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Do British Cruisers Make Other Lines Pale in Comparison?

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Poll: Do British Cruisers Make Other Cruisers Pale in Comparison (82 members have cast votes)

Do British Cruisers Take the Fun Out of Playing Other Cruiser Lines

  1. Yes (10 votes [12.20%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.20%

  2. No (64 votes [78.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.05%

  3. What's a cruiser? (1 vote [1.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.22%

  4. I don't care, but I want BACON (7 votes [8.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.54%

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Peacemaker100 #21 Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:03 AM

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Agreed on the fact that they eat dmg like mad, but I've yet to see people shoot my smoke accurately, even in T10 games.  I also usually focus on capping the lone cap or ambushing lone dds.  It also doesn't matter that literally anything else can pen/cit you.  Aside from facing down a Yammy, me rushing a lone ship coming towards me works every time.  This includes bbs.  I wait for them to shoot, then count the seconds to their reload, time my turn, and torp them.  3 torp hits from an Edinburgh is plenty for crippling a bb, if not taking it down, cuz I'll have been poring AP into their sides long before then.  If it's a cruiser, I usually open the distance a bit (cuz I don't wanna get torped).  Unlike bbs, I've never seen a Zao or Hindy shoot AP at my rear.  I'm either too far way for it to pen effectively or so close that I may as well Banzai them.  Worst comes to worst, the T8 and the T10 both go down.

 

Having had experience with USN dds up to Fletcher, RN CLs handle like a charm.  The only difference between an Edin and a Fletcher is that one is slightly slower, is a slightly bigger target, and has a citadel.  Other than that, they play pretty much the same.  Only one can single-handedly force dds out of cap just by being detected.  That one can also be lit up by radar and have a chance of fleeing/rushing/even killing the radar ship.  Also no longer at a huge disadvantage at close range vs other cruisers.  I play Edin as a support role, charging cap nearest me, even if unsupported.  This is with the condition that there is some form of GOOD cover in/sticking into the cap.  This is why I prefer spawning C on Mountain Range rather than A or B.  So many islands to play with, and short of a concentrated force of multiple ships, I can hold it trivially, whereas any other ship would be hard pressed to do so.  Ofc, this also leads to many wthsituations, but usually I come out of those alive, and even if I die, I manage to take at least 1 ship with me.

 

Edinburgh, especially with her super heal, makes me want to say this:

You can cit me from the front, but can you do it twice or thrice at once?  You can nuke me, but can you obliterate me?  You can find me, but can you catch me?

 

RN CLs are the guards that kill off the other assassins.  Then they do what they're best at: melting everything with dakka.  


Tsunderes:   Yamato   Fuso   Zao   Atago   Takao

Yanderes:   Okhotnik   Gneisenau   Clemson 
Danderes:   Edinburgh   Tashkent   Minotaur

The rest of the cast: Black Swan Mikasa V-170 Zuiho Schors North Carolina Yorck Graf Spee Fredrich der Grosser ARP Myoko Haguro Ashigara Nachi Kongo Hiei Kirishima Haruna


crzyhawk #22 Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:49 AM

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When smoke and smoke firing get nerfed (and I think it's only a matter of time), RN cruisers are going to be hurting.


MrDeaf #23 Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:53 AM

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Zao will change your opinion.

Those cheat shells decimate DDs.


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Peacemaker100 #24 Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:34 AM

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View PostMrDeaf, on 15 March 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

Zao will change your opinion.

Those cheat shells decimate DDs.

 

They better hit hard then.  It's annoying how an Ibuki hits a dd for 5k with a 15 sec reload while Edin can hit the same dd for 6k and 7.5 sec reload.  Part of the reason why RN CLs are so fun.  They annihilate dds.  Ofc, I'm still grinding Ibuki for Zao cuz Zao.  I want the ultimate flamethrower, and I still hope for a nice old fashioned cruiser brawl at high tiers.  Doesn't happen often, but it's insanely fun when it does.

 

View Postcrzyhawk, on 15 March 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

When smoke and smoke firing get nerfed (and I think it's only a matter of time), RN cruisers are going to be hurting.

 

Where did you hear about this?  Would like to know the source, cuz if they do that, they'd anger a huge portion of the playerbase.  And not the RN playerbase.  Every Kutuzov player and his Fletcher mate are gonna want their money and time back.

 

Upcoming stealth fire nerf is different, if you meant that instead.  It happens at ranges to great for the ship to effectively use them.  USN dds get horrible arcs outside of 9 km, and the stealth fire range is 9.6 min last I checked.  Russian dds can't stealthfire, unless you want to give up BFT + 1 pt for questionable concealment (stealthfire range is 12 or so km, which is well within Tash's firing range.  But at that range, you can speed tank so why?).  IJN dds are torp based anyways.  And as for cruisers, I've only occasionally used stealth fire (when I was so badly dmged a shell or 2 could end me) and only then on Ibuki since it actually has a usable range.  I expect Zao to be the same.  Greater range is what matters, not the stealth firing ability it gives you.  And ofc, why would you want to even try staying at that range in cruisers?  You're giving up so much free dmg.  On the flip side, stealth firing ships have little to no impact on my gameplay.  Invisifiring fletcher is annoying, but ultimately, it's only a few pens + a few tens of shatters, and that's assuming the guy has good aim.  If I maneuver even a little, he's out of luck.  And this tells me, dd in that area.  Move to different base of operations.  Then I continue whatever I'm doing at the time, be it tanking, nuking, melting, or something else.  Contrast with Khab firing at greater range with more shots on target and better pen.  Plus harder to hit cuz shells take so long to reach target he just pushes the rudder a little and the salvo goes right over.  However, I'm in support of not removing stealth fire for a different reason.  If Fletcher's can't pew pew anymore, what are they gonna do?  I don't want more torps in the water.  I'll take a pew pewing Fletcher giving away his position over a silent Fletcher.  One is infinitely more deadly than the other, and I'm sure you can guess which is which.


Edited by Peacemaker100, 16 March 2017 - 07:34 AM.

Tsunderes:   Yamato   Fuso   Zao   Atago   Takao

Yanderes:   Okhotnik   Gneisenau   Clemson 
Danderes:   Edinburgh   Tashkent   Minotaur

The rest of the cast: Black Swan Mikasa V-170 Zuiho Schors North Carolina Yorck Graf Spee Fredrich der Grosser ARP Myoko Haguro Ashigara Nachi Kongo Hiei Kirishima Haruna


Sethanas #25 Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:10 PM

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View PostPeacemaker100, on 16 March 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

You're giving up so much free dmg.  On the flip side, stealth firing ships have little to no impact on my gameplay.  Invisifiring fletcher is annoying, but ultimately, it's only a few pens + a few tens of shatters, and that's assuming the guy has good aim.  If I maneuver even a little, he's out of luck.  And this tells me, dd in that area.  Move to different base of operations.  Then I continue whatever I'm doing at the time, be it tanking, nuking, melting, or something else.  Contrast with Khab firing at greater range with more shots on target and better pen.  Plus harder to hit cuz shells take so long to reach target he just pushes the rudder a little and the salvo goes right over.  However, I'm in support of not removing stealth fire for a different reason.  If Fletcher's can't pew pew anymore, what are they gonna do?  I don't want more torps in the water.  I'll take a pew pewing Fletcher giving away his position over a silent Fletcher.  One is infinitely more deadly than the other, and I'm sure you can guess which is which.

 

Really I dont think that stealth firing itself is the problem, like you said its easy enough to deal with, however the odd fire or 6 from a stealthed target can definitely be a game changer. That said when you can have people sit in smoke and pew pew for days you gotta wonder why they're taking such a large interest in stealth firing, its not really any different from shooting over islands or firing out of smoke, if anything the added distance makes it less effective.

Here is my fix, ANYTHING firing at you in line of sight AND within YOUR base concealment range gets lit.

This has 2 advantages,

1 it doesn't necessarily ruin stealth firing for everyone
2 If you are being stealth fired upon you can simply go dark unless you are spotted by something else (if you are spotted by something else, the stealth fire coming at you is no worse than a ship in smoke.)

If you are looking for a "historical" reason for this to work.... Generally ships that are taller are easier to spot, in return the lookouts would probably be higher off the sea level, ergo better vision.

Peacemaker100 #26 Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:07 PM

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View PostSethanas, on 16 March 2017 - 04:10 AM, said:

 

Really I dont think that stealth firing itself is the problem, like you said its easy enough to deal with, however the odd fire or 6 from a stealthed target can definitely be a game changer. That said when you can have people sit in smoke and pew pew for days you gotta wonder why they're taking such a large interest in stealth firing, its not really any different from shooting over islands or firing out of smoke, if anything the added distance makes it less effective.

Here is my fix, ANYTHING firing at you in line of sight AND within YOUR base concealment range gets lit.

This has 2 advantages,

1 it doesn't necessarily ruin stealth firing for everyone
2 If you are being stealth fired upon you can simply go dark unless you are spotted by something else (if you are spotted by something else, the stealth fire coming at you is no worse than a ship in smoke.)

If you are looking for a "historical" reason for this to work.... Generally ships that are taller are easier to spot, in return the lookouts would probably be higher off the sea level, ergo better vision.

 

Not a bad idea.  I like the idea of using base concealment as the marker.  Take an upboat

Tsunderes:   Yamato   Fuso   Zao   Atago   Takao

Yanderes:   Okhotnik   Gneisenau   Clemson 
Danderes:   Edinburgh   Tashkent   Minotaur

The rest of the cast: Black Swan Mikasa V-170 Zuiho Schors North Carolina Yorck Graf Spee Fredrich der Grosser ARP Myoko Haguro Ashigara Nachi Kongo Hiei Kirishima Haruna


Rommel603 #27 Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:51 PM

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Just as a little note to what your saying about the other cruiser lines, honestly I suggest grinding through the Yorck to the Admiral Hipper. The Yorck is the oddball of the bunch due to being better at being a long-range HE artillery piece (ala Cleveland/Atlanta/other high-arcing cruisers), whereas the main playstyles the German cruisers are known for are high AP damage with either heavy firepower in the rear (Konigsberg, Nurnberg, and Roon) or with balanced firepower all around (Admiral Hipper/Eugen, Hindenburg).

 

I'm still grinding through the Yorck myself, but honestly I tend to prefer the Axis lines (IJN/DKM) for their playstyles, since they just seem more...versatile. They suck in terms of rate of fire, but in terms of racking up damage and being able to be decent at taking on all the different types of surface vessels in the game, I get more consistency out of them than the USN/Soviet/RN lines.


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Peacemaker100 #28 Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:46 PM

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View PostRommel603, on 16 March 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

Just as a little note to what your saying about the other cruiser lines, honestly I suggest grinding through the Yorck to the Admiral Hipper. The Yorck is the oddball of the bunch due to being better at being a long-range HE artillery piece (ala Cleveland/Atlanta/other high-arcing cruisers), whereas the main playstyles the German cruisers are known for are high AP damage with either heavy firepower in the rear (Konigsberg, Nurnberg, and Roon) or with balanced firepower all around (Admiral Hipper/Eugen, Hindenburg).

 

I'm still grinding through the Yorck myself, but honestly I tend to prefer the Axis lines (IJN/DKM) for their playstyles, since they just seem more...versatile. They suck in terms of rate of fire, but in terms of racking up damage and being able to be decent at taking on all the different types of surface vessels in the game, I get more consistency out of them than the USN/Soviet/RN lines.

 

Hipper better be better than Yorck at close in stuff then.  I have enough long range arty.  Don't need more.  Lack of guns really hurts Yorck though.  The loss of 2 shells doesn't seem like much, but it actually hurts.  And her rof isn't that great to begin with.  Not interested in doing more HE.  I want good AP that'll pen from 15 km lol.  I'll use HE if I have to, but really?  An HE ship on a line that's known for POOR HE?  That's a little sad.  Not to say that I'm not doing good in her.  Not too hard to rack up 1.5-2 times her hp.  It's just boring.  Set a fire.  Wait for bb to put it out.  Set another fire for full duration.  IJN ships do that 10x better, with a guaranteed fire every salvo.  Tash does the same, only it's tickle them till they sneeze beer into the fire.  Then they're up in flames.  Don't need more HE spammers.  I want a heavy cruiser that's an AP monster.

Tsunderes:   Yamato   Fuso   Zao   Atago   Takao

Yanderes:   Okhotnik   Gneisenau   Clemson 
Danderes:   Edinburgh   Tashkent   Minotaur

The rest of the cast: Black Swan Mikasa V-170 Zuiho Schors North Carolina Yorck Graf Spee Fredrich der Grosser ARP Myoko Haguro Ashigara Nachi Kongo Hiei Kirishima Haruna


MrDeaf #29 Posted 16 March 2017 - 08:52 PM

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View PostPeacemaker100, on 16 March 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

 

They better hit hard then.  It's annoying how an Ibuki hits a dd for 5k with a 15 sec reload while Edin can hit the same dd for 6k and 7.5 sec reload.  Part of the reason why RN CLs are so fun.  They annihilate dds.  Ofc, I'm still grinding Ibuki for Zao cuz Zao.  I want the ultimate flamethrower, and I still hope for a nice old fashioned cruiser brawl at high tiers.  Doesn't happen often, but it's insanely fun when it does.

 

 

6k~9k HE salvos against everything, even Khab.

The best part is, you get down to 9.8km concealment, which is a very difficult range for for those DDs to react to your shells.

 

Ibuki shoots limp and floppy shells in comparison, which forces it to only shoot at bigger ships.


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Sethanas #30 Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:05 PM

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View PostPeacemaker100, on 16 March 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

Hipper better be better than Yorck at close in stuff then.

 

Hipper is just plain better, all round.

The AP shells on the hipper can be very effective even at range.

Peacemaker100 #31 Posted 17 March 2017 - 02:24 AM

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View PostMrDeaf, on 16 March 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

6k~9k HE salvos against everything, even Khab.

The best part is, you get down to 9.8km concealment, which is a very difficult range for for those DDs to react to your shells.

 

Ibuki shoots limp and floppy shells in comparison, which forces it to only shoot at bigger ships.

 

Wow.  That's pretty impressive.  Maybe I should just fxp Yorck?  :trollface:

 

View PostSethanas, on 16 March 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

Hipper is just plain better, all round.

The AP shells on the hipper can be very effective even at range.

 

What range?  Is it effective up to 15km?

Tsunderes:   Yamato   Fuso   Zao   Atago   Takao

Yanderes:   Okhotnik   Gneisenau   Clemson 
Danderes:   Edinburgh   Tashkent   Minotaur

The rest of the cast: Black Swan Mikasa V-170 Zuiho Schors North Carolina Yorck Graf Spee Fredrich der Grosser ARP Myoko Haguro Ashigara Nachi Kongo Hiei Kirishima Haruna


HazeGrayUnderway #32 Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:22 AM

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Not too fond of German Cruiser AP.  Sure they have higher AP damage values but they bounce and non-pen quite a bit.  You end up using HE far too much because their AP is unreliable.

crzyhawk #33 Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:12 AM

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View PostPeacemaker100, on 16 March 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

 

They better hit hard then.  It's annoying how an Ibuki hits a dd for 5k with a 15 sec reload while Edin can hit the same dd for 6k and 7.5 sec reload.  Part of the reason why RN CLs are so fun.  They annihilate dds.  Ofc, I'm still grinding Ibuki for Zao cuz Zao.  I want the ultimate flamethrower, and I still hope for a nice old fashioned cruiser brawl at high tiers.  Doesn't happen often, but it's insanely fun when it does.

 

 

Where did you hear about this?  Would like to know the source, cuz if they do that, they'd anger a huge portion of the playerbase.  And not the RN playerbase.  Every Kutuzov player and his Fletcher mate are gonna want their money and time back.

 

Upcoming stealth fire nerf is different, if you meant that instead.  It happens at ranges to great for the ship to effectively use them.  USN dds get horrible arcs outside of 9 km, and the stealth fire range is 9.6 min last I checked.  Russian dds can't stealthfire, unless you want to give up BFT + 1 pt for questionable concealment (stealthfire range is 12 or so km, which is well within Tash's firing range.  But at that range, you can speed tank so why?).  IJN dds are torp based anyways.  And as for cruisers, I've only occasionally used stealth fire (when I was so badly dmged a shell or 2 could end me) and only then on Ibuki since it actually has a usable range.  I expect Zao to be the same.  Greater range is what matters, not the stealth firing ability it gives you.  And ofc, why would you want to even try staying at that range in cruisers?  You're giving up so much free dmg.  On the flip side, stealth firing ships have little to no impact on my gameplay.  Invisifiring fletcher is annoying, but ultimately, it's only a few pens + a few tens of shatters, and that's assuming the guy has good aim.  If I maneuver even a little, he's out of luck.  And this tells me, dd in that area.  Move to different base of operations.  Then I continue whatever I'm doing at the time, be it tanking, nuking, melting, or something else.  Contrast with Khab firing at greater range with more shots on target and better pen.  Plus harder to hit cuz shells take so long to reach target he just pushes the rudder a little and the salvo goes right over.  However, I'm in support of not removing stealth fire for a different reason.  If Fletcher's can't pew pew anymore, what are they gonna do?  I don't want more torps in the water.  I'll take a pew pewing Fletcher giving away his position over a silent Fletcher.  One is infinitely more deadly than the other, and I'm sure you can guess which is which.

 

My source is gut feeling.


vonluckner #34 Posted 17 March 2017 - 06:17 AM

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If anything I think the Minotaur made me appreciate my DM more. DM was my first 10 and I was always frustrated playing it. It was really hard to hit things at long range, and trying to push up close was a 50/50 shot between killing everything and dying pathetically. So I shelved it for a long time.

 

Minotaur has similar shell velocity and arcs, and being able to sit (relatively) safe in smoke was a good way to practice leading shots. Going back to the DM I really like it. Many of the same characteristics that make it exciting (high DPM), but with a different survival strategy trading speed and concealment for armor.

 

Sometimes Minotaur feels kind of gimmicky. While I do well, I feel like much of that is attributed to the fact that I'm playing against people that are just not that great. It's extremely rare that I ever have problems dealing with enemy Minotaurs (as anything), vs. how painful it can be to fight a good Moskva/Zao. When I do well in the DM, it feels like I won because I played well, rather than because the enemy played badly, which brings more satisfaction.

 

British line as a whole is probably the best cruiser line past tier 6, but the Minotaur and T10 cruiser balance keeps it in check for me.



 


BearlyHereBear #35 Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:16 AM

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MrDeaf #36 Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:14 PM

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View PostPeacemaker100, on 16 March 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

 

Wow.  That's pretty impressive.  Maybe I should just fxp Yorck?  :trollface:

 

 

What range?  Is it effective up to 15km?

 

the AP on Hipper, Roon and Hindenburger is light weight, so they have poor armor penetration, but retain this for a good distance.

Against cruisers, the AP will citadel out to, around, 14km.

Against BBs, the AP simply doesn't citadel most things, unless you get a lucky shot. They do, however, cause penetration damage against everything, if you aim a bit high. With Hindenburger, if you aim at a broadside BB where their 32mm~150mm ish armor is, and you get a 12/12 penetration hit, you can cause up to 23,600dmg per salvo.

 

This is in comparison to Moskva, Zao and DM AP that have good penetration and will citadel a BB up close.


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centarina #37 Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:04 PM

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I find UK CL to be one dimensional .    

IJN: Mikasa,  Ichizuchi, Fuso, Amagi, Katori, kuma, Zao, Tachibana, KamikazeR, Shinonome, Shiratsuyu, Akizuki, Yugumo PA Anshan  

             VFM: Aurora,Svietlana,  Murmansk, Budyonny, Chapayev, D.Donskoi, Ognevoi, Kiev, Tashkent, Udaloi, Khab  FRDougay T, Le Gal

USN:   New York, North Carolina,Phoenix,  Marblehead,  Indianapolis, Baltimore,  Farragut, Sims,Benson,Fletcher, Bogue    RN Leander, Edinburgh   

KM:  Konig Albert, Bayern, Graf Spee, Gneisenau, Bismarck, FDG, Emden, Karlsruhe  , Roon, Lib Maas         ARP: Kongo, Myoko, Haruna, Kirishima, Ashigara, Hiei, Haguro,  Nachi, Takao

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HazeGrayUnderway #38 Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:31 PM

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View Postcentarina, on 20 March 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

I find UK CL to be one dimensional .    

 

It's a very good line but it has some very specific demands to succeed.  They're great but IMO, they are the worst line of Cruisers if you are ever alone or are stuck in a 1vs1 and you didn't do an ambush.

 

The great limitation for RN CLs and their smoke advantage is that not only is the patch of smoke small it's easy to torp the s--t out of.  The other issue is that the RN CL needs to have a buddy around to spot while it's in smoke.  With no spotting, the RN CL is deaf, blind, as well as dumb inside smoke.  This compounds the problem of an RN CL in a 1vs1 fight or if fighting alone.  No other Cruiser line is limited in these kinds of engagements, not even the laughable USN Cruisers.  They at least got guns to instantly punish another Cruiser, not even Pensacola folds as fast as an RN CL.






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