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I'm worried about this community...

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Greenday4537 #41 Posted 30 April 2017 - 01:26 PM

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So the OP is concerned that in a game that involves winning and losing people are obsessed with winning?

 

No way.



MaliceA4Thought #42 Posted 30 April 2017 - 01:51 PM

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Hang in there OP :)  

 

I find there to be three main forms of toxicity in the forums and in-game.

 

it so amusing that a lot of the toxicity in this forum comes from stats when the stats in this game are completely meaningless and worthless in any way or form.

 

Stats need a foundation to have any form of meaning, and it needs to be a consistent foundation.

 

Someone with stats from when they joined the game after they removed draws from the game, cannot be meaningful against players who have played from day 1 and should have win rate boosted by some 5 - 10% to account for the "losses" of draws.

Someone with stats from when they joined the game post the T1-4 "fix" in MM cannot be meaningful against players who played before that date.

In some ways, when every new ship line is introduced, it makes stats from before that date suspect as the foundation of the game has changed.

Someone with stats gained mainly in divisions cannot be meaningful against players who usually play solo.

Someone with stats as a re-roll is completely irrelevant and worthless.

 

In all these cases, stats are nothing more than a vague indicator and yet some people treat them as the be all and end all of epeen in the game..  not everyone, but a lot of the toxicity posters and in-game toxicity come from this meaningless metric.   

 

There are some great players out there, some natural players out there that are really good and some great players out there whos stats are rubbish..  what you nbeed to do is find the great players and ignore the stats..  great stats does NOT mean great player and vice versa.

 

The second seems to be the people who really are, or have been passionate about the game and become dissilusioned for whatever reason and they are having a hard time reconcilling that fact.  Either a perceived slight by WG against their favorite ship or class of ships or event..  usually without much foundation in reality  (although some are), but are dissapointed and let that flow into their attitude on the forums and that is, to me, the hardest one to see because all these people could be the greatest supporters of the game because of the passion they show, albeit negative passion in this case.

 

The third are just those that want their 10 minutes of fame and don't care..  these are the WG is P2W, or I want, or the free stuff is crap posts or will try to divert a post about one thing to something irrelevant  like  P2W, or I want or the free stuff is crap style.    Nothing to see here move on and ignore the posters and no, they are in no way the same as the second group.. they are just sad people that have no life but want what everyone else has whether they earned it or not.

 

I have some sympathy with the second group, as I have been there and done that and got the badge of dissilusionment from a number of issues, but still play regularly and have fun.

 

As a couple of oither posters have said..  the lack of monitoring and the abandonment of responsability of WG to police their own forums is a major point here..  Their moderation policy is like their in-game policy of make it as simple as possible for everyone and lets have participation medals and hope any issues just vanish if we ignore them.   It started when downvotes were removed and has continued downhill from there.

 

I still believe you can have fuin playing this game and I personally will continue to do so..   I'm not looking for the ship that gives me the most uber advantage in game, I play the ships I enjoy..  even, oh god, yes I have started playing Krispy Kreme because it can be a fun ship to play.

 

Ignore the stat [edited]who have no foundation in reality, deal with those slighted whether factual or not by being somewhat sympathetic and laugh (and then ignore) those that just want fame for a few seconds on a game forum and play for your enjoyment of taking out a famous ship, or just one you enjoy and ignore the result..   if you have fun driving that ship, the "stats" result is trivial..  the enjoyment is what a game is all about and with enjoyment comes winning, either in game, or personally, but in game will follow if your attitude is up there to start with. :)

 

M

 

 


Edited by MaliceA4Thought, 30 April 2017 - 02:06 PM.

  

 

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, whilst defeated warriors go to war and then seek to win
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Admiral_Thrawn_1 #43 Posted 30 April 2017 - 01:55 PM

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View PostGreenday4537, on 30 April 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

So the OP is concerned that in a game that involves winning and losing people are obsessed with winning?

 

No way.

 

There is a difference between wanting to win and being a bad person over it. Chess is a good example of wanting to win, but at the same time having to be civil about it or else you get thrown out of tournaments and lose a lot of money since chess tournants like the nes I like to play and in in pay 4-5 digit amounts of cash for weekend lol.

 

The hostility and hate that gets expressed in Wargaming games can get a little ridiculous and what people need to remember is in this day and age you can be watched and tracked and if you are ever suspected of a crime at some point law enforcement can pull chat logs on your gaming and social networking and find out about your personality for example.

I usually find it best to keep things civil even when debating over a matter .



Lochnivar #44 Posted 30 April 2017 - 01:57 PM

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I agree with you OP; however, I'd like to add a dimension to it.

 

I could care less about my win rate or other stats.  I could care less about other people's win rate or stats.  What I do care about is playing with a team that exhibits a modicum of clue.


When I say "clue", I mean not dumping torps from behind the line without a thought of hitting your own allies.  Or F-Key crazy.

 

Like others have said, this is a great community compared to others out there.  I can understand your frustration.  Keep up the good fight both in the battles and on the forums.



m373x #45 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:18 PM

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View PostLochnivar, on 30 April 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

F-Key crazy.

 

I love going to the low tiers and just F-key the crapout of it with the whole team for the first 5 minutes. Everybody seems to love doing that in the low tiers and I have a mood lifting experience out of it.

Edited by m373x, 30 April 2017 - 02:23 PM.


JCC45 #46 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:19 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 30 April 2017 - 02:16 AM, said:

 

People are going to be how people are.  PvP attracts alpha type personalities.  That's a simple fact.  They're not going to be like "oh phooey, I died again.  Oh well!"  People get frustrated.  They want to win.  if they were to over moderate here, there would BE no community, people would go out to reddit where they can be as buttholish as they want to be.

 

Actually what would happen is that the complete a******* would go to Reddit, the borderline a******* would tone down their pointless rhetoric and the adults (of all ages) would have a place to post, share experiences,  learn and ask questions without the first two groups jumping all over them.  In other words this forum would stop being Reddit-lite and turn into an actual community.

 

 

com·mu·ni·ty
kəˈmyo͞onədē/
noun
a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.
"the sense of community that organized religion can provide"
 
 
Does that describe this place in it's current form any way?  
 
For instance, yesterday a newcomer  asked a perfectly reasonable question and one of the "forum-elite" immediately started throwing around names (WIllfull/lazy ignorance is a cancerous thing, ignorant/lazy, too stupid to live)  for not hunting for the patch notes.  There was no reason in the world to post the juvenile crap he did, but characteristically he just jumps into threads like that to show off how superior he is.
 
But this is only one example of the needless hate spam the OP is referring to.  Another thread one of the regulars actually suggested that someone should be killed.  We have regular posters here that, this minute you see their name, you know it is going to be nothing but venom about everyone else who plays the game.  Looking below the posting window I see the topics "Weekend Rant" & "What's with all the idiots running around".  Without looking I will bet you there are at least 5 threads on the main page bit***** about players that aren't up to the poster's standards.  Does that sound like a "community" to you?
 

All of this comes down to loose moderation.  People get away with this crap because they are allowed to get away with this crap.  To the OPs point it is not the game that is dragging him down, it's this place.  This forum would be much better off without the "alpha male" (it is to laugh) crap that is allowed to flourish here.  Let Reddit have them.  It deserves it.



JCC45 #47 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:20 PM

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View Postm373x, on 30 April 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

 

I love going to the low tiers and just F-key the shiit out of it with the whole team for the first 5 minutes. Everybody seems to love doing that in the low tiers and I have a mood lifting experience out of it.

 

You have a great deal of professionalism and integrity, that's for sure.

m373x #48 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:22 PM

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View PostJCC45, on 30 April 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

You have a great deal of professionalism and integrity, that's for sure.

 

I am not so sure about that, mom says I'm trash.

MaliceA4Thought #49 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:24 PM

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View Postm373x, on 30 April 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

 

I am not so sure about that, mom says I'm trash.

 

yeah but you don't have to keep proving it :)

 

M


  

 

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, whilst defeated warriors go to war and then seek to win
(Sun Tzu)

A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "My Country" for an amount of "up to and including my life."


m373x #50 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:27 PM

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View PostMaliceA4Thought, on 30 April 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

yeah but you don't have to keep proving it :)

 

M

 

Why not if I enjoy it? I am not here to please you after all.

Montana_Prussian #51 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:28 PM

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View PostTalonV, on 30 April 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Sorry my good fox. This is what happened in tanks. Ships was doomed to go the same way.

 

Although this community is far more civil than Tanks ever was.

1Sherman #52 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:34 PM

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View PostKitsunelegend, on 30 April 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

Please keep in mind, before continuing, that I'm writing this while both stressed out and sleep deprived, so if something doesn't make sense, or seems off or is spelled incorrectly and I use improper grammar, thats probably why.

 

Lately I've noticed an increasing trend among this community, from all sides. From the normal forum users, to the community contributors, to some of the more well known forum goers, where it seems to me at least, that a very bad level of toxicity is taking over, especially when talking about anything regarding stats, be it from ship stats, to server stats, to personal stats...

 

People are becoming very salty about losing a couple games in a row. They're seemingly so caught up in ship stats and trying to make sure ships are always able to win a 1v1 against their own class, to worrying about their own personal stats and trying to use them as a means of bragging...I'm not at all saying this is a bad thing, but lately I've noticed it seems to be getting out of control.

 

People seem to be playing this game to be the best at it. To be super competitive against the best. To be "MLG" or something. What ever happened to just playing the game because "hey! Thats a famous battleship!" Or "hey! I love cruisers cause they were the work horses of X navy!" or "I play CVs because I like naval aviation!" 

 

People seem so caught up on playing their stats and not actually playing the game. They're missing the whole point of this game by doing this, and what it means to have a community that we used to have.

 

Back in CBT, I saw people who enjoyed the game because X ship was in the game. This is what I mean. Not too many people seemed to really care all that much about stats. They didn't really seem to worry about having purple stat cards or anything like that, not to say they didn't try to play their best. They still tried to play for the win of course, like anyone should, but if they made a mistake that got them sunk, or they messed up and ended up losing because of it, they went "oh well, shite happens =P" then they went off into the next game and enjoyed blowing things up. They didn't let it get to them.

 

I'm worried this community is losing site of what made it so much better than WoT. I'm worried this community is becoming what it feared most....there are still some amazing individuals around, who go out of their way to help others. There are still some who play the game only because they enjoy naval history. But for the most part, players are getting much more upset, much more salty, much more...angry...and over all negative lately...

 

I know I seem like I'm rambling...but things that have happened recently in my life...from a very close family member having a cancer scare, nearly losing another family member, to actually losing a childhood friend to a drug overdose of all things, and to having to deal with major health issues of my own... its put things into perspective for me...its shown just how negative this community has become lately...

 

And I'm scared....I'm scared, because it feels like its driving me away... I try to be care free and let it slide...I try to just enjoy this game because "yay floaty botes!" but its just....draining me...on top of everything else...

 

I'm scared...because I don't want to lose what I consider my second home... I may not show it at times...but I hold a LOT of you guys as close friends...even if I don't tell you...or we've never played together, or never spoke on comms... I don't want to lose what we once were...

 

 

This is your very worried and scare local kitsune...signing off...

 

I'm sorry that you feel this way and I offer my condolences for the trials and tribulations that you've been facing in your personal life, but I think you're suffering from a bit of confirmation bias. As always, the people who complain about this game are a small minority. Small, but vocal. They make themselves heard and people end up misinterpreting the anger of a small amount of people as the beliefs of the majority. There are countless examples of this throughout history and in the world right now (which I won't go into because then I'd get a warning for talking politics). Just know that the majority of the people playing this game aren't the angry types you hear from here and the angry types you hear from here are not the majority.

"To defeat an enemy you must know them. Not simply their battle tactics, but their history, philosophy, art."

"War. It's all you've ever known, isn't it? You were so young when you survived the Clone War. No wonder you're as equipped in spirit to fight as well as you do. War is, in your blood. I study the art of war, work to perfect it. But you, you were forged by it.

"Everything leading up to this moment has been rehearsal. The real performance is about to begin. I'm counting on it."

"They revealed their meager defenses. Now we will crush them."

"I'm not accepting surrenders at this time. I want you to know failure, utter defeat, and that it is I who delivers it crashing down upon you. Now. let us proceed."


yUPPatriots #53 Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:41 PM

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View Post1Sherman, on 30 April 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

As always, the people who complain about this game are a small minority. Small, but vocal.

 

lol clearly - 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Shadow_1964 #54 Posted 30 April 2017 - 03:03 PM

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View PostEisennagel, on 30 April 2017 - 12:15 AM, said:

 

 

Successful alpha types would not be playing games, they are too busy and tired from real life.  Game communities tend to attract real life losers, looking to vent their frustrations on the game.

 

 

 

NOT necessarily correct...................... and you can find losers anywhere you look.

Edited by Shadow_1964, 30 April 2017 - 03:14 PM.


SkaerKrow #55 Posted 30 April 2017 - 03:03 PM

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View PostMontana_Prussian, on 30 April 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

Although this community is far more civil than Tanks ever was.

 

It really, really isn't. Tanks has a problem with a lot of toxic individuals acting toxic individually. Warships has a whole toxic culture running through it. The chorus may be louder in Tanks, but in Warships all of those toxic voices sing the same ugly refrain.

Shadow_1964 #56 Posted 30 April 2017 - 03:08 PM

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View PostKitsunelegend, on 29 April 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

Please keep in mind, before continuing, that I'm writing this while both stressed out and sleep deprived, so if something doesn't make sense, or seems off or is spelled incorrectly and I use improper grammar, thats probably why.

 

Lately I've noticed an increasing trend among this community, from all sides. From the normal forum users, to the community contributors, to some of the more well known forum goers, where it seems to me at least, that a very bad level of toxicity is taking over, especially when talking about anything regarding stats, be it from ship stats, to server stats, to personal stats...

 

People are becoming very salty about losing a couple games in a row. They're seemingly so caught up in ship stats and trying to make sure ships are always able to win a 1v1 against their own class, to worrying about their own personal stats and trying to use them as a means of bragging...I'm not at all saying this is a bad thing, but lately I've noticed it seems to be getting out of control.

 

People seem to be playing this game to be the best at it. To be super competitive against the best. To be "MLG" or something. What ever happened to just playing the game because "hey! Thats a famous battleship!" Or "hey! I love cruisers cause they were the work horses of X navy!" or "I play CVs because I like naval aviation!" 

 

People seem so caught up on playing their stats and not actually playing the game. They're missing the whole point of this game by doing this, and what it means to have a community that we used to have.

 

Back in CBT, I saw people who enjoyed the game because X ship was in the game. This is what I mean. Not too many people seemed to really care all that much about stats. They didn't really seem to worry about having purple stat cards or anything like that, not to say they didn't try to play their best. They still tried to play for the win of course, like anyone should, but if they made a mistake that got them sunk, or they messed up and ended up losing because of it, they went "oh well, shite happens =P" then they went off into the next game and enjoyed blowing things up. They didn't let it get to them.

 

I'm worried this community is losing site of what made it so much better than WoT. I'm worried this community is becoming what it feared most....there are still some amazing individuals around, who go out of their way to help others. There are still some who play the game only because they enjoy naval history. But for the most part, players are getting much more upset, much more salty, much more...angry...and over all negative lately...

 

I know I seem like I'm rambling...but things that have happened recently in my life...from a very close family member having a cancer scare, nearly losing another family member, to actually losing a childhood friend to a drug overdose of all things, and to having to deal with major health issues of my own... its put things into perspective for me...its shown just how negative this community has become lately...

 

And I'm scared....I'm scared, because it feels like its driving me away... I try to be care free and let it slide...I try to just enjoy this game because "yay floaty botes!" but its just....draining me...on top of everything else...

 

I'm scared...because I don't want to lose what I consider my second home... I may not show it at times...but I hold a LOT of you guys as close friends...even if I don't tell you...or we've never played together, or never spoke on comms... I don't want to lose what we once were...

 

 

This is your very worried and scare local kitsune...signing off...

 

Hang in there, Kit. You have lots of friends. Godspeed to you sir!

JCC45 #57 Posted 30 April 2017 - 03:09 PM

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View Postm373x, on 30 April 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

 

Why not if I enjoy it? I am not here to please you after all.

 

Are you here to piss people off? Is that really your highest aspiration?

Edited by JCC45, 30 April 2017 - 03:09 PM.


SireneRacker #58 Posted 30 April 2017 - 03:33 PM

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View Postkhaenn35, on 30 April 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

I don't wish to insult you, but that right there can show why the game is getting more Toxic. Stat-minding. Welcoming toxicity. Name-calling. Self-superiority. Toxicity brings out the worst in others- I love this community. I respect it, it's one of the places that is dignified in the internet world and I am honored to be part of it and I try my best to stay at my best behavior on it. (Which is not saying much, being a "Young 'un") But in other communities, where people moderate themselves less, the worse side of me tends to slip out. 

 

On the internet not your age should matter, but the intellectual worth of what you write. A 12 year old boy writing more intelligent stuff than a 39 year old man is in my opinion more welcome. That is what makes the internet different, here you can hide your age. This allows for one to avoid those situations where people go like 'You are too young for this', but unfortunately it also allows trolls to do their thing.


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Kitsunelegend #59 Posted 30 April 2017 - 04:02 PM

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Well...after reading through all the posts just now, I just wanted to extend my thanks to everyone who posted here last night. I meant this thread as a way to pseudo warn the community about what I've noticed it becoming...in the hopes that maybe people would start realizing that being salty, being uber competitive, bashing others because they have a sub 50% winrate, and other such behavior was just flat out wrong. Admittedly I probably could have worded this thread slightly better...but for the most part, its all true. 

 

When I started in this game, way back in CBT, this community was very helpful. New comers were greeted with respect and given tips and tricks about how to play, what to look out for, what forum topics to avoid, or what questions to ask if any needed to be. It was a great place. People would post fun topics about speculation on what ships we might see in the future, what they'd look like, what tier they'd be, and how they might play differently compared to X ship. It was a great place for anyone who just enjoyed sailing big hulking piles of steel around in the sea and shooting at other big hulking piles of steel.

 

There was next to no stat shaming, barely any super competitiveness even though people still tried playing for the win (which theres nothing wrong with) but if you lost, it wasn't a big deal.

 

Now though? I feel like stats and winning are WAY to much on the for-front of this forum. People get stupidly angry and upset because they lost 3 games in a row. The fun forum posts barely ever get posted anymore, were as the super salty posts get 10+ pages worth of attention.

 

I think SkaerKrow put it best as to how I'm feeling right now regarding one point I made...

 

View PostSkaerKrow, on 30 April 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

People get treated like trash in this community for having bad or mediocre stats. It's more than just the social currency, stats are something that some people seem to regard as being analogous to an individual's worth as a human being. I've had some moments of genuine angst knowing that I tanked my stats a bit during a non-productive evening of play, just because I don't want to be looked down on by my "peers." That added pressure is going to make people very, very touchy about perceived lack of effectiveness of teams, or assumed imbalances in the game, and that's going to bring out a lot of salt.

 

So....because of this...I'm going to suggest something that I feel will get me a lot of hate...but that could potentially fix at least some of the toxicity this forum has right now...

 

I suggest, that WG get rid of publicly available personal stats. Meaning, you cannot view other people's stats, at all, unless they themselves post a screenshot of said stats. You can still view you're own stats so you can see where you need to improve, or where you might be having some issues, but no-one can look you up and start bashing you simply for asking "how do I play X ship?" because believe me, I've seen that happen.

 

Secondly....I suggest either to bring back downvotes, or get rid of upvotes completely, even from the front news page. I don't know what it is, but I feel like some people try to upvote farm by making posts about extremely hot topics and basically adding to the salt and toxicity of this forum. So yeah....at least an idea anyway...

 

Thirdly... and this is one more for WG than anything... the forum mods really need to step up their game. They need to lock threads that are nothing but vitriol and are causing nothing but arguments and toxicity. Now, this isn't to say that threads bringing issues about the game to light should be silenced. Hell now. But threads containing no constructive feedback have no place in this forum. 

 

Threads like Dseehafer's however, are threads that SHOULD be posted. I enjoy reading his threads about the issues with the Tirpitz model, or various other ships. Those types of threads are good, not only for this game, but for the community and WG as a whole, since they show issues with the game, are respectfully written, are decently thought out, and offer fixes, suggestions, and constructive feedback that is helpful to the devs.

 

Theres probably a couple more I have, but my back is killing me atm so I need to go lay down for a while. I understand some of these suggestions will probably get me a little bit of hate, but I can live it. I also want you're guys thoughts on these ideas. Do you agree? Do you not agree? If so, why? Do you have better ideas? More to add to my own?

 

I just want this forum to be more about the game, and not about what ship is OP right now who is the best of the best player or why Y player sucks donkey butt.

 

I'll add more to this later...sorry if this post seems a bit...long winded and probably not well thought out...I'm currently hopped up on painkillers to my focus is a bit..skewed atm.

 

 


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Bacon and coffee pleases teh kitsune -w- 

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[Battleships:] Mikasa, South Carolina, Ishizuchi, Arkansas BetaImperator Nikolai I, TexasWarspite, Arizona, Dunkerque, New Mexico, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, North Carolina, Alabama, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Iowa [Cruisers:] Erie, Albany, Emden, Aurora, Oleg, St Louis, KatoriYubari, Konigsburg, Marblehead, Omaha, Murmansk, ClevelandMolotov, Perth, Duca D'Aosta, Atlanta, Atago, Indianapolis, Prinz Eugen, Mikhail Kutuzov [Carriers:] Saipan [Destroyers:] Tachibana, SmithWickes, Clemson, Isokaze, Lo YangCampbeltownBlyskawicaSimsAnshan

Arpeggio ships: ARP Kongou, ARP Kirishima, ARP Hiei, ARP Ashigara, ARP Nachi, ARP Takao


SireneRacker #60 Posted 30 April 2017 - 04:16 PM

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View PostKitsunelegend, on 30 April 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

-snip-

 

I can agree to most of what you said. Especially the part with locking threads that are non-constructive. I am not saying that this one is an example of the Mods doing something wrong, that would be a violation of the Forum rules, this thread is more of an example of how easily a thread can get off topic http://forum.worldof...rriage/#topmost Remember it Kitsune?

 

Get yourself some rest, don't want you to take too many painkillers.


Proud member of [WAIFU], nothing beats Prinz Eugen

 

Torpedoes don't have any friends. So they will kill everything in their path. To prevent team kills we should all watch out where we fire those fishes. That means each and everyone of us, DDs of the second line!

No my name does NOT refer to those things from Odysseus! They refer to those loud things attached to a fire truck. Not to beautiful girls singing on the Ocean.






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