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Notser on lower tier manual drop 0.6.3


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byebye360 #21 Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:32 AM

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View PostBrushWolf, on 02 April 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

 

It isn't so much that they are trying to kill the class but with every change they make the class becomes less and less accessible to average players. So taking manual drop from 4 & 5 actually opens the class to new players but it also removes the best learning tiers for manual drop creating an EVE like learning cliff at tier 6.

I do agree that tier 4 & 5 random battles should have only auto drops because AA is limited on a slot of ships, manual drops at those tiers should be usable in co-op for learning purposes.



elmattofdorr #22 Posted 06 April 2017 - 08:59 PM

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i agree with byebye. I recall a battle i had at lower tier with a German cruiser. I had equipped hydro to hunt dd's. I had the best AA hull you can get. did not mean bupkiss. Their CV literally fallowed me around and harassed me to no end. I literally had to beach myself on an island so he could not drop his torps right on top of me "because wthis arming distance anyway? lol" He then preceded to chase me around and tried to hammer and anvin kill me which i just dodged the first time. The entire time i could not shoot ships, dd's or even anything but run. He finally got me on his second run with a double point blank torp run..... tell me how i could not hate him? tell me how this is fair?  

Carrier_Lexington #23 Posted 06 April 2017 - 10:58 PM

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View Postelmattofdorr, on 06 April 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

i agree with byebye. I recall a battle i had at lower tier with a German cruiser. I had equipped hydro to hunt dd's. I had the best AA hull you can get. did not mean bupkiss. Their CV literally fallowed me around and harassed me to no end. I literally had to beach myself on an island so he could not drop his torps right on top of me "because wthis arming distance anyway? lol" He then preceded to chase me around and tried to hammer and anvin kill me which i just dodged the first time. The entire time i could not shoot ships, dd's or even anything but run. He finally got me on his second run with a double point blank torp run..... tell me how i could not hate him? tell me how this is fair?  

 

Nothing at tier 4 and not much at tier 5 has great AAA, though. It's supposed to be the Tier 1 for CVs.

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yaluen #24 Posted 08 April 2017 - 01:31 PM

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After playing 5 or so games with my Bogue (default loadout), I'm starting to doubt removing manual drop changed anything, considering I can still smack Cruisers, Battleships, and sometimes even Destroyers around with my torp drops. Heck, if it wasn't for the fact that 5 and 6 is still considered low tier, I would be beginning to wonder if we even need manual drop to begin with (which we do because people aren't idiots at tier 7 and up). Then only difference is the remove of strafe, which ironically hurts the 3 classes more since there's no easy way to stop an alpha strike against anything now.

BigJohnsonLogan #25 Posted 11 April 2017 - 04:30 AM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 26 March 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

When people jump into their favorite BB at these tiers, Seal Clubbing is fine.

When people jump into their favorite low tier Cruiser, Seal Clubbing is fine.

When people jump into their favorite low tier Destroyer, Seal Clubbing is fine.

When people jump into their favorite low tier Carrier, Seal Clubbing is suddenly not fine...

 

 

Because at least you can see the enemy BB, CC, DD but you can't see the CV because it's off hiding behind an island fapping with one hand while auto dropped torps on your BB . . .

cometguy #26 Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:01 PM

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View PostBigJohnsonLogan, on 11 April 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

 

Because at least you can see the enemy BB, CC, DD but you can't see the CV because it's off hiding behind an island fapping with one hand while auto dropped torps on your BB . . .

I wonder how effective that auto Torp drop will be if you turn.


Edited by cometguy, 11 April 2017 - 02:03 PM.


Azarath_Deathwing #27 Posted 11 April 2017 - 06:28 PM

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I've been playing CVs for a bit in game (Up to Essex in USN, Sho in IJN). I have over 700 combined matches in all of the CVs I have (329 alone in Lexington), stared in USN and only recently really got into IJN (finally woke up and realized that USN just gets ripped off most of the time in CV). I didn't learn how to manual drop until independence, and didn't master it until Ranger. Lexington was, at the same time, the most fun I have had in any ship, and the most soul-wrenching, heart-rending experiences I've ever had. 

Manual dropping at low tier is a bit up and down IMO. Seal clubbers know how to do it... newbies really don't. Showing someone how to strafe their fighters is hard enough (I had a buddy of mine come over and it took me 3 hours of us divisioning t4 CVs to get it), learning the art of manual drop can be even worse (when first starting out,l how many times did you drop too close with TBs, just to watch them bounce off the enemy ship due to failure to arm?). I think removing manual drop from t4 is not so bad an idea, but removing it from 5 is bad. It was mentioned previously... t5  is when CV drivers run into the AA wall. Cleveland, Atlanta, Yorck (nothing to sneeze at) Pensacola, the occasional Flint, not to mention t6 can also see North Carolina, New Orleans, Kutuzov (nasty AA if specced)... and most of the cruisers you run into will be packing DF, simply because they fear your planes more than a DD hiding in smoke. Manual dropping becomes much more important because this is also the tier when the ships start leaning more towards their end-line ships, and their speed and turning becomes more and more efficient. Auto dropping on a DD at this tier is laughable, and WG wants new CV players to learn manual drops against the likes of the aforementioned? That is absurd.

 

I would like to see manual drop added back into t5 CVs, simply because that is the tier when CVs start to see real competition in regards to AA, and the sooner they learn it, the more enjoyable the tree becomes to them, and not many seal clubbers run at t5 (come on... way more fun to seal club T3s :D). 



 



locked_and_firing #28 Posted 12 April 2017 - 04:55 PM

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They really should just leave the CV's alone, contrary to popular belief CV's really make a huge difference in a game and help it flow smoother and easier. Every game I have played, I see where the team values and helps their CV's are likely to win and humiliate the team that just leaves them for dead and cares less about them.  If you say they are OP you might want to look at your own play style and you might just be to arrogant to see it. I started playing CV's myself just to kinda, in hopes, of helping them make a come back. I remember before the redundant nerfs I would often shoot down planes and get so much damage and kills from CV's; I really don't think they were ever a problem, I just think people didn't and still don't know how to handle CV's and proper strategies against them. I really don't like Notser though and often ignore him, I prefer Ichase or The Mighty Jingles.

Iron_Patriot3 #29 Posted 13 April 2017 - 04:47 PM

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i just recently started to play CVs, the issue i had was when i was in an Arkansas Beta and had no chance when that manual drop came in. I agree with the manual drop removal at tier 4-5 how ever to better balance those ships so they dont get up tiered they should of gave them preferential MM cause a 5 in a 6 is death for them. now with that stated i had played them in CBT and didnt mind them all that much and really did feel like manual drop in 4 and 5 was a bit strong Due to the lack of AA. what was to stop someone who had a Bad game at tier 8 or higher to be like you know what i am gonna ruin a new players day. i am not saying everyone does it but you get that random potato and then they get hooked to the power that has and now they have ruined the game for maybe 10 new people a game. its a way to allow players to grow to  new things ie Battleships at tier 3, DDs at tier 2 look at it as a slow introduction to some new mechanic and maybe just maybe it isn't as bad as it seems. Again though i had just started playing carriers again and had some Experience in CBT and honestly dont miss the manual drops at tier 4-5. 

Palladia #30 Posted 13 April 2017 - 06:59 PM

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View Postcometguy, on 11 April 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

I wonder how effective that auto Torp drop will be if you turn.

 

You mean actually do something to mitigate incoming damage?!  Preposterous!

BigJohnsonLogan #31 Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:02 AM

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While manual drop might be gone in Tier 4 and 5, I just got a crossing drop of torpedoes from a player using the Tier 4 Japanese Carrier, so the Seal Clubbers are still finding ways to f up lower tier game play.

 

Try dodging crossing drop torpedoes in a Tier 3 French Cruiser, it ain't happening :P


Edited by BigJohnsonLogan, 22 April 2017 - 04:04 AM.


Vekta408 #32 Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:24 AM

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View PostBigJohnsonLogan, on 10 April 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

 

Because at least you can see the enemy BB, CC, DD but you can't see the CV because it's off hiding behind an island fapping with one hand while auto dropped torps on your BB . . .

 

​Only if you make it easy for them. It took a hosho  7 torp drops and 4 dive bomber drops to kill my battleship that was a tier lower than it. #WASD

Carrier_Lexington #33 Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:48 PM

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View Postlocked_and_firing, on 12 April 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

They really should just leave the CV's alone, contrary to popular belief CV's really make a huge difference in a game and help it flow smoother and easier. Every game I have played, I see where the team values and helps their CV's are likely to win and humiliate the team that just leaves them for dead and cares less about them.  If you say they are OP you might want to look at your own play style and you might just be to arrogant to see it. I started playing CV's myself just to kinda, in hopes, of helping them make a come back. I remember before the redundant nerfs I would often shoot down planes and get so much damage and kills from CV's; I really don't think they were ever a problem, I just think people didn't and still don't know how to handle CV's and proper strategies against them. I really don't like Notser though and often ignore him, I prefer Ichase or The Mighty Jingles.

Who both claim that carriers, as they currently stand, are incredibly underpowered and need to be buffed to increase their popularity and help the game.


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Carrier_Lexington #34 Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:51 PM

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View PostBigJohnsonLogan, on 21 April 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

While manual drop might be gone in Tier 4 and 5, I just got a crossing drop of torpedoes from a player using the Tier 4 Japanese Carrier, so the Seal Clubbers are still finding ways to f up lower tier game play.

 

Try dodging crossing drop torpedoes in a Tier 3 French Cruiser, it ain't happening :P

 

......... No, it "ain't" gonna happen as long as you don't press W, A, S, or D.

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The_Horned_King #35 Posted 24 April 2017 - 03:40 AM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 26 March 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

When people jump into their favorite BB at these tiers, Seal Clubbing is fine.

When people jump into their favorite low tier Cruiser, Seal Clubbing is fine.

When people jump into their favorite low tier Destroyer, Seal Clubbing is fine.

When people jump into their favorite low tier Carrier, Seal Clubbing is suddenly not fine...

The difference between a *good* CV player and a bad one is enormous.

I just had a nice CV match. I picked up Clear Skies after the enemy Independence sent out two waves, each of which was almost completely obliterated by a single strafing run by my fighter squadron. His first wave was too late to bring his fighters to bear on my first wave of bombers, who found a cruiser who failed to dodge. Then I found a grounded cruiser on their side of the islands next (second wave) for a second kill, found a DD that didn't notice my drop... spent a lot of time spotting things with my now-free-to-do-whatever fighters...

If you had the same skill gap in any other ship class (okay vs bad) it wouldn't do nearly as much to influence the rest of the game. 



icepac_hero #36 Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:22 PM

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View PostThe_Horned_King, on 24 April 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:

The difference between a *good* CV player and a bad one is enormous.

I just had a nice CV match. I picked up Clear Skies after the enemy Independence sent out two waves, each of which was almost completely obliterated by a single strafing run by my fighter squadron. His first wave was too late to bring his fighters to bear on my first wave of bombers, who found a cruiser who failed to dodge. Then I found a grounded cruiser on their side of the islands next (second wave) for a second kill, found a DD that didn't notice my drop... spent a lot of time spotting things with my now-free-to-do-whatever fighters...

If you had the same skill gap in any other ship class (okay vs bad) it wouldn't do nearly as much to influence the rest of the game. 

 

Yes and no :

  If you have a competent BB pair up against an incompetent one, it might not show simply because the competent BB got bottled up in a corner and ended up not affecting the game too much.

The issue that a C.V. bring is their ability to literally and effectively reach the entire map at all time...The other issue is the difference between a successful CV attack and an unsuccessful one.  And that is because CV have (by far) the longest rearming time of all ships.  So of course, to balance it, they have (by far) the highest potential damage per attack as well..

However, if the competent BB ends up in the middle of a melee, watch out! The results are going to be just as dramatic as it would be for a C.V. 

The problem is that the skill difference will impact the game for BB-DD-CA/Cl once every 5+ games or so and not EVERY SINGLE TIME...

 

On the other hand, no other ship can be countered as easily as a C.V. can... Group up AA bubble and done, planes are going to disappear like it's a magic show and the C.V. boat turns into a ramming barge.  1 well placed AAD activated will render the biggest most coordinated assault completely useless and thus make the C.V. useless for at least 60 secs (min.)

Just firing an AAD once in a game is enough to completely change the tide.

 

Personally I think that if there were enough CV playing the game, people would learn.  For instance I see a whole lot less BB driving in front of their fleet these days...  I think that enough of them have been torped by DD and they've learned...






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