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Admiral_Thrawn_1 #21 Posted 23 March 2017 - 11:55 PM

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Some Ai computer systems can actually be intelligent and creative in their battles against you so it is possible for Wargaming to make CO-OP ships get smarter, it's just a question if they want the Ai to get that tough or not.

I have spent enough time outwitting even highly intelligent game Ai over last few years I am not too worried lol.


Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1, 23 March 2017 - 11:55 PM.


dust340man #22 Posted 24 March 2017 - 04:18 AM

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View Postawiggin, on 23 March 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

Skynet is learning......

 

My thoughts exactly. I've got a call in to Arnold to see if he can help us out.:B They are a helluva lot better players than they were a year ago. I stick with random mainly these days unlesss I'm just playing a few relaxing low tier games. When I want stress I play random which is 98% of the time these days.:angry:

American ships: St. Louis, Phoenix, Pensacola, New York, Texas, Colorado, Wickes, Farragut, Mahan, Sims       Russian ships: Orlan, Bogatyr, Svetlana, Murmansk, Molotov, Derzki, Gnevny, Ognevoi  

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Taylor3006 #23 Posted 24 March 2017 - 05:50 AM

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View PostTTK_Aegis, on 23 March 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

Easy to counter:
Target
Line up the torp shot
X to break target
Fire

Unless the bot was going to turn anyway following its pre-determined path, or someone else fires torps at it without doing this trick (and therefore triggers an evasion) the bot will sail right into your torps every time.

 

Longer explanation:
The AI knows when you hit the fire button on torps and the ship targeted at the time has a chance to evade right then and there. If you fire with no target, it won't evade. By "chance" to evade on launch, you might notice this almost never happens at low tier and almost always does at high tier. This is because each time you fire a torp at a targeted bot, it does a little dice roll behind the scenes to see if it notices. The higher tier the bot, the more likely it is to notice.

 

This exactly, +1! Yeah got tired of bots turning the second torps were off and then read in forums somewhere about this trick. Works well when you remember to do it. They still have a chance of not being hit now, the second they detect your torps they start turning so it is more like shooting at human players without the "intuition" of knowing there is a torp armed ship, expect torps, that humans have.

thehelmsman #24 Posted 24 March 2017 - 03:18 PM

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The other thing about the bots is that they always know where you are, even if you're not spotted. They can't shoot you unless you're lit, but they always know where you are.

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Sotaudi #25 Posted 30 March 2017 - 09:40 PM

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View PostDingBat, on 23 March 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

 

In my experience, that's not the way the bots function. They prioritize destroyers over everything else, regardless of range or threat.

 


Sorry to get back to this late, but I wanted to run some battles in my Okhotnik to give some specific examples rather than just speaking in generalities, and this is the first time I had a chance to respond.


 

I have screen shots of both examples I am going to discuss, but I don't use any sites that allow you to link pictures, and I am too lazy to go out and set something up.


 

In any case, in the first battle, I am out in the open and not in smoke 4.3km from one enemy Kongo and 5.3km from the other.  My detection warning is up, and has been for a bit, but nether ship is targeting me (I have Priority Target on this captain).  There is a Cleveland and a Kongo on my team further back and to my right.  There is a T-22 on my team that is almost as close as me, but just behind an island.  Just prior to this point in time, both BBs were, in fact, aiming at me, but they shifted focus and fired at the ships behind me.


 

In the second battle, I am, again, out in the open without smoke.  In the distance there is an enemy battleship in a fight with two of our battleships.  I am beyond my concealment range, but because I have been using my guns, My detection bloom is large enough to include, not just that BB, but two other enemies.  As before, the detection icon is warning me that I am visible, but I have no ships targeting me, and that icon has been up for some time.


In both cases, if they always prioritized DDs, that would not have been the case.  This is especially true in the latter example since I was the only DD on the team.  That is, I was not just the last surviving DD on my team, I was the only DD in the match from the beginning (obviously, not counting my doppelganger on the bot team).
 

Those are just two examples, but with almost 4,800 Coop battles, I can tell you without hesitation that this is far from uncommon.  I know a lot of people are convinced that bots do prioritize DDs over all else, but one of the reasons I prefer Coop over Randoms is that, if you understand how bots prioritize, you can manage aggro just like you can in an MMORPG.  DDs are no exception.  Yes, DDs get more than their "share" of focus, but this is not because they are DDs.  It is because DDs fall into the health and proximity calculations more frequently than other classes.


Edited by Sotaudi, 31 March 2017 - 10:48 PM.


IcyThor #26 Posted 30 March 2017 - 11:17 PM

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I moved up to Tier 3 and the bots surprised me me in the first few battles.  They maneuvered better and were more aggressive than Tier 1.  They do not fire artillery as much as players.  They like to engage me with artillery and while I am busy something torps me.  They definitely play better as a team.

ExploratorOne #27 Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:31 AM

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One thing I have noticed is that as long as I am not in a DD, if I turn away the bots stop firing at me in the lower tiers.  Often, they don't turn towards me or stop following.  I kite them frequently with that.  It is as if you become a lower priority if you are not being aggressive towards them.  Another thing I do in lower tiers is to head in a direction from where I want to set up at the very beginning of the match so that at least my counterpart commits to the direction using their RL/RPF; preferably an area where they will be very vulnerable  Then I will turn back towards our group so that they appear in a good spot to get shot up.

Lert #28 Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

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View PostIcyThor, on 30 March 2017 - 11:17 PM, said:

They definitely play better as a team.

 

Which is kinda sad really.

(Above stats not guaranteed accurate. I'm a supertester and test ships don't always register correctly)

 

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IcyThor #29 Posted 01 April 2017 - 05:49 PM

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I watched a team member drive his BB like it was a DD.  The bots caught him in a crossfire.  He did not last long.

sumplkrum #30 Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:56 PM

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View PostIcyThor, on 30 March 2017 - 11:17 PM, said:

I moved up to Tier 3 and the bots surprised me me in the first few battles.  They maneuvered better and were more aggressive than Tier 1.  They do not fire artillery as much as players.  They like to engage me with artillery and while I am busy something torps me.  They definitely play better as a team.

 

I noticed this as well.

Tier 1 bots were a push-over. ... But in a few games at tier III, the bots were mangling our noob teams.



IcyThor #31 Posted 10 April 2017 - 02:45 PM

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View Postsumplkrum, on 05 April 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

 

I noticed this as well.

Tier 1 bots were a push-over. ... But in a few games at tier III, the bots were mangling our noob teams.

 

After the last upgrade T1 bots are different.  I liked them for artillery practice but now they make me work harder to get easy shots.  I wonder if bots know the player history and adjust to our style?

AVR_Project #32 Posted 10 April 2017 - 04:15 PM

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Had all the bots chasing an Okhotnik into a corner until my CV was spotted.

They all turned their guns and started wailing at me.

CV has priority target over DD.  The difference is, their bot RD doesn't point to the CV.  Human RD does.


So much has been lost, so much forgotten. So much pain, so much blood. And for what? I wonder. The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between. But there is still time to seize that one last, fragile moment. To choose something better, to make a difference.  -- Babylon 5


sumplkrum #33 Posted 10 April 2017 - 04:39 PM

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View PostIcyThor, on 10 April 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

After the last upgrade T1 bots are different.  I liked them for artillery practice but now they make me work harder to get easy shots.  I wonder if bots know the player history and adjust to our style?

 

I think the tier 1 bots are pretty passive, but then when you get the tier 3 bots, they are suicidally aggressive.

The tier 3's are better than the new players at using their torps, and they get within range without any care for their own safety. ... The battleships will even ram you to death.
If you can set-up and hit them as they come at you, they're pretty easy ... but if the team tries to aggressively attack them, the greens usually lose-out and the remaining players end up outnumbered.



IcyThor #34 Posted 10 April 2017 - 05:14 PM

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View Postsumplkrum, on 10 April 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

 

I think the tier 1 bots are pretty passive, but then when you get the tier 3 bots, they are suicidally aggressive.

The tier 3's are better than the new players at using their torps, and they get within range without any care for their own safety. ... The battleships will even ram you to death.
If you can set-up and hit them as they come at you, they're pretty easy ... but if the team tries to aggressively attack them, the greens usually lose-out and the remaining players end up outnumbered.

 

A BB in T3 rammed me after I beached my ship on an island.  I had worn the BB down to low HP with HE and it killed itself to kill me.  I don't have any teammates yet and the bots love a ship the is solo.

ARandomClaymore #35 Posted 10 April 2017 - 05:39 PM

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Your (WarshipsToday) stats show that you skipped over the T2 US line at straight to the STL (St. Louis). It also shows that you have not progressed past T1 with the IJN line, and have not tried any other country. With the sheer number of games you have played in both the Erie & STL, you should have been able to move up a tier or branch out to other ship lines within the US tree. What skills do/does your commanders have? Are they spec'd to your play style? See where I'm going with this?


 

Are you considering other countries? What feedback are you looking for exactly?


 

Yeah, bots kill. They have gotten me a number of times, too: ramming, shooting, torps, fire, flooding, every which way possible.


Edited by ARandomClaymore, 10 April 2017 - 05:41 PM.


IcyThor #36 Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:21 PM

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View PostARandomClaymore, on 10 April 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

Your (WarshipsToday) stats show that you skipped over the T2 US line at straight to the STL (St. Louis). It also shows that you have not progressed past T1 with the IJN line, and have not tried any other country. With the sheer number of games you have played in both the Erie & STL, you should have been able to move up a tier or branch out to other ship lines within the US tree. What skills do/does your commanders have? Are they spec'd to your play style? See where I'm going with this?


 

Are you considering other countries? What feedback are you looking for exactly?


 

Yeah, bots kill. They have gotten me a number of times, too: ramming, shooting, torps, fire, flooding, every which way possible.

 

I am 69 and this is the first MMO game that I have ever played.  Its a big learning curve for me with WASD for one hand and mouse for the other.  I am slowly improving.  I don't want to move up another tier until I can consistently be in the top half in random battles in the St. Louis.  Each commander has Adrenaline Rush, Incoming Fire Alert & Priority Target. One commander will take the path to Radio Location and the other to Inertia Fuse for HE Shells.  Hopefully, I can move them to higher tier ships when I am ready.  It's not likely that I will play ships of nations other than USA.

Admiral_Thrawn_1 #37 Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:25 PM

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View PostIcyThor, on 18 April 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

 

I am 69 and this is the first MMO game that I have ever played.  Its a big learning curve for me with WASD for one hand and mouse for the other.  I am slowly improving.  I don't want to move up another tier until I can consistently be in the top half in random battles in the St. Louis.  Each commander has Adrenaline Rush, Incoming Fire Alert & Priority Target. One commander will take the path to Radio Location and the other to Inertia Fuse for HE Shells.  Hopefully, I can move them to higher tier ships when I am ready.  It's not likely that I will play ships of nations other than USA.

Congratulations on accepting the challenge of gaming like this since some of the players like me have grown up with at least some experience in WASD and even other types of game platoforms usually make use of keeping left hand busy controlling movement while right hand is typically doing auxiliary functions and weapons. Games like this have enough of a learning curve without experience in keyboard controls already.

 



Admiral_Thrawn_1 #38 Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:31 PM

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View PostAVR_Project, on 10 April 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Had all the bots chasing an Okhotnik into a corner until my CV was spotted.

They all turned their guns and started wailing at me.

CV has priority target over DD.  The difference is, their bot RD doesn't point to the CV.  Human RD does.

 

Computer controlled forces can be reasonably smart at times, but Wargaming bots are still not up to intelligence level I am used to in other games. Then again I aggressively sink the bots and the ones I feel are the greater threats get sunk first if I have a choice in the matter. But sounds like Ai and Humans feel sane way about CVs being the priority target to sink if the CV is nearby since you sink that it stops further air attacks except for 1 more attack sometimes if the planes just launched are set to auto attack a target just before CV is sunk.

bad_arcade_kitty #39 Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:31 AM

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the bots are crazy aggressive, they always do a yolo rush and if you can't stop it - you are likely done

 

the story time :3

i realized recently that i almost missed the round two test server rewards, so i went there and got 10 wins asap, since i had but like 2-3 hours, i had to do it in t8 coop (and still finished about ~15 minutes before the servers went down), the most memorable moments were to the end when in one game my team, mostly of bots too, couldn't stop their rush, my z-23 got caught by two cheating bot cruisers with a cheating bot cv sending planes to me (the bots know where you are precisely even when you aren't spotted) and got sunk, the game was lost a bit later. meantime i went to another game, this time i was in stealthy kiev, my team was evaporated again leaving only me vs 3 t9-10 cruisers and bb, i managed to sink 2 with torps and to win by cap because bots pursued me using the same cheat tactics - they knew where i was even though my concealment was 7.1 km, but i was like 42 stalinium knots of speed so it was to my advantage. another game, this time in z-23 who was unlocked from the "in battle" status after the previous loss. my team again couldn't stop their middle rush, but by some miracle (mostly because some of them shot at our badly positioned human player cv) i managed to 1 v 4 their dds, 2 kievs, akizuki and some other dd, kievs and the other dd were badly damaged and died to 150mm shells, akizuki was too slow to catch me after she set me to ~1500hp and i fled without shooting and then torped her, at that point we had only 2 human bb one of whom did fine but was overwhelmed and sunk with 2-3 frags a bit later and the second was yamato who was pretty far away. i went to their zone to cap or to kill their last cv, what was easier, and was repeatedly attacked by the bot cv, avoided torps but was hit with a bomb and set to 150hp. i turned away from their cv (150mm guns are a hot garbage when you have 10km range with no aft) and we won by cap (yamato even invited me to a div but i realized it only later, i don't recall it had happened to me in coop before). here i realized that if i lose but one game i can't get 10 wins in time and finished it with another one or two rounds with kiev... instead of testing 128mm guns on z-23 or playing another round or two with akizuki (i did fine with her but she is very bad to win games vs bots if their rush succeeds and you have to outrun them, she is also instantly targeted like any dd when she shoots, except that she is a sitting duck), you see, i have kiev on my main acc but not aki or z-23

 


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IcyThor #40 Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:38 PM

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View PostAdmiral_Thrawn_1, on 18 April 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

Congratulations on accepting the challenge of gaming like this since some of the players like me have grown up with at least some experience in WASD and even other types of game platoforms usually make use of keeping left hand busy controlling movement while right hand is typically doing auxiliary functions and weapons. Games like this have enough of a learning curve without experience in keyboard controls already.

 

 

I am having a lot of fun with the learning process and learning from making novice mistakes.  Strategy seems as important as maneuvering and gunnery skills.  1 on 1 I am able to hold my own.  When its 2 or more enemy targeting me, they see my stern at full speed and zig zag.  Bots and humans both seem to lose interest in a target running away.  When I am sunk early in a game I use the camera to follow a BB and have learned a lot about AP bouncing off the hull.  That taught me that my best chance of sinking a BB is using HE at long range to wear the BB down.  Thanks for your input.  .  .  .




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