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Dive Bombers - did I miss a Buff?


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AdmiralThunder #1 Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:24 PM

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Lately it seems that the dive bombers have become extremely strong. Can't say when this 1st became noticeable but it has been for at least 2+ weeks now. Probably closer to a month. They suddenly seem so much better and it isn't because I am at higher tiers. I have kind of been in the same tiers and matches now for a while( see T4-T8 ).

 

When I 1st started playing WOWS in December 2016 it was the torp planes I feared. The dive bombers were pretty easy to evade. If you did get hit it did little damage and occasionally started a fire. Now, it is very hard to avoid being hit and every hit sets you on fire. It also "paddles you" as Jingles says.

 

I saw one take out a full HP CL not too long back with 1 hit( was a Budyonny as I recall - the player was NOT happy about it in chat )and I have seen some massive damage to BB's as well. NEVER seen that before. I had a game, in my Cleveland of all ships, just today where even with a fighter, defensive AA, and the good AA of the ship itself I got toasted by the dive bombers over and over. Felt like a marshmallow at a s'mores party! And it wasn't just the fires it was serious damage with each hit. In effect it made me useless the whole game. I was so badly damaged it took just one salvo to blow me up and that was only ship hit I took.

 

I am not trashing CV's or anything just asking what if anything changed with the dive bombers.? I don't remember any patch notes that said they were getting buffed but maybe I missed it. They sure SEEM to be more OP now. I actually ask CV's at start of game now to send their fighters after the dive bombers vs the torp planes. Just amazing how much better they seem recently. 

 


Edited by AdmiralThunder, 08 March 2017 - 10:26 PM.


Viscount #2 Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:28 PM

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no recent buffs, back when the captain skills were reworked it got easier to get the air supremacy skill though for +1 plane to fighter and db squads.

pewpewpew42 #3 Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:34 PM

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If you get hit by DBs in an AA Cleveland you're doing it wrong.

 

EDIT: Were you hit by a Saipain? Those can have 9 Tier 9 bombers, which WILL hit like a truck. Treat it as though a Hermelin gets dropped on you each time they come out. the raw damage (ram vs bombs) and the DoT (flood vs 2-3 fires) are about the same.


Edited by pewpewpew42, 08 March 2017 - 10:47 PM.

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Volron #4 Posted 08 March 2017 - 11:45 PM

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Nothing has changed from what I can tell.  I'd say you are running into people who know how to manual drop with DB's.  Auto drop CAN net a heavy hit, but most of the time it'll just "tickle".  Manual drop however, will result in a lot of damage and fire a good amount of the time.  It is not super uncommon for me to hit something for 8-10k with Ranger's DB's, per squadron, when manual dropping (shaved 25k off a Tirpitz once. :)).  If I were to have some kind of "gripe", it would be that Lexington's SB2C's don't "connect" anywhere as often as Ranger's SBD's when manual dropping.  But oh boy, when they DO hit...  :playing:  :red_button::izmena:  1k's = :trollface:

 

When it comes to IJN, things are a bit different.  While they don't have the raw power that the USN DB's do (4 ac vs 6), they can net some good hits on the high end (6-8k).  Mistress RNG loves you if you don't get hit with a manual drop from IJN DB's.  It's uncommon for me to miss a DD with manual DB against DD's, due to how tight the grouping is for IJN, and extremely rare to miss the smallest CA's. :hiding:

 

Like with manual TB's, you WILL get nipped when someone manual drops with DB's.  Except your ONLY saving grace is Mistress RNG at that point, as I've had all 3 DB's (Ranger/Lexington Strike) only incapacitate a module or two with no "hard" damage or fire done to a target.  While this is mostly on DD's, occasionally it'll happen on CA's; the smaller ones.



desmo_2 #5 Posted 09 March 2017 - 12:20 AM

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IMO, dive bombers should have the capability to do massive damage...but RNG should play a large role.  There should be lots of misses and some glancing hits...but detonations should be a very real threat from dive bombers.  I have seen photos from USN tests when they were trying to determine whether or not aircraft were a real threat to front-line capital ships (read:  battleships).  The tests were against static targets but were nonetheless conclusive...dive bombers could be devastating.

 

To balance it, I would rather torpedo squadrons be less effective.  My recollection of history may be flawed and I am currently too lazy to do the research for the sake of a casual forum post, but I seem to recall some absolutely devastating strikes during WWII from dive bombers...and only a couple from torpedo planes.  Current meta when I am in a battleship causes me to select TBD's as my primary AA target.


Edited by desmo_2, 09 March 2017 - 12:21 AM.


AdmiralThunder #6 Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:25 PM

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View Postpewpewpew42, on 08 March 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

If you get hit by DBs in an AA Cleveland you're doing it wrong.

 

EDIT: Were you hit by a Saipain? Those can have 9 Tier 9 bombers, which WILL hit like a truck. Treat it as though a Hermelin gets dropped on you each time they come out. the raw damage (ram vs bombs) and the DoT (flood vs 2-3 fires) are about the same.

 

​I don't fire the AA guns at the planes. All I can do is WASD, use my fighter, use my defensive AA, etc.... So not sure how I am doing it wrong? I can't seem to make them miss anymore and when they do hit me now I get paddled bad?

 

Cleveland at T6 doesn't see T9 ships so? Isn't Saipan a T7 though? If I recall correctly the enemy CV was a Lexington.


Edited by AdmiralThunder, 09 March 2017 - 03:32 PM.


HMCS_Devilfish #7 Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:28 PM

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I got citadeld by a dive bomber the other day  ... frst time in 3400 games

AdmiralThunder #8 Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:28 PM

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View Postdesmo_2, on 08 March 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

IMO, dive bombers should have the capability to do massive damage...but RNG should play a large role.  There should be lots of misses and some glancing hits...but detonations should be a very real threat from dive bombers.  I have seen photos from USN tests when they were trying to determine whether or not aircraft were a real threat to front-line capital ships (read:  battleships).  The tests were against static targets but were nonetheless conclusive...dive bombers could be devastating.

 

To balance it, I would rather torpedo squadrons be less effective.  My recollection of history may be flawed and I am currently too lazy to do the research for the sake of a casual forum post, but I seem to recall some absolutely devastating strikes during WWII from dive bombers...and only a couple from torpedo planes.  Current meta when I am in a battleship causes me to select TBD's as my primary AA target.

 

​No, you are right. In WW2 the dive bombers did the most damage and the torpedo planes were largely ineffective. At least for the USN anyway.

 

I am not complaining about the effectiveness of the DB's here. Just wondering why they seem so much better recently?



MrDeaf #9 Posted 09 March 2017 - 03:34 PM

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View Postpewpewpew42, on 08 March 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

If you get hit by DBs in an AA Cleveland you're doing it wrong.

 

EDIT: Were you hit by a Saipain? Those can have 9 Tier 9 bombers, which WILL hit like a truck. Treat it as though a Hermelin gets dropped on you each time they come out. the raw damage (ram vs bombs) and the DoT (flood vs 2-3 fires) are about the same.

 

no, it's just the nature of RNG.

 

Saipan's 9 bombers can and will score 1~2 hits on a Sims using its DFAA, if CV captain paid tribute to RNG.


What is the Torpedo Reload Booster and does it have a historical basis? http://forum.worldof...could-poses-it/

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ForgMaxtor #10 Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:28 PM

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View PostAdmiralThunder, on 09 March 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

 

​No, you are right. In WW2 the dive bombers did the most damage and the torpedo planes were largely ineffective. At least for the USN anyway.

 

 

Try again.  USN Torpedo bombers where highly effective in WWII and sank numerous warships.  In fact, some historians assert that TBF/M Avengers sank more IJN ships than any other USN airframe.  Whether true or not, I'm not sure this is a particularly useful statistic because the Avenger was the USN's primary carrier-based torpedo bomber for most of the war -- from about July 1942 on,  while USN dive bomber stats are split betweeen two major air frames -- the Dauntless and the Helldiver.

 

But regardless, there can be no doubt that the Avenger was a successful torpedo attack bomber.  Aerial torpedo hits by Avengers played a significant role in the sinking of IJN BBs Hiei, Musashi,  and Yamato, carriers Zuikaku, Ryujo, Hiyo, Zuiho, heavy cruisers Kinugasa, Nachi, Kumano and Chikuma, and large number of smaller warships and auxilliaries.  The preceding are all ships hit and significantly damaged by Avenger torpedo attacks -- Avengers sank or damaged a number of IJN warships with bombs as well.  The flexibility of the airframe was another of its great strengths; it could carry a variety of mission loads.  It was also the USN's primary carrier-launched ASW airframe and, in the latter part of the war, was modified to carry radar, making it the first carrier-launched bomber capable of radar-guided night attack missions.

 

I think a lot of the poor perception of USN torpedo bombers is a result of the Battle of Midway, where the USN TB squadrons got pretty much wiped out without scoring a single hit.  But the USN TBs at Midway those were obsolete Devastators, not Avengers; Avengers completely replaced the Devastators in USN carrier air wings very shortly after Midway (in fact, a few Avengers, the very first to see combat, actually participated in the Battle of Midway, but flying from the island, not the carriers).  And other tactical considerations played a role in the poor performance of the USN TBs at Midway.  In the Battle of Coral Sea a month earlier, the Devastators performed well enough, scoring numerous torpedo hits upon the CVL Shoho,  helping to sink her, and also sinking DD Kikuzuki with a torpedo hit.


Edited by ForgMaxtor, 09 March 2017 - 05:09 PM.


Palladia #11 Posted 09 March 2017 - 07:29 PM

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View PostHMCS_Devilfish, on 09 March 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

I got citadeld by a dive bomber the other day ... frst time in 3400 games

 

Thats a...THATS A THING?!  Holy crap!  I have never hit a citadel with a bomber.  That must be the RNGiest of RNG.

Cpt_Cupcake #12 Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:04 AM

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View PostPalladia, on 09 March 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

 

Thats a...THATS A THING?!  Holy crap!  I have never hit a citadel with a bomber.  That must be the RNGiest of RNG.

 

​Yep... it is. Was in my izumo long ago, full health, sailing by myself... and a midway came by and left me with 3khp and a confused look on my face...  just from the DBs...

 



Bant_Battlemage #13 Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:27 PM

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View PostAdmiralThunder, on 09 March 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

 

 

Cleveland at T6 doesn't see T9 ships so? Isn't Saipan a T7 though? If I recall correctly the enemy CV was a Lexington.

 

Saipan is a T7 CV with T9 planes. Her squadrons are very small compared to all other CVs (especially USN ones), but the planes are godly if your top tier.

Danno_ #14 Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:44 PM

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View PostBant_Battlemage, on 22 March 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

Saipan is a T7 CV with T9 planes. Her squadrons are very small compared to all other CVs (especially USN ones), but the planes are godly if your top tier.

 

The Saipan DB squadrons have 9 planes, and Torp squadrons 3 planes. 

The 9 DBs with 1000 lb bombs can lay on quite a bit of hurt.






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