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Cruiser Perth


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HazeGrayUnderway #21 Posted 30 April 2017 - 06:44 PM

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Why or Why Not Perth?

 

Things to be wary about:

- Very short main battery range, this is her greatest liability.

- Not exactly tough but many Cruisers aren't.

- AA is terrible.

- Like other RN CLs, feels highly vulnerable when smoke is on CD.

- The smoke active time, i.e. how long the smoke that is dropped lasts on the map, is extremely short.  This is not a "team utility" smoke like every other smoke pattern out there in the game.  Division mates with tight communication can use it but not the random teammate.  This is not smoke you can drop for your team to camp in.

 

What she is good for:

- Very stealthy for Tier VI.

- While the smoke that is dropped doesn't last long, Perth's smoke generator pumps it out for a long, long, LONG time.  This is crucial because this is what enables her to do "Creeping Smoke" for the entire time the consumable is active.  No other ship is like that in the game, not even DDs do that.  Move Perth in 1/4 speed, pop smoke and go to town.  Creeping Smoke is a huge advantage because you are not stationary and smoke tends to invite a lot of torpedoes, it's a bit harder when that smoke is moving.  But to be sure, do this while angled and not fully broadside because skilled players will still take shots at the "Leading Edge" of your smoke as you move.

- Has the flexibility of HE+AP shell selection, something Belfast gets but all normal RN CL's don't.  Both shells are very viable, especially considering the short range nature of Perth.  If something is broadside, plant AP.  At the ranges Perth fights, it's very dangerous to opposing ships, superstructures.

- Unlike Belfast, Perth has torps.

- Does not have Radar access but unlike Belfast and RN CLs, Perth has a good combination:  Smoke, Hydro, HE+AP shells, Torpedoes, Catapult Fighter / Spotter Plane.  Yes, she can have a plane up to spot for her while in smoke, something no other RN CL can do.  Belfast has however Radar to see through smoke but the duration isn't long for normal spotting like the Catapult Fighter / Spotter Plane.  Catapult Fighters in particular are up for a very long time.

 

Perth is a big ship of contradictions.  But she has some gimmicks and as a total package, gives her user tools to do well with.  But as with any other RN CL, screw it up, you is dead.  Lastly OP, there was a recent thread about Perth and Smoke Generator Mod 1 use and IMO, it's the best fit in the game for it to go on her.  I'm loathe to use that mod on anything else.  You can see the thread here with how the smoke generator is affected with and without the mod.


Edited by HazeGrayUnderway, 30 April 2017 - 06:47 PM.


Bill_Halsey #22 Posted 01 May 2017 - 04:13 AM

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The weakness of the the Perth using her moving smoke screen is this: You will be blind in some distances. Hydro will allow you to acquire torpedoes @ 2.82 km and ships @ 3.96km. A spotter plane appears to have a spotting range between 8-15 km if you are inside the smoke cloud. That means you are blind in the 4-8 km band unless there are ships outside who are spotting. One thing I've done is go to 1/2 speed just to take a peek and go back down. Long enough to decided to keep engaging (and launch torps) or now is a good time to run. You definitively have to make a decision @ the 20-30 sec mark. If you have to disengage, go silent at the 20 sec mark,  make full speed and do a 180 away or directly towards the nearest friendlies.

 

The installation of the mod 1 allows you to be aggressive in taking and contesting caps with dd's. It will depend if your uptiered because if you have T8 cruisers with radar, using the smoke cloud just  make yourself a sitting duck.

 

Now how successful can you be? Like this:

 

 

 

 


Edited by Bill_Halsey, 01 May 2017 - 11:47 AM.


cheereereerios #23 Posted 01 May 2017 - 02:29 PM

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Two important negatives:

 

She's not a RN ship. She's a Commonwealth ship, so you will be training a captain up from scratch.

 

Also, the smoke cooldown basically starts from the END of your smoke. On regular ships, the smoke deploys and the cooldown starts while you are using it. But on Perth, you are deploying the smoke until the very end. You then end up with 3+ minutes without smoke iirc.  :/


Edited by cheereereerios, 01 May 2017 - 02:29 PM.


Sotaudi #24 Posted 01 May 2017 - 04:30 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 30 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Like other RN CLs, feels highly vulnerable when smoke is on CD.

 

View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 30 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

- Has the flexibility of HE+AP shell selection, something Belfast gets but all normal RN CL's don't.

 

 I am sure you are aware of this since this is an easy thing to misstate, but just to set the record straight, the Perth shares some commonalities with the RN ships, but it is not actually an RN ship.  It is a Commonwealth (Australian) ship.

 

Other than that, what you are saying is spot on.


 

I would add one thing about the smoke, though.  You have pointed out that the smoke essentially "moves" with you because it keeps generating, so as long as you stay at 12.5 knots or less (basically, 1/4 for all practical purposes), you stay concealed while moving.  However, in any ship, you can end up exiting your smoke be it to escape some well placed torpedoes or to avoid some moro ... err ... teammate that is about to ram you, sitting behind you shooting through you at another target, etc..  With all other ships, you either have to abandon your smoke, try to stop and back up, or turn around and get back in or behind it, all usually while under fire.  If you have to accelerate out of your smoke in the Perth for some reason, you can simply slow back down and your smoke will reform around you.  Likewise, if you have to run because someone is getting too close, for instance, you can turn away from the enemy and hit the gas.  Provided no one is to the sides (or no aircraft can spot you), the smoke will continue to generate behind you and cover your escape.  If you were "de-cloaked" from by proximity, radar, or hydro, once you get beyond the detection ranges, again, the smoke will cover your escape.


Edited by Sotaudi, 01 May 2017 - 05:45 PM.


HazeGrayUnderway #25 Posted 01 May 2017 - 06:54 PM

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View PostSotaudi, on 01 May 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

 

 

 I am sure you are aware of this since this is an easy thing to misstate, but just to set the record straight, the Perth shares some commonalities with the RN ships, but it is not actually an RN ship.  It is a Commonwealth (Australian) ship.

 

Other than that, what you are saying is spot on.


 

I would add one thing about the smoke, though.  You have pointed out that the smoke essentially "moves" with you because it keeps generating, so as long as you stay at 12.5 knots or less (basically, 1/4 for all practical purposes), you stay concealed while moving.  However, in any ship, you can end up exiting your smoke be it to escape some well placed torpedoes or to avoid some moro ... err ... teammate that is about to ram you, sitting behind you shooting through you at another target, etc..  With all other ships, you either have to abandon your smoke, try to stop and back up, or turn around and get back in or behind it, all usually while under fire.  If you have to accelerate out of your smoke in the Perth for some reason, you can simply slow back down and your smoke will reform around you.  Likewise, if you have to run because someone is getting too close, for instance, you can turn away from the enemy and hit the gas.  Provided no one is to the sides (or no aircraft can spot you), the smoke will continue to generate behind you and cover your escape.  If you were "de-cloaked" from by proximity, radar, or hydro, once you get beyond the detection ranges, again, the smoke will cover your escape.

 

Perth is a Leander class "gamed up" by WG to be the way it is.  It also maintains the smoke generation theme, albeit differently, as her sister Leander, as no other Cruisers except these 2 can smoke.  That's why I still lump her in the RN CL family of ships.

crzyhawk #26 Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:18 AM

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She was also commissioned into the Royal Navy as HMS Amphion before she was transferred to the RAN as HMAS Perth.


Sotaudi #27 Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:57 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 01 May 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

 

Perth is a Leander class "gamed up" by WG to be the way it is.  It also maintains the smoke generation theme, albeit differently, as her sister Leander, as no other Cruisers except these 2 can smoke.  That's why I still lump her in the RN CL family of ships.

 

I understand the reasoning and the comparison is clearly valid.  The only reason I mention it is that someone less familiar with the game might not understand the context and get the Perth expecting it to be an RN Premium.

Rabidnid3 #28 Posted 05 May 2017 - 09:38 PM

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View PostHerr_Reitz, on 28 April 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

So that's the specialty (novelty) item which makes the Perth desirable? I was looking her over in the tech tree (using the WoWS mod) to ascertain why people like her so much. I was comparing her to a Belfast and other cruisers at/near her tier. 

 

It just  wasn't obvious to me - so are there other reasons besides the 'moving smoke cloud' cause I'm curious too. 

 

Very nice HE.

Hydro

Spotter or fighter

OP smoke. 

No repair

100 mm belt


Edited by Rabidnid3, 05 May 2017 - 09:39 PM.


crzyhawk #29 Posted 06 May 2017 - 05:01 AM

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View PostHerr_Reitz, on 28 April 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

So that's the specialty (novelty) item which makes the Perth desirable? I was looking her over in the tech tree (using the WoWS mod) to ascertain why people like her so much. I was comparing her to a Belfast and other cruisers at/near her tier. 

 

It just  wasn't obvious to me - so are there other reasons besides the 'moving smoke cloud' cause I'm curious too. 

 

With a CE captain, she also gets her concealment down to 8.6, so she's very very stealthy.  Perth has a lot of utility.  She's got the creeping smoke and can equip either a spotter or a fighter to spot for herself while she's in smoke.  Her concealment allows her to go places other cruisers can't go, plus she's got the single shot torps like RN cruisers which can be a nasty surprise for people.  She can accelerate like an RN cruiser, which means if you're running hydro while in smoke, and someone tries to torp you, you can accelerate quickly, make the dodge, then slow back down and get back into your smoke.  A Leander dodging torps has to just straight up leave its smoke.


HazeGrayUnderway #30 Posted 06 May 2017 - 07:42 AM

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Played with a bit of savvy, Perth is a Capping Cruiser.  She's an uncommon sight in this game and people often wonder WTH they're supposed to do. 

 

Firstly, people don't like getting accurately shot at by someone in smoke, which Perth can do solo because unlike other smoke Cruisers, Perth can spot for herself!  Her shooting from smoke in a cap is the first deterrent to scare people away.

 

Secondly, the other instinct to attack smoke users is simply torp the s--t out of it.  But Perth uses Creeping Smoke and can move!  This is not like some RN CL trying to cap inside a very tiny smoke pattern to torpedo the s--t out of.  DD smoke is better but sometimes we don't get the luxury of DDs for every cap to contest, sometimes you get 1 or 0 DDs on your team.  crzyhawk already listed some counters Perth has for torpedoes.

 

Thirdly... Okay, the reds get an idea there's a stupid Cruiser in the cap.  Get a big bad ship and rush it, right?  Well, Perth has AP & HE shell options, so going bow on isn't like doing same against an RN CL and bouncing their shells with no HE at all from them.  She has torpedoes to use against rushing ships.

 

Fourth, Radar for most of the matches Perth fights in is rare.  It's worst for her when in a Tier VIII match when there's a lot of Tier VIII Radar Cruisers, but for Tier VII it's Atlanta, Indianapolis, and the ultra rare Flint.  Tier V-VI?  No Radar Crusiers.

===

The last nice thing about Perth in a capping situation and ahead of the team is that even when in smoke, due to Hydro and / or float plane use, she can spot for the team!  Not even a DD can do that! :D



HMS_Formidable #31 Posted 06 May 2017 - 12:20 PM

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I tested the idea of using fighters to spot for Perth instead of Spotters.

Why?

- they are more resilient

- they stay in the air much, much longer

 

I have found the loss of range bonus to be no loss at all.

Having long-term eyes in the sky is a clear advantage

 


http://www.armouredcarriers.com/title/

 

It is often said that the battleship died because it was vulnerable:
this cannot be correct since the new capital ship, the carrier, was far more vulnerable.
The battleship died because it had very little capability for damaging the enemy.

— Brown, D. K: Nelson to Vanguard: Warship Design and Development 


Bill_Halsey #32 Posted 06 May 2017 - 02:20 PM

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View PostHMS_Formidable, on 06 May 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

I tested the idea of using fighters to spot for Perth instead of Spotters.

Why?

- they are more resilient

- they stay in the air much, much longer

 

I have found the loss of range bonus to be no loss at all.

Having long-term eyes in the sky is a clear advantage

 

 

I prefer the long range bonus. I normally cloak just before or when I get spotted and start whaling away. If I have to disengage, I turn directly or angled away and I can still shoot away. Plus spotter allows you to shoot over islands or shoot ships hiding behind islands.

 

Oh and a shot from last night. When they really want you dead!

 



HMS_Formidable #33 Posted 06 May 2017 - 04:27 PM

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View PostBill_Halsey, on 06 May 2017 - 11:50 PM, said:

 

I prefer the long range bonus. I normally cloak just before or when I get spotted and start whaling away. If I have to disengage, I turn directly or angled away and I can still shoot away. Plus spotter allows you to shoot over islands or shoot ships hiding behind islands.

 

Oh and a shot from last night. When they really want you dead!

 

 

I do all tou do .... just for longer, with a little less range.


http://www.armouredcarriers.com/title/

 

It is often said that the battleship died because it was vulnerable:
this cannot be correct since the new capital ship, the carrier, was far more vulnerable.
The battleship died because it had very little capability for damaging the enemy.

— Brown, D. K: Nelson to Vanguard: Warship Design and Development 


JJDOU3D #34 Posted 06 May 2017 - 11:26 PM

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View Postcheereereerios, on 01 May 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

Also, the smoke cooldown basically starts from the END of your smoke. On regular ships, the smoke deploys and the cooldown starts while you are using it. But on Perth, you are deploying the smoke until the very end. You then end up with 3+ minutes without smoke iirc.  :/



 

 

So that's why you must invest on the captain skill that reduce cooling down time (2 points) and the foxtro november flag and the premium version of the smoke screen consumable (240 to 144 seconds cooldown with all those improvements if I remember). That and the smoke generator mod 1 and you are in business with the Perth!

crzyhawk #35 Posted 07 May 2017 - 01:08 AM

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View PostHMS_Formidable, on 06 May 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

I tested the idea of using fighters to spot for Perth instead of Spotters.

Why?

- they are more resilient

- they stay in the air much, much longer

 

I have found the loss of range bonus to be no loss at all.

Having long-term eyes in the sky is a clear advantage

 

 

I agree with you, my spotters tend to get shot down far more easily than my fighters do.  I use the two fighter perk to double my chances of keeping a bird in the air.  Since I switched to fighters, I never once thought about going back to spotters.  I honestly didn't think that would be the case.


crzyhawk #36 Posted 07 May 2017 - 01:10 AM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 06 May 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

Played with a bit of savvy, Perth is a Capping Cruiser.  She's an uncommon sight in this game and people often wonder WTH they're supposed to do. 

 

Firstly, people don't like getting accurately shot at by someone in smoke, which Perth can do solo because unlike other smoke Cruisers, Perth can spot for herself!  Her shooting from smoke in a cap is the first deterrent to scare people away.

 

Secondly, the other instinct to attack smoke users is simply torp the s--t out of it.  But Perth uses Creeping Smoke and can move!  This is not like some RN CL trying to cap inside a very tiny smoke pattern to torpedo the s--t out of.  DD smoke is better but sometimes we don't get the luxury of DDs for every cap to contest, sometimes you get 1 or 0 DDs on your team.  crzyhawk already listed some counters Perth has for torpedoes.

 

Thirdly... Okay, the reds get an idea there's a stupid Cruiser in the cap.  Get a big bad ship and rush it, right?  Well, Perth has AP & HE shell options, so going bow on isn't like doing same against an RN CL and bouncing their shells with no HE at all from them.  She has torpedoes to use against rushing ships.

 

Fourth, Radar for most of the matches Perth fights in is rare.  It's worst for her when in a Tier VIII match when there's a lot of Tier VIII Radar Cruisers, but for Tier VII it's Atlanta, Indianapolis, and the ultra rare Flint.  Tier V-VI?  No Radar Crusiers.

===

The last nice thing about Perth in a capping situation and ahead of the team is that even when in smoke, due to Hydro and / or float plane use, she can spot for the team!  Not even a DD can do that! :D

 

These are why I think Perth is going to be a nasty customer if we do t6 ranked.  She's just got so many tools to use.  I also don't think that lower skilled players will be able to take full advantage, so it won't be like Belfast city T7 was.  Good players in a Perth will make a huge difference in the games though imo.


HazeGrayUnderway #37 Posted 07 May 2017 - 03:54 AM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 06 May 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

 

These are why I think Perth is going to be a nasty customer if we do t6 ranked.  She's just got so many tools to use.  I also don't think that lower skilled players will be able to take full advantage, so it won't be like Belfast city T7 was.  Good players in a Perth will make a huge difference in the games though imo.

 

T6 Ranked?  IMO, Leander and Perth will be great.  Smoke will be a major thing because there are no Radar-capable ships at Tier VI.  It will be hard for Hydro Cruisers to close in to expose Leander and Perth because let's face it, on average Cruisers below Tier VIII have lousy concealment.

 

The trick will be Carriers, no stopping a decently played CV from manual dropping torpedoes into the smoke.  Perth has s--t AA.



crzyhawk #38 Posted 07 May 2017 - 06:11 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 06 May 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

The trick will be Carriers, no stopping a decently played CV from manual dropping torpedoes into the smoke.  Perth has s--t AA.

 

see two, leave queue

 

The only cruiser to fear in one or Her Majesty's T6 cruisers is the Graf Spee.  She doesn't have concealment, but excellent hydro, firepower and survivability.  I will likely play Spee in ranked as well.


Edited by crzyhawk, 07 May 2017 - 06:15 PM.


Landing_Skipper #39 Posted 07 May 2017 - 07:58 PM

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After 27 battles in Perth I have to add that I love her! :D

 

I've tried the spotter plane.  However, fighters last longer 360s vs. 180s), have a faster cooldown (120 vs. 240), and are tougher in terms of getting shot down.

 

The guns, HE and AP, are identical to Belfast's.  Chance of fire per shell is only 11% with Demo Expert, but I seem to get a LOT of fire damage. (no IFHE yet...)

 

Torps are identical to Leander with 8.0 km range, speed of 61 knots and detection at only 1.3km.  Max damage is 15,433 HP so they are powerful weapons.  Plus you can do some fun things with the single launch in terms of weird, unpredictable spreads.  A simple line works very well at targets coming around an island.

 

I'm finally learning how to use hydro between Perth and Gaede.  Torps at 2.8km and ships at 4.0km.  Just had a Shira make the mistake of trying to ambush me in my smoke to figure out where I was.

 

More than any other ship, Perth forces you to really pay attention to managing your consumables.

 

I only have 11 captain skill points and am NOT using Concealment Expert.  Have Superintendent (essential) and Demo Expert plus Jack of All Trades instead.  Adding flag, JOAT takes smoke reload down from 160s to 144s.  Smoke activation is 117s with the special upgrade.

 

My sample size of 27 is statistically too small.  However, Perth is my best performing T6 cruiser by a significant margin.  Avg damage 50k, avg kills 1.3, avp XP with Premium 1,700.  Win rate is sky high for me in a cruiser.


"Plan to be wrong about something." PRR (he knows who he is)

Bill_Halsey #40 Posted 10 May 2017 - 06:30 PM

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This is how I'm doing right now vs the NA server stats for the Perth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NA Server Stat Avg

 

72806         51.48%    28931      1072      0.9       0.7      0.5    26%         35%     8%  955


 

Player AVG

 

 

168             48.21%    34176      1219      1.2      0.8        0.2  38%         28%      5%    1042


 

Win rate is lower than average but I 've been involved in a streak where matches collapse in 8 minutes or less and Perth is not a ship with a great alpha strike short of launching torps at CQB ranges. What I am doing great though is farming damage, specially when I do the squid routine. The smoke mod 1  keeps me alive longer. The spotter allows me to engage up to 15km, but accuracy falls when trying to shoot in 3D and both you and the target are engaging in evasive maneuvers.


 

What I suspect is that most Perth owners tend to play this ship as a large destroyer. It certainly can be done but it's a high risk high reward strategy. I tend to hold fire until they just about reach my detection range, go to 1/4 speed and do the walking smoke cloud routine, turn on hydro and start shooting. @ the 30 sec mark,see if I should turn around and go silent or keep shooting. I try and avoid CQB battles until mid-late game.

 

 

 

 






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