiming Systems Modification 1 or Secondary Battery Modification 2 could be available upgrades to the Mikasa. As an exception. But idk...)
 


Edited by Marine_Diesel, 03 May 2017 - 05:52 AM.


SergeantHop #19 Posted 03 May 2017 - 06:05 AM

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View PostZoidian, on 02 May 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

However, the proposal here is be capable of make the non used secondaries fire at something. Perhaps if the system fires the secondary batery with normal dispersion until you select the target, then all secondaries in ark to that target fire with the dispersion increase and the secondaies without ark to that target fires at anything that moves again with normal stock dispersion.

 

Except...that's literally what I'm saying. It would be too much to have all the guns going. The point of the skill is you get a massive secondary battery output boost at the cost of only being able to fire at one target. 

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BB3_Oregon_Steel #20 Posted 03 May 2017 - 05:55 PM

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View PostSergeantHop, on 03 May 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

 

Except...that's literally what I'm saying. It would be too much to have all the guns going. The point of the skill is you get a massive secondary battery output boost at the cost of only being able to fire at one target. 

 

Actually, the cost is quite a bit bigger than that.  

 

The larger problem is that if you don't or can't designate a target, the secondaries won't fire at all.  

 

I tried to use this skill with one of my captains and, invariably, the only times I could have used the skill, I was in hot combat and couldn't break away to find and then designate the target for the secondaries.  If I did, more often than not, the target would temporarily disappear and I'd have to go through the whole reacquistion process again.  

 

Although I like the idea I eventually came to the conclusion that the skill took away more advantages than it provided and I reallocated that captain's skill points accordingly.  







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