Jump to content


Clan and non-clan members - time to separate them

clan privateers

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

Herr_Reitz #1 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:07 AM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 5,371
  • Member since:
    08-18-2014

Independent non-aligned members - time to call ourselves privateers. We can't call ourselves mercenaries because that option no longer exists. Pirates belong to those having the JR flag. Maybe privateer works? 

 

I don't know about other non-clan members, but the mere nature of clans using TS or other such chat channels, having their own 2 or 3 person divisions with their own "training objectives" is getting old... one of them being use their non-clan members as meat shields.

 

I have good games, I have bad games. Most of us fall into that category. More than a casual player but not wanting to be a clan member... that's most of us I suppose. 

 

Perhaps you have seen the increase of insults, obscenities and pure anger being levied at non-clan players? Funny thing is I don't see clan to clan insults, just clans insulting non-clan members. Maybe I miss it? I dunno. 

 

You, WoWS/WG... you NEED to implement some type of clan wars to move those players into their own little sea, let them name call and fight each other, perhaps exclusively - have you considered it? Making clan membership an either/or choice. Join a clan, no more random battles for that account. Not in a clan? No battles in clan waters. 

 

Is something like this possible? So you essentially have three groups of players - coop, random and clan.  Or is our player base too small?

 

tia fyc 



pmgaudio #2 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:14 AM

    Vice Admiral

  • Members

  • 8,364
  • Member since:
    05-30-2013

if WG (Government) wants to hire me,,,, so be it....

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Privateer




 “Leave the gun....
Take the Cannoli”
  __Clemenza

 

:child:


KyourakuShunsui #3 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:24 AM

    Ensign

  • Beta Testers

  • 1,073
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

Player base is too small, and there is no reason to exclude clans from randoms. I see plenty of non-clan people insulting clan people. It happens all the time.

 

 



pmgaudio #4 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:30 AM

    Vice Admiral

  • Members

  • 8,364
  • Member since:
    05-30-2013

View PostKyourakuShunsui, on 15 March 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

Player base is too small, and there is no reason to exclude clans from randoms. I see plenty of non-clan people insulting clan people. It happens all the time.

 

 

 

had my first battle today and a R__C clan member was there... OH the days of WOT ..... and those guys.... I though I have seen (even been sometimes) the most toxicity in the game... reminded me of the good ole WOT days.... no WONDER they have a horrible rep..... as do some clans....
it seems that a reputation will follow you everywhere, every game... and it sucks for some people .... and some clans... I know a LOT of old time WOT players trying to get past a reputation a clan gave them... or in some cases visa versa...(not mentioning names)....
But the game play has not changed.. sometimes it is more challenging, there are a lot of three man DIV with clan-mates..I feel more challenged by them  and it makes the game more fun sometimes... but Elitism..... it sucks...



 “Leave the gun....
Take the Cannoli”
  __Clemenza

 

:child:


Zim_Xero #5 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:32 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Members

  • 597
  • Member since:
    04-13-2016
My WR is only 49%.  I does make me feel better knowing that i did that with a lot of experimental games and screwing around.  Also I've never teamed up or divisioned.  My point is, if you want stats.. you should division.  Otherwise take pride in who you are and play with all.

Tier V -   Konig   Kongo   Furutaka   Zuiho   Texas   Marbelhead   Okhotnik   Kamikaze   

Tier VI -  Budyonny   Arizona   Anshan   Leander   Dunkerque   Graf Spee

Tier VII - Gneisenau   Saipan   Leningrad   Scharnhorst   Atlanta   Maass   Shiratsuyu   Belfast   Fiji   Blyskawica 

Tier VIII+ - Atago   Udaloi   Z-46   Shokaku   Khabarovsk   Alabama   Tirpitz


EricKilla #6 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:39 AM

    Petty Officer

  • Beta Testers
  • In AlfaTesters

  • 95
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

I half agree, half disagree with your post.

 

As a clan leader, I would absolutely love getting clan wars in the game. It would be a tremendous amount of fun to be able to go head to head against other clans. Especially given that Team Battles haven't been around for like a year.

 

That said, restricting people's access to a huge part of the game just because they're in clans (which serve to be little more than a tag and a chat room at this point) is absurd. It would do these two things: Royally piss off clan players (of which a number of which participate in the SuperTest program, are community contributors, streamers, etc, who would be outspoken against such a change) and kill the clan system altogether (something that was requested since closed alpha). It'd also result in a massive hemorrhaging of players from World of Warships, because who wants to play a game where partaking in a feature provided in the game denies you access to arguably the largest game mode of the game. 

 

People insulted each-other before clans were implemented in the game, and people insult each-other now. One does not need a clan tag to be a toxic in chat, they merely need a keyboard. 

 

Lastly, clan players play solo, or what would we do when we don't have a full team on? Just not play? I'd rather not be forced into a situation like that.

 

I think it would be wiser to instead request a better report system for toxic chat, including the ability to report specific messages as disrespectful, as opposed to just a player, and a better filtering system.

 

 



Landing_Skipper #7 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:40 AM

    Lieutenant Junior Grade

  • Members

  • 1,464
  • Member since:
    02-26-2016

Depends on the clan. 

 

I've been insulted and targeted by members of other clans.  There have been a few battles where members of the same clan are on both teams and it seems like they (a) are reluctant to sink each other, and/or (b) agree at some point which team should win - usually the one with the most clan members on it.  Either of those is strictly forbidden in my clan, and that's the exception not the norm.  Also, hostile chat towards anyone - clan or not - is unacceptable.  And it never occurred to me to use non-clan members as "meat shields".  I've certainly seen plenty of non-clan divisions do exactly that though.

 

I ran into a friendly clan mate on the opposing team last night in Random battles.  We greeted each other before the battle started.  I said "sorry" right after I sank him, but he knew that's what would happen and would gladly have sunk me if the positions were reversed.  Much like my encounter with LIttle White Mouse over the weekend in her Alabama.  Friendly greetings before battle, then she sank me despite my best efforts to do the same to her.

 

I do understand the concern when a clan mass-drops and ends up with 4-6 players per side, all presumably on TeamSpeak.  How the battle goes depends on the clan.


"Plan to be wrong about something." PRR (he knows who he is)

1SneakyDevil #8 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:43 AM

    Ensign

  • Members

  • 1,070
  • Member since:
    07-31-2015

OP makes lots of generalizations about clans. Most are off base.

 

Ability to coordinate - WG implemented a similar feature in game if you enable it.

Meat shields - sorry you do that to yourself by not having situational awareness.

Toxicity - you must be blind if you are claiming that non-tagged players are pleasant in chat.

 

Yes some clans go out of their way to be pricks in game or act elitist but most do not. Additionally, if you have some experienced clan players in a division maybe you should observe their play and see what they do differently than your game play. I've learned a great deal by working with other divisions whether I'm in a division or not.

 

Finally, if you put clans into a separate grouping how long are you willing to wait for matches as you will take a decent amount of the player base out of the general server. Whether you understand it or not but there are many clan members without tags due to the current 30 members maximum per clan. So you may be playing right next to a clan member without even knowing it.

 



Admiral_Thrawn_1 #9 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:49 AM

    Lieutenant Junior Grade

  • Members

  • 1,267
  • Member since:
    02-27-2017

View PostHerr_Reitz, on 15 March 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

 

I don't know about other non-clan members, but the mere nature of clans using TS or other such chat channels, having their own 2 or 3 person divisions with their own "training objectives" is getting old... one of them being use their non-clan members as meat shields.

 

 

If WOWs is anything like World of Tanks Blitz you can't always trust that players will even fight at all and if they have no clan tags then you have no way to judge their skill level so if you are a good player you must quite unfortunately assume that only purpose some players can serve is as meat shield to spot and distract enemy while you try to stay alive and do as much damage as possible to the enemy in the hopes of winning the battle.


Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1, 15 March 2017 - 02:13 AM.


ckupf #10 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:51 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Members

  • 1,895
  • Member since:
    07-31-2015

Implementing clan wars makes sense.

 

Excluding clan members from randoms would be idiotic and non-sensical. It would drop the population tremendously, it would destroy the point of clans, it would be bad for me as someone who isn't in a clan too. Some of my friends I play with are in clans. I have not noticed a problem with clan players behaving any differently than other players in game. When players are divisioned I assume they are in voice chat. That's how the game works. 

 

Your suggestion makes it so that players who are more involved in the game lose basically the entire game.

 

The type of toxicity you describe is almost absent from this game, perhaps you are confusing this with WoT?

 

Why should WG split the game? Why should they split the player base? This makes zero sense. I'm sorry if you have had negative interactions with a couple individuals, but this is not gonna happen since this suggestion would destroy the game.



Macabe #11 Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:54 AM

    Fleet Admiral

  • Supertest Coordinator
  • Members
    Alpha Tester
    In AlfaTesters
    Beta Testers
    Supertester

  • 13,314
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012
Clan wars wouldnt stop it. Anything that would prevent it isn't realistically possible and would be a bad business decision as a company purposely alienating a group of players isnt going to go well.

Fleet of Fog Commander

Supremacy League Admin and Head Referee

Self-Proclaimed Forum Mascot


Cruiser_TakaoKai #12 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:10 AM

    Seaman

  • Members

  • 20
  • Member since:
    05-17-2016

View PostHerr_Reitz, on 15 March 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

Independent non-aligned members - time to call ourselves privateers. We can't call ourselves mercenaries because that option no longer exists. Pirates belong to those having the JR flag. Maybe privateer works? 

 

I don't know about other non-clan members, but the mere nature of clans using TS or other such chat channels, having their own 2 or 3 person divisions with their own "training objectives" is getting old... one of them being use their non-clan members as meat shields.

 

I have good games, I have bad games. Most of us fall into that category. More than a casual player but not wanting to be a clan member... that's most of us I suppose. 

 

Perhaps you have seen the increase of insults, obscenities and pure anger being levied at non-clan players? Funny thing is I don't see clan to clan insults, just clans insulting non-clan members. Maybe I miss it? I dunno. 

 

You, WoWS/WG... you NEED to implement some type of clan wars to move those players into their own little sea, let them name call and fight each other, perhaps exclusively - have you considered it? Making clan membership an either/or choice. Join a clan, no more random battles for that account. Not in a clan? No battles in clan waters. 

 

Is something like this possible? So you essentially have three groups of players - coop, random and clan.  Or is our player base too small?

 

tia fyc 

 

You sound stupid. It's not like all people who're in clans are good.

Khafni #13 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:19 AM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,183
  • Member since:
    06-01-2015

View Postpmgaudio, on 14 March 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

<snip>

 

... but Elitism..... it sucks...

 

+1, no ALL my pluses!


                                                                                                     Port Khafni                                                                                                               

Bought: Warspite, Murmansk, Anshan, Blyskawica, Campbeltown, Smith, Leningrad, Sims, Yubari, Lo Yang, Duca D'Aosta (21 Apr), Perth (28 Apr)

Prizes: Albany, Emden, Kamikazi R, Tachibana, Mikasa, Shinanomi, Admiral Graf Spee, Katori, all the ARP stuff and Southern Dragon

Gifts: Ishizuchi, Arizona, Atago, Atlanta, Belfast, Marblehead


Khafni #14 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:20 AM

    Lieutenant Commander

  • Members

  • 2,183
  • Member since:
    06-01-2015

View PostCruiser_TakaoKai, on 14 March 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

 

You sound stupid. It's not like all people who're in clans are good.

 

:facepalm:

                                                                                                     Port Khafni                                                                                                               

Bought: Warspite, Murmansk, Anshan, Blyskawica, Campbeltown, Smith, Leningrad, Sims, Yubari, Lo Yang, Duca D'Aosta (21 Apr), Perth (28 Apr)

Prizes: Albany, Emden, Kamikazi R, Tachibana, Mikasa, Shinanomi, Admiral Graf Spee, Katori, all the ARP stuff and Southern Dragon

Gifts: Ishizuchi, Arizona, Atago, Atlanta, Belfast, Marblehead


Destroyer_KuroshioKai #15 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:26 AM

    Master Chief Petty Officer

  • Members

  • 393
  • Member since:
    09-02-2015

I find I have the potential to farm more damage solo than in a division as long as my team does not fold like a wet noodle.

 

I am more likely to win a battle with two other team mates.  That could be that I mostly division with other competitive players from KNTAI.  Mostly if you play well, either alone or in a division you will succeed in this game.


Art work by Cruiser_SanFrancisco

 

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


Destroyer_KuroshioKai #16 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:29 AM

    Master Chief Petty Officer

  • Members

  • 393
  • Member since:
    09-02-2015

View PostKhafni, on 14 March 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

 

+1, no ALL my pluses!

 

[edited]elitism.

 

It feels really good to smash a team that has unicum divisions in it.  You just need your try hard pants on. 


Art work by Cruiser_SanFrancisco

 

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”
― Robert A. Heinlein


Herr_Reitz #17 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:55 AM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 5,371
  • Member since:
    08-18-2014

Well the point of the post was not to troll... but wondering... I think the match I was in had three divisions of three... all clan members but "named" from different clans. Reds had no divisions and maybe one clan member "named". We got squished badly.  I spent a lot of time in my Edinburgh capping (i know) and chasing a Khab off the team (repeatedly). I only managed 13 or 14k in damage. I wasn't running off map - I was fighting to take and defend caps. Two matches later I had a much better match. Our team won. No divisions. It was a helluva match. 

 

So it even isn't so much the toxicity actually - it is perhaps the random players lumped together having different goals. It seems possible these differing goals might account for some of the steamroller matches we see. Dunno. 

 

I do appreciate hearing your comments and yes I do hope they implement clan wars soon. I would also like them to implement a channel of communication from the support staff to clan leaders - if they have not yet - to let them know when a clan member steps grossly out of line. 

 

And I was not aware a player could be a clan member without being "in the clan". Wouldn't that feel like being short-sheeted? ;-) 



Cruiser_Omaha #18 Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:24 AM

    Seaman

  • Beta Testers

  • 21
  • Member since:
    08-09-2012

Reading your message Herr_Reitz, I really feel your missing the point of clans. Clans in WoWS are meant to be communities of like minded players who want to hang out and play with each other, creating bonds between players which enriches the game experience. MOST clans are not there to bully non-clan members or to be "elite" over non-clan members in any way. Yes, there is clans with skill requirements who want elite players, but this is because they chose to be a community of players with a strong presence in the competitive sense, like the Supremacy League.

 

A rule to live by is that a team that works together does better, and they have a higher chance at winning. Thus, it makes logical sense that players who partake in division will inherently do better than those who do not. This is true for all divisions, clan based or not. WoWS is, after all, a team based game not a game of solos who duke it out individually, so removing team aspects like clans is very contradictory to the overall goal of WG. If only 15 people would learn to communicate and work together like divisions do over chat and TS *cough cough*

 

Lastly, I have never seen clan members shame non-clan members due to their non-membership to a clan. I have seen players in clans give crapto non-clan members, but this has never been in correlation to their clan status. Lets be real, players flame in chat all the time against one another. I have, however, seen people with opinions similar to yours rage against clan members due to that player's membership in a clan. Think of the nature of humans, it's way easier to turn your salt toward someone clearly different than you, i.e. someone with a clan tag, than the other way around. 

 

I firmly believe in the idea of clans as a tool to build up positive and tight knit communities in WoWS. Not everyone wants to be in a clan and that's fine, there's no pressure to join one. However for players like me, clans offer a great way to meet and play with other WoWS players when you yourself might not have any IRL friends that play. Yes, of course not all clans are good and there are instances where a clan will be a bunch of asshats, but this is a small minority at best and is no way reflective of clans as a whole.


    

Herr_Reitz #19 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:01 PM

    Captain

  • Beta Testers

  • 5,371
  • Member since:
    08-18-2014

I think I reached my saturation point when I made the post. I've had more than a single occasion whereupon clan members - more so than non-clan members - have filled chat with obscenities, stat-shaming, the laundry list goes on and is long. Yes, I file tickets with print screens so that much is being done. 

 

The stat-shaming crap starts at or near the end of matches - which is what triggered this match. Guy (kid probably) kept going on about my stats being hidden, blah blah blah... how great he was blah blah blah. I've seen it in-game and even see it in the forums. My stats are average and have been hidden for at least a year. Still people try to stat shame... heck, even the hosting websites used to shame players not participating/sharing stats. Dunno if they still do or not. 

 

Guess I would like to think WoWS/WG would see clans as an opportunity to improve the overall lot of chat and play skills. Time will tell I suspect. Given the choice, I would like to think they would choose the higher ground. 



Landing_Skipper #20 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:31 PM

    Lieutenant Junior Grade

  • Members

  • 1,464
  • Member since:
    02-26-2016

View PostHerr_Reitz, on 14 March 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

I do appreciate hearing your comments and yes I do hope they implement clan wars soon. I would also like them to implement a channel of communication from the support staff to clan leaders - if they have not yet - to let them know when a clan member steps grossly out of line. 

 

Dont know about other clans, but almost every time I play with one of the clan leaders from NCO on up they emphasize the need to report any problems with clanmates. Your suggestion is a good one though. Any chat or play complaints should be forwarded to clan leadership. Again, some clans might just think it's a joke but I guarantee that other clans would take it seriously. 

 

P.S. Stat shaming in general is absurd. There are far too many ways to pad your stats if it matters to you. However, I've had games where some [edited]tells me in detail how bad I am only to look up and find a 44% win rate. I generally resist the temptation to point this out in chat, but it's not easy to do so sometimes. 


Edited by Landing_Skipper, 15 March 2017 - 02:35 PM.

"Plan to be wrong about something." PRR (he knows who he is)





Also tagged with clan, privateers

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users