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Hiroe #21 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:22 PM

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View PostCaptainKaitoGhost, on 12 April 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

 

No, you were not asked a question.  A forum member expressed interest in joining a clan, he did not ask what people thought about clans in general.  You came in with no intention of answering the OP's actual question.

 

As for the rest of your post, it's quite clear my point sailed so far over your head it nearly entered orbit.

 

I was asked a question by someone else in the thread. If you had actually read the thread you would know this.

 

Your point didn't "sail over my head." I didn't think it was worth acknowledgement.


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Vossie #22 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:25 PM

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View Postsbcptnitro, on 12 April 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

This thread went places....

 

next time im gonna keep my questions to myself :hiding:

 

peace out :honoring:


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RivertheRoyal #23 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:25 PM

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I like clans. They're great for when you want to division up with someone. You can also really enjoy yourself in the right clans. 

CaptainKaitoGhost #24 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:26 PM

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View PostHiroe, on 12 April 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

I was asked a question by someone else in the thread. If you had actually read the thread you would know this.

 

Your point didn't "sail over my head." I didn't think it was worth acknowledgement.

 

Um... No.

 

View PostHiroe, on 12 April 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

Clans are a mistake.

 

^This was the very first reply in this thread.  It did nothing to address the OP's actual question, it was not constructive, and it was not helpful.


 

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Hiroe #25 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:26 PM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 12 April 2017 - 04:25 PM, said:

I like clans. They're great for when you want to division up with someone. You can also really enjoy yourself in the right clans. 

 

Yes, in the "right clans." I agree with you on this.

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renegadestatuz #26 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:27 PM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 12 April 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

I like clans. They're great for when you want to division up with someone. You can also really enjoy yourself in the right clans. 

I love our clan :) and it's always fun to div with you River!


 
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Hiroe #27 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:28 PM

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View PostCaptainKaitoGhost, on 12 April 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

 

Um... No.

 

^This was the very first reply in this thread.  It did nothing to address the OP's actual question, it was not constructive, and it was not helpful.

 

It was helpful and constructive by my standards.

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CaptainKaitoGhost #28 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:29 PM

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View PostHiroe, on 12 April 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

 

It was helpful and constructive by my standards.

 

Your standards must be incredibly low.

 

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Hiroe #29 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:30 PM

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View PostCaptainKaitoGhost, on 12 April 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

 

Your standards must be incredibly low.

 

Incorrect. I like the truth. Sometimes only a single sentence is required to convey it.

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CaptainKaitoGhost #30 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:33 PM

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View PostHiroe, on 12 April 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

 

Incorrect. I like the truth. Sometimes only a single sentence is required to convey it.

 

Clearly not.

 

You like your version of the truth.  There is a rather big difference.


 

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Hiroe #31 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:34 PM

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View PostCaptainKaitoGhost, on 12 April 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

 

Clearly not.

 

You like your version of the truth.  There is a rather big difference.

 

I wrote some about why I think what I think. What specifically do you disagree with?

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RivertheRoyal #32 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:38 PM

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View Postrenegadestatuz, on 12 April 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

I love our clan :) and it's always fun to div with you River!

 

Oh, did you see the request from Admiral to join? I'm wondering because I saw it last night. 

renegadestatuz #33 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:39 PM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 12 April 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

 

Oh, did you see the request from Admiral to join? I'm wondering because I saw it last night. 

No I didn't lol. I haven't looked yet. I've been using the PTS. But I'll go look and talk to Doc about it.


 
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RivertheRoyal #34 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:41 PM

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View Postrenegadestatuz, on 12 April 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

No I didn't lol. I haven't looked yet. I've been using the PTS. But I'll go look and talk to Doc about it.

 

Sure. Just wanted to check up with you on that. 

renegadestatuz #35 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:42 PM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 12 April 2017 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

Sure. Just wanted to check up with you on that. 

Thank you for pointing it out River.


 
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CaptainKaitoGhost #36 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:43 PM

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View PostHiroe, on 12 April 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

 

I wrote some about why I think what I think. What specifically do you disagree with?

 

It does not really matter, since this topic isn't about your feelings on clans in general, but I will humor you.

 

View PostHiroe, on 12 April 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

 

Do you only give your opinions when they're explicitly asked for? I doubt it.

 

 

Feel free to point out exactly how in the future instead of making statements such as this one.

 

 

K, here are some of my thoughts and feelings on the matter:

 

They encourage an "us versus them" mentality (people who participate in clan activities vs "pubbies"). This can be observed in the extremely polarized World of Tanks community. You also have "unicums" and "super unicums," the ones who prefer clan activities the most in my experience, treating those they perceive as beneath them like human trash because of the mentality they have developed in their insulated clan environment. Also, the "clan activities" add something of consequence to clans, so many people are kind of beguiled by the existence of the possibility of reward into thinking clans are more generally important entities.

 

Not only that, but then they have the security of proximity - that is to say, people who view the game similarly are nearby (referring to "elite" players) - and numbers,  and so naturally the strength and intensity of their opinions increase. And then these opinions are slowly pushed upon the community through any medium they have access to, and such certitude is behind these opinions, because the "unicums" and "super unicums" think them without doubt after having them reinforced in their insulated environment, that everyone else can't help but think there is at least some truth to them. And the "unicums" and "super unicums" normally believe they have the best opinions and if anyone challenges them they say, "my stats are better than yours," and that's that; and also many people are hoodwinked into thinking that the commentary of these "elite" players has more weight than the commentary of almost anyone else. In short, what they say is perceived as concrete reality by many players.

 

In the end, it's a hilarious brand of "fantasy elitism" that stratifies communities in ridiculous ways, and because of the absurd and unnecessary nature of the stratification, it pushes a lot of more thoughtful people away from the community. This, too, can be observed in the World of Tanks community. Of course, the truth is that real world hierarchies should be imposed upon every instance of community in existence, but the internet is far too anarchic to allow for that; and also the natural hierarchies of the real world have been almost entirely transformed into systems of stratification based on the most irrelevant kind of wealth - material wealth - so even then the imposition of real world hierarchies doesn't produce a very desirable result.

 

So, in summary, it corrodes the quality of the community in the long term by creating an insulated environment in which ridiculous opinions are frequently reinforced, and also by adding more definition to the divisions of the community. XVM, WN8, and WTR do something similar. Not only do they create this polarization between "good" and "bad," which means "skilled" and "unskilled," but they also create an unnecessary and ridiculous implicit system of stratification that fragments the community more and more as time passes.

 

And then there is the sense of entitlement that "people who participate in clan activities" and "unicums" and "super unicums"  often have. Many of them, nowhere near all, believe that because they are skilled at this video game they have the right to behave in all sorts of revolting ways. For example, in World of Tanks, it's not exactly uncommon for clan members of certain "elite" clans, such as MAHOU and BULBA, to treat those who they perceive as beneath them like human trash. You see it on the forums and in battle and even sometimes in the garage.

 

Furthermore, in their insulated clan environment, they develop the most ridiculous expectations regarding how exactly the game "should be played," and they force these expectations on normal players. You know, the ones who play for enjoyment and relaxation, or the ones who value the source material, and those expectations, too, are backed with the same certitude I mentioned earlier; so the normal players begin to feel insecure about their approach to the game, and this insecurity is insidious, like most kinds of insecurity, because it very generally undermines self-respect and self-confidence.

 

The "unicum" says such and such about how dumb the "pubbies" are, or perhaps specifically targets a single player and unloads a barrage of preconceived criticisms at him to vent his frustration, and all of this disdain and hatred causes doubt in the normal player's mind. "Am I dumb because I'm not-so-amazing at this video game? I wonder." Whether most people acknowledge this experience is irrelevant. It happens to almost everyone.


Not all clans are like this. That goes without saying. I'm talking mainly about the "elite" clans; the ones full of people who consider themselves above the rest.

 

Anyway, in the real world, I believe in hierarchy and the like, but that's because survival is imperative in the real world, and systems of hierarchy and so on ideally (and naturally) elevate the most able (what used to be the aristocracy) to the highest levels of society. It makes sense in the real world, but it's absurd in a community such as this one.

 

 

First off, you apparently are under the assumption that whenever someone is looking for a clan, they exclusively look for the top 1% ultra-competitive clans to join.  The fact is, most clans are casual and consist entirely of people who just want to play games together with people they like.

 

Secondly, you paint all clans with a broad brush, calling them all narrow minded elitists who only want to spread their elitism.  At this point, it becomes exceedingly clear that you don't have any actual experience with the average clans.

 

In fact, your entire argument against clans isn't actually against clans at all, it's against elitist @ssholes.  Somewhere along the line, you seem to have falsely equated "elitist @sshole" to "all clans everywhere and in general".

 


 

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Cruiser_Ashigara_ #37 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:45 PM

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Hiroe #38 Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:47 PM

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View PostCaptainKaitoGhost, on 12 April 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

 

It does not really matter, since this topic isn't about your feelings on clans in general, but I will humor you.

 

 

 

First off, you apparently are under the assumption that whenever someone is looking for a clan, they exclusively look for the top 1% ultra-competitive clans to join.  The fact is, most clans are casual and consist entirely of people who just want to play games together with people they like.

 

Secondly, you paint all clans with a broad brush, calling them all narrow minded elitists who only want to spread their elitism.  At this point, it becomes exceedingly clear that you don't have any actual experience with the average clans.

 

In fact, your entire argument against clans isn't actually against clans at all, it's against elitist @ssholes.  Somewhere along the line, you seem to have falsely equated "elitist @sshole" to "all clans everywhere and in general".

 

That's understandable, but I made a statement near the end of my post:

 

"Not all clans are like this. That goes without saying. I'm talking mainly about the "elite" clans; the ones full of people who consider themselves above the rest."

 

The key issue is that "elite" clans exert much more influence than casual clans (which I have no issue with), since a lot of players seem to look up to "elite" players and clans and so on and attribute much more weight to what they say. This is an issue because "elite" players often view casuals as subhumans, and so begins the stratification that I talked about.

 

Their influence is so much greater than that of the casual clans that the entire idea of clans is kind of blackened by their existence.


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Apaosha #39 Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:08 PM

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I will never be involved with a WoWs clan yea no thanks.  Don't do it.  It's bad....

Madwolf05 #40 Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:13 PM

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Individuals exist with or without the clan and like minded ones will gather together. This is just human nature. There is nothing wrong with clans themselves or the addition of them. Most friendships in online gaming start from two people who participate in a clan or game organization of some sort.

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