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Should match making be switched to 1 tier up and 1 tier down?


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HazardDrake #21 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:33 AM

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Remember back when MM was 3 tiers?

 

Remember when talk of moving it to 2 tiers came up?

 

Remember how people said that scrubs would whine about needing to have 1 tier MM?

 

Too bad the OP wasn't around here for that...



dngrcnnn #22 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:35 AM

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+/-1 for one person is still +/-2 for someone else. If a tier 7 ship can only see 8 and 6, then the Tier 6 ship is seeing +2 in that game

 

So do you want them to make it a 7 can see 8 or 6, but it will only drop one way? Like it'll only drop 7-8 or 6-7 for a given game? I don't have a huge amount of faith that they can properly set up the MM that way. We still see games with 3 RU DDs against 3 actual DDs, and that seems like a bigger gameplay problem than tiers do, to me at least.



comtedumas #23 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:37 AM

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View PostTalonV, on 20 March 2017 - 01:25 AM, said:

Narrow it down, watch a whole heap of ships get the nerf hammer. Not the bat full up hammer. Cause in tanks last time they did a narrowing of the tiers, Multiple vehicles got rebalanced and or nerfed. Su-85 lost the 107, KV got split entirely into 2 separate tanks the KV-1 and KV2. SU-100 lost the top gun. SU-152 lost the BL10, few other tanks and TDs in that game got majorly changed.

 

Same would happen in ships, just you watch.

 

this isn't tanks, and the CEO said he made a mistake trying to make warship into tanks so that no longer a problem.  As a result, expect this artificial "angling" mess to go away.  

TalonV #24 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:42 AM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 19 March 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

 

this isn't tanks, and the CEO said he made a mistake trying to make warship into tanks so that no longer a problem.  As a result, expect this artificial "angling" mess to go away.  

 

Wouldn't matter, most ships are built so they can do damage way above their paygrade. That's gonna get toned down if you slide it to +1/-1. Trust me.

 

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comtedumas #25 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:45 AM

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View Postdngrcnnn, on 20 March 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

+/-1 for one person is still +/-2 for someone else. If a tier 7 ship can only see 8 and 6, then the Tier 6 ship is seeing +2 in that game

 

So do you want them to make it a 7 can see 8 or 6, but it will only drop one way? Like it'll only drop 7-8 or 6-7 for a given game? I don't have a huge amount of faith that they can properly set up the MM that way. We still see games with 3 RU DDs against 3 actual DDs, and that seems like a bigger gameplay problem than tiers do, to me at least.

Yes, you are right, so it should be +1 or -1 but not both.  



TalonV #26 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:49 AM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 19 March 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Yes, you are right, so it should be +1 or -1 but not both.  

 

Bout to say, unless you fix the restricted MM, still doesn't help tier 5 at all.

 

​This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. In war you

never want to fight fair. You want to sneak up behind

the enemy, and bash him over the head.


RivertheRoyal #27 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:52 AM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 19 March 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

View Postdngrcnnn, on 19 March 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

+/-1 for one person is still +/-2 for someone else. If a tier 7 ship can only see 8 and 6, then the Tier 6 ship is seeing +2 in that game

 

So do you want them to make it a 7 can see 8 or 6, but it will only drop one way? Like it'll only drop 7-8 or 6-7 for a given game? I don't have a huge amount of faith that they can properly set up the MM that way. We still see games with 3 RU DDs against 3 actual DDs, and that seems like a bigger gameplay problem than tiers do, to me at least.

Yes, you are right, so it should be +1 or -1 but not both.  

 

*Sigh*

That's not how it works.

+/-2 already is an or statement, meaning that a particular tiered ship will see opponents two tiers higher, or 2 tiers lower than themselves. They could also be the middle tier in a three tier match spread. Basically, it means that a +/-2 tier spread will only have three tiers present in it, while a +/-1 will have two. 

Here's the full matchmaking spread, as it stands now.

It should help visualize the whole thing. 

 

 


Edited by RivertheRoyal, 20 March 2017 - 01:52 AM.

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Hiroe #28 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:53 AM

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I think +/-1 would make the experience more consistently enjoyable so I'm all for it.

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Hiroe #29 Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:56 AM

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View PostHazardDrake, on 19 March 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

Remember back when MM was 3 tiers?

 

Remember when talk of moving it to 2 tiers came up?

 

Remember how people said that scrubs would whine about needing to have 1 tier MM?

 

Too bad the OP wasn't around here for that...

 

Blah, blah, blah. All of that's dumb and it doesn't matter. There is only one question that matters: would the experience be more enjoyable with +/-1?

Edited by Hiroe, 20 March 2017 - 02:00 AM.

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TalonV #30 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:02 AM

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View PostHiroe, on 19 March 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

 

Blah, blah, blah. All of that's dumb and it doesn't matter. There is only one question that matters: would the experience be more enjoyable with +/-1?

 

Not really. Great thing about being 2 tiers down, lot of HP of higher tier ships to farm which = more credits. Lot of times you see those games where someone goes tilt in a tier 5 or 6, I'll bet most times they were up tiered and just scored hit upon hit on higher tier ships.

 

You go to +1/-1, less HP and damage to farm between you and 11 other players. Gotta remember that.


 

​This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. In war you

never want to fight fair. You want to sneak up behind

the enemy, and bash him over the head.


RivertheRoyal #31 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:03 AM

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View PostTalonV, on 19 March 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

 

Not really. Great thing about being 2 tiers down, lot of HP of higher tier ships to farm which = more credits. Lot of times you see those games where someone goes tilt in a tier 5 or 6, I'll bet most times they were up tiered and just scored hit upon hit on higher tier ships.

 

You go to +1/-1, less HP and damage to farm between you and 11 other players. Gotta remember that.

 

Not to mention that being top-tier would be less enjoyable with fewer squishy targets. 
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TalonV #32 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:08 AM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 19 March 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

 

Not to mention that being top-tier would be less enjoyable with fewer squishy targets. 

 

Wouldn't be less, but it wouldn't be the chance to feel really big. Some days I just love being top tier in a Scharnhorst or Bismarck and watching some hapless cruiser go kaboom. Or hell being in say a tier 6 BB and completely face stomping a tier 8 DD or CA/CL.

 

Naa, +2 is where it's at. Sure it can suck being up tiered all the damn time like in tier 5 or 6, but man when you can score those rounds where you go tilt and really rack up some numbers, those games feel GOOD.


 

​This isn't dueling pistols at dawn. This is war. In war you

never want to fight fair. You want to sneak up behind

the enemy, and bash him over the head.


RivertheRoyal #33 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:10 AM

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View PostTalonV, on 19 March 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

Wouldn't be less, but it wouldn't be the chance to feel really big. Some days I just love being top tier in a Scharnhorst or Bismarck and watching some hapless cruiser go kaboom. Or hell being in say a tier 6 BB and completely face stomping a tier 8 DD or CA/CL.

 

Naa, +2 is where it's at. Sure it can suck being up tiered all the damn time like in tier 5 or 6, but man when you can score those rounds where you go tilt and really rack up some numbers, those games feel GOOD.

 

Kongo is my up-tiered machine. It feels fun stomping T7's in her. 

I mean, it's not like the guns and armor get all that much better in a two tier progression. 


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Hiroe #34 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:18 AM

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View PostTalonV, on 19 March 2017 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

Not really. Great thing about being 2 tiers down, lot of HP of higher tier ships to farm which = more credits. Lot of times you see those games where someone goes tilt in a tier 5 or 6, I'll bet most times they were up tiered and just scored hit upon hit on higher tier ships.

 

You go to +1/-1, less HP and damage to farm between you and 11 other players. Gotta remember that.

 

Sure, the top five percent of players who are very skilled get to, um, "farm more damage" or whatever (odd, since winning should be the priority). For everyone else, +/-1 would be much more consistently enjoyable.

 

View PostRivertheRoyal, on 19 March 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

 

Not to mention that being top-tier would be less enjoyable with fewer squishy targets. 

 

That's only one side of the coin. It's not pleasant for normal players to be so squishy that they get annihilated after one or two mistakes.

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Hiroe #35 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:19 AM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 19 March 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

 

Kongo is my up-tiered machine. It feels fun stomping T7's in her. 

I mean, it's not like the guns and armor get all that much better in a two tier progression. 

 

That's not the common experience. Normal players just get wrecked and that's not exactly fun for them.

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_RC1138 #36 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:21 AM

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They should. To those bringing up queue times: would you rather have long queue times for +-1 MM or longer queue times because the game population leaves with the next big release season because people get fed up and bored with frustration? Which serves the time and monetary investment you've put in the game.

 

Let me put this another way: forgetting oh God-like skilled players that YOU are, the shitters, the potatoes you hate so much, the one's you *rely* on to boost up play populations, do you think those players will leave if MM gets switched to +-1? Or do you think they will leave because they are tired of trying to get their first T7 because the T6 glutch is as harsh as it is?

 

(btw, he idea that longer queue times happens may be apocryphal, neither you, nor I knows that for sure since it's NEVER been tried for 1-10, show me data that it increase queue times with our given Server Pop, or stfu)


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ArIskandir #37 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:22 AM

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View PostHiroe, on 19 March 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

 

Sure, the top five percent of players who are very skilled get to, um, "farm more damage" or whatever (odd, since winning should be the priority). For everyone else, +/-1 would be much more consistently enjoyable.

 

 

That's only one side of the coin. It's not pleasant for normal players to be so squishy that they get annihilated after one or two mistakes.

 

View PostHiroe, on 19 March 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

 

That's not the common experience. Normal players just get wrecked and that's not exactly fun for them.

 

Hey, don't tell me you support this "socialist" agenda of equality for the masses when it suits your interest... so much for the far right...

Skpstr #38 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:23 AM

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View Postcomtedumas, on 20 March 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

 

I had a match the other day, was me in a Texas, the other side had a Texas, and everybody else was Tier VII.  I couldn't even get in range to shoot at anyone.  It wasn't fair to me or the other Texas.  Seems you are getting a bunch of people who want to claim "elite" status as long as they can pick on lesser Tiers to bolster their claim.

 

To be fair, it's not a Tier thing so much as a ship thing. As far as Texas/New York, it's the only T5 BB that doesn't uptier well.

 

Really though, I don't care one way or the other.

 

I do wonder how may of the players who complain about the +/-2 MM realised that they'd never be 2 tiers down, but never 2 up either. I admit I like being a bully, put I'm perfectly willing to take my share of turns at being the punching bag.


Edited by Skpstr, 20 March 2017 - 02:26 AM.

 


CRAZY8S_ #39 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:25 AM

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All of this brings me back to the tier 10 divisions that had a tier 1 ERIE on their team and yea that's why they did the hole number change...  Not only that but because people kept complaint about the "Fail Divisions".

Edited by CRAZY8S_, 20 March 2017 - 02:26 AM.


crzyhawk #40 Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:29 AM

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If you've ever used that mod to see what the teams stats are, +/-1 looks pretty good.  There are some pretty bad players in this game, and forcing them to fight two tiers down in my eyes, is a bad idea.  You can talk challenge and all you want, the fact is, there is a high level of churn in this game, and generally a low skill level.  Catering to the "good" players doesn't seem to make sense in the long term.





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