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Alabama's armor model is already massively in error

Alabama armor model error

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Big_Spud #1 Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:38 PM

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Well, I had hoped I wouldn't need to do this, but good lord this is just too massive of an error to pass up talking about.

 

First let me say something: This thread is not in regards to the height of Alabama's citadel. WG has stated that its necessary in order to balance its incredible maneuverability and TDS value. Okay, I'm fine with that.

 

What I'm NOT fine with however, is this. 

 

 

Oh lordy, what the hell have you done WG?

 

Firstly, I understand that WG is incapable of modeling armor faces of tapering thickness. That's okay, calculating the exact thickness at any given point on a tapering plate would be ridiculous. WG normally solves this with "bands" of thickness averaged from the section of plate they sample along its face. Usually this works semi-acceptably for things like barbettes that decrease in thickness beneath protective decks or behind belt armor. Bayern is a good showcase of this working properly. The varying armor "bands" are clear to see.

 

 

Where this system begins to become a problem is with  the belts of high tier USN battleships. WG has also now under-modeled massive sections of armor on Alabama. 

 

The issue exists because of the tapering thickness on the belts/bulkheads of these ships. On Alabama, the main belt is 12.2" of class A armor plate resting above a lower plate of class B armor plate, which tapers from 12" down to 1.5" or so at the bottom of the side, far below the waterline. The upper belt was 3.2 meters tall, and the 12" section of the lower belt was roughly 1.2 meters tall before tapering to 6", then 4" and finally 1.5". The Iowa class also essentially mimics this armor scheme. Here's a visual aid, with a blue line showing the waterline at around standard displacement.

 

 

Now unfortunately, WG has decided on the Alabama, that the upper section of 12" class B plate shouldn't be its own band, and has tossed in the average of the taper in that area below it. Whats this means is that Alabama's armor model essentially "skips" over a huge chunk of the primary belt armor, and instantly transitions from 310mm (12.2") to 184mm (7.2"), just below the waterline.

 

Since this is bad resolution and blown up horribly from youtube, ENHANCE:

 

 

That right there is how WG has the belt armor modeled currently...

 

WHY DID THEY DO THIS!?

 

Frankly, this armor model looks unfinished, but this is from right after the NDA was lifted, and no other changes to the ship have been posted as of yet. There are no multiple bands of thickness on the entire belt, just an instant transition from 310mm to 184mm where it should transition to 310mm and begin tapering down in thickness not above or at the waterline, but a nearly 2 meters BELOW it. That section there should look more like this:

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^

THAT'S what the belt armor section on Alabama SHOULD look like.

 

The overall thickness of the plate is decreased underwater, but the 12.2" section of the belt actually extends below the waterline down to where it should be before tapering. This is a fairly glaring issue and should be fixed as soon as possible, otherwise Alabama is going to make the citadel issues that plagued Warspite look small-time, and be open to citpens through her belt from 8" cruiser guns as far away as 14km. It also makes angling the ship a ridiculously fine line between utter failure and success versus enemy battleships, even more so than the notoriously difficult to handle Iowa. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see the issues here, especially when WG has been actively implementing changes to encourage aggressive battleship play as of late.

 

 

WG, pls fix.

 


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Check out this thread to see how the community managed to rescue Alabama from mediocrity: http://forum.worldof...18#entry2868718

 

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Canadatron #2 Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:45 PM

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So this is where the next Alabamadrama is huh? We going to need a new thread every few minutes this time around or will a handful of threads suffice?

 


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Phoenix_jz #3 Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:59 PM

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Even Nixon is getting jealous at the amount of drama that Alabama is generating...

Seriously though, as much as people bringing up 14" shell hits irrelevant to the citadel is annoying, this is definitely a flaw that should be fixed. At the very least, the 12" band should be modelled...

But below that it's actually thinner than 7.2", so be careful what you wish for...


 

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Big_Spud #4 Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:59 PM

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View PostCanadatron, on 12 March 2017 - 06:45 PM, said:

So this is where the next Alabamadrama is huh? We going to need a new thread every few minutes this time around or will a handful of threads suffice?

 

 

Doubt it. Most people are going to be complaining about the citadel height, not the incorrect belt armor thickness.

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Check out this thread to see how the community managed to rescue Alabama from mediocrity: http://forum.worldof...18#entry2868718

 

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Big_Spud #5 Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:01 AM

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View PostPhoenix_jz, on 12 March 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

Even Nixon is getting jealous at the amount of drama that Alabama is generating...

Seriously though, as much as people bringing up 14" shell hits irrelevant to the citadel is annoying, this is definitely a flaw that should be fixed. At the very least, the 12" band should be modelled...

But below that it's actually thinner than 7.2", so be careful what you wish for...
 

 

I don't really think the lower armor belt really matters that much, but the 184mm section that starts at/above the waterline is extremely concerning with its blatant incorrectness.

 

In terms of belt armor thickness, I would much prefer it to be accurate over some minuscule game-play advantage that is derived from it being wrong. In this case though, it makes Alabama vulnerable to CRUISER guns out to almost 15 kilometers.


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Check out this thread to see how the community managed to rescue Alabama from mediocrity: http://forum.worldof...18#entry2868718

 

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Battlecruiser_Tiger #6 Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:02 AM

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View PostCanadatron, on 12 March 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

So this is where the next Alabamadrama is huh? We going to need a new thread every few minutes this time around or will a handful of threads suffice?

 

 

Actually, I think this is a pretty relevant thread.

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tm63au #7 Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:12 AM

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Hi Spud

Another good catch might be time to send this info to pigeon and hope that he can get them to sought this one out quick before she goes on sail.

Having said that I still plan to buy her when she comes out hopefully not in this state though.

cheers



Wulfgarn #8 Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:13 AM

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You make a good point.

 

I'm sorry to see some are lumping this in with other thread topics. :amazed:


Edited by Wulfgarn, 13 March 2017 - 12:15 AM.

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RivertheRoyal #9 Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:20 AM

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And this is how you make a good suggestion. 

Wulfgarn #10 Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:26 AM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 12 March 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

And this is how you make a good suggestion. 

 

I've been waiting to hear that from you! :honoring:

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Kitsunelegend #11 Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:51 AM

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I'm all for letting Alabama's cit be that high, but ONLY if this issue gets fixed. Proper armor modeling can go a long way to making skill an important factor in the game.

 

Being lazy about it like what WG has done right here, just makes the game a sloppy mess.

 

WG, please don't be Gaijoob. Model the armor correctly. :fishpalm:


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awiggin #12 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:13 AM

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Here's an idea....don't buy it? :)

It boggles my mind what players demand in an arcade game. :fishpalm:

If they modeled it that way, they did it for balance purposes, and in an arcade game, balance takes precedence.....

 

I can understand the outrage if you had already bought the ship...but there is a simple solution to this issue...


Edited by awiggin, 13 March 2017 - 01:14 AM.

 

 


Battlecruiser_Tiger #13 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:15 AM

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View Postawiggin, on 13 March 2017 - 01:13 AM, said:

Here's an idea....don't buy it? :)

It boggles my mind what players demand in an arcade game. :fishpalm:

If they modeled it that way, they did it for balance purposes, and in an arcade game, balance takes precedence.....

 

Wargaming's staff are the ones who constantly hold up their armoring system as if it's based upon real-life considerations. They're to blame if people have expectations that precedents will be upheld - not those who complain.

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Big_Spud #14 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:23 AM

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View Postawiggin, on 12 March 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

Here's an idea....don't buy it? :)

It boggles my mind what players demand in an arcade game. :fishpalm:

If they modeled it that way, they did it for balance purposes, and in an arcade game, balance takes precedence.....

 

I can understand the outrage if you had already bought the ship...but there is a simple solution to this issue...

 

The point 

 

__________

 

 

Your head


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Check out this thread to see how the community managed to rescue Alabama from mediocrity: http://forum.worldof...18#entry2868718

 

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issm #15 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:27 AM

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Who the hell cares.

 

Deal with it, or don't buy the ship.


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RevolutionBlues #16 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:31 AM

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As somebody who has watched the Battleship community cry until Wargaming nerfed every other class in the game:

 


 

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Big_Spud #17 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:35 AM

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Lots of points flying over many heads.

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Check out this thread to see how the community managed to rescue Alabama from mediocrity: http://forum.worldof...18#entry2868718

 

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DerKrampus #18 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:42 AM

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View Postissm, on 13 March 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:

Who the hell cares.

 

Deal with it, or don't buy the ship.

Who the hell cares?

 

Deal with it, or don't comment.

 

There.  Now we've contributed equally to the discussion.


 


Big_Spud #19 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:52 AM

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View PostRevolutionBlues, on 12 March 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

 

I get the point. I just don't give a fuck.

 

And? You gave enough to come and [edited]post about it.

Fat sterned botes make the warships world go 'round.

 

Check out this thread to see how the community managed to rescue Alabama from mediocrity: http://forum.worldof...18#entry2868718

 

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Hangoverhomey #20 Posted 13 March 2017 - 01:57 AM

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It's a USN bb so of course it's armor is all fubar, nothing new.

 

Seriously though..... I'm so tired of WG's apparent hate on for usn ships.


Edited by Hangoverhomey, 13 March 2017 - 02:01 AM.






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