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The First of the Carrier Rework News (Speculation Plus Don't Expect "Big" Changes Yet)


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AdmiralMudkip #1 Posted 08 March 2017 - 06:25 PM

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Source:  https://thearmoredpa...ews-8-iii-2017/

Reddit:  https://www.reddit.c...ne_new_italian/

 

  • CV: Fighters can now disengage when doing ALT.
  • Removed ALT attack for CVs – tiers 4 and 5.
  • Aircrafts instead of returing to CVs after carrying the attack and the CV is killed, will now stay where they are.
  • Capture points in CV view will show circle lines instead of buoys.

 

 

Expected for the first of the carrier reworks, they will start with ironing out the bugs and inconsistencies regarding the UI and controls. After that, it is expected that they will go for the balancing issues. While 6.3 is for the repair of UI and improvement of controls, 6.4 can range from simply redoing the fighter loadouts or completely changing the gameplay of carriers as a whole. 

 

The big takeaway is the removal of manual drops for CV's in Tiers 4 and 5. Wargaming's reason for this major change is to prevent and/or diminish "sealclubbing" (in case no one knows this term, it means a higher skilled player decisively winning against an inexperienced player) at those tiers. Some speculate that this may not fix things at all as sealclubbers can simply dominate at Tiers 6 and above, but others would note of stronger AA and that there's enough skilled players on both sides to make a difference. 

 

 



Danno_ #2 Posted 08 March 2017 - 06:36 PM

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Minor changes as far as I can see - or am i missing something?

It will be interesting to see how gameplay change will impact the prem Saipan.



BrushWolf #3 Posted 08 March 2017 - 07:04 PM

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Removing the Alt attack for tier 4 & 5 is good because of the seal clubbing but it is bad because now you have to learn manual drops in the much harsher tier 5 MM. Hopefully auto drops will be receiving a bit of a buff as currently Mr Magoo can dodge them.

  

 

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cometguy #4 Posted 08 March 2017 - 07:21 PM

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Fighters disengaging is good, the alt fire change for t4 and t5 is good and bad, the other two I'm completely I different to.

TTK_Aegis #5 Posted 08 March 2017 - 07:51 PM

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Honestly I could see an argument in favor of making auto drop tighter and closer (but not as tight and close as a perfect manual drop) and removing manual drops entirely from the game. Yes, that's dumbing down the current skill ceiling of CV play, but it's also lowering the barrier to entry and making having a newbie CV on your team less painful for everyone else. Right now the difference between vet and newbie CV players is more stark than any other class, and can utterly dictate how a match turns out in many cases. It's both why people tend to be afraid to start playing CVs and why so many people hate seeing CVs in their match. It's not so much that the enemy CV is scary, it's that if you ended up with the weaker CV player you're probably in for a loss. 

cometguy #6 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:03 PM

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What about buffing auto drop and leaving manual drop? So it's more accurate, but the difference isn't as drastic. My concern with full on removing manual drops is that balancing CVs with the rest of the ships will become a lot more difficult. A skilled captain is a much much much harder target to hit than an average captain. If you balance auto drops for the average captain, then a skilled captain is virtually untouchable to a CV. And if you balance to a skilled captain, then you just made 90% of the player base fodder for 100% of the CVs.

AVR_Project #7 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:03 PM

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Eliminating manual drops is a severe and egregious nerf for the Langley and Bogue.  The Hosho and Zuiho with their two smaller torpedo squads will continue to wreck face with auto-drops.


 


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Captain_Dorja #8 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:05 PM

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Mountains get moved one shovel full at a time. Fighters disengaging would be excellent. I think the circle instead of buoys too. It's not a huge thing, but have you ever tried to look at the cap point before from a CV? You basically can't see it.

I think the manual drop thing is dumb personally. I think it's the same thing as making it so t4 ships never get t6 matches. In theory, it's a great idea. It totally solves the problem of people hitting a grind wall at t4 from being up tiered constantly. It does this by ensuring that they hit a grind wall that is more harsh and 3 times longer at tier 5, and a slightly less awful, but now 9 times longer wall at tier 6. So one small problem has been removed by creating a huge one, and ruining a large sector of fun mid tiers for veteran players in the process. Nice work. If anything, I see this as even less important with the CV manual drops thing. Yeah sure, you certainly CAN seal club like a boss as an experienced CV captain in low tiers, but really, how prevalent is that problem? Even if 100% of t4/t5 carriers were seal clubbers, they would be effecting what? Maybe 1 match in 10? 100% of CV players down there are not seal clubbing. It's just preventing anyone new from trying to learn how to play on the ships that exist for them to learn how to play with, teaching them bad habits, and ensuring that as they get farther along in the game they will be worse prepared for what they are trying to do. It widens the skill gap and in my opinion will make new players top playing carriers even faster than they already do.

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Deviathan #9 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:10 PM

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What happens if you're a tier 5 CV who happens to get sent into an uptiered match that also has a T6 CV on both sides?  You just have to hope those guys don't know how to strafe while you're stuck only being able to do click attacks?  I've been using the Hosho here and there a bit learning to time my strafes and trying to be more consistent with fighter control, but I guess I'm going to have to move on to the Zuiho and try to perfect my technique and get to the Ryujo before the patch hits.

Rhagna #10 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:15 PM

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View PostDeviathan, on 08 March 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

What happens if you're a tier 5 CV who happens to get sent into an uptiered match that also has a T6 CV on both sides?  You just have to hope those guys don't know how to strafe while you're stuck only being able to do click attacks?  I've been using the Hosho here and there a bit learning to time my strafes and trying to be more consistent with fighter control, but I guess I'm going to have to move on to the Zuiho and try to perfect my technique and get to the Ryujo before the patch hits.

 

You need to get the Ryujo before the patch hits. It's glorious and terrifying to all other carriers if you're running 3/1/1 
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Premium: Atago, Kutuzov, Graf Spee, Kamikaze, Konig Albert, Saipan IJN: Hiryu, Furutaka, Akatsuki, Izumo RN: Leander USN: Farragut KM: Bayern, V-170 VMF: Budyonny ARP: Kongo, Hiei, Haruna, Kirishima, Myoko, Haguro, Nachi, Ashigara
 

Robinhood_ #11 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:15 PM

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View PostDeviathan, on 08 March 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

What happens if you're a tier 5 CV who happens to get sent into an uptiered match that also has a T6 CV on both sides?  You just have to hope those guys don't know how to strafe while you're stuck only being able to do click attacks?  I've been using the Hosho here and there a bit learning to time my strafes and trying to be more consistent with fighter control, but I guess I'm going to have to move on to the Zuiho and try to perfect my technique and get to the Ryujo before the patch hits.

 

I think CV's are always same tier in MM.Well I have never seen different tier MM...

Edited by Robinhood_, 08 March 2017 - 08:16 PM.


Deviathan #12 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:18 PM

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View PostRobinhood_, on 08 March 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

 

I think CV's are always same tier in MM.Well I have never seen different tier MM...

 

It's not been terribly uncommon for me to be paired up with a T5 CV on my team as a T4 CV in the dual matches, does that stop after you move up to the T5?

 

Let me start over.  As a T4 CV, maybe half of my matches have been 2 CV per team, with me being paired with a T5 (and same for the other team, 1 T4 and 1 T5).  Does this happen for the T5 CV as well with T6?  So in this scenario, the T5 can only click attack and auto drop, but the T6 can strafe and manual drop.  I would think the only solution they'd have is to adjust the MM for CV again to keep this from happening, otherwise it seems extremely unbalanced to me.

 

e: edited for clarity


Edited by Deviathan, 08 March 2017 - 08:53 PM.


Zim_Xero #13 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:19 PM

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View PostAdmiralMudkip, on 08 March 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

Source:  https://thearmoredpa...ews-8-iii-2017/

Reddit:  https://www.reddit.c...ne_new_italian/

 

  • CV: Fighters can now disengage when doing ALT.
  • Removed ALT attack for CVs – tiers 4 and 5.
  • Aircrafts instead of returing to CVs after carrying the attack and the CV is killed, will now stay where they are.
  • Capture points in CV view will show circle lines instead of buoys.

 

 

Expected for the first of the carrier reworks, they will start with ironing out the bugs and inconsistencies regarding the UI and controls. After that, it is expected that they will go for the balancing issues. While 6.3 is for the repair of UI and improvement of controls, 6.4 can range from simply redoing the fighter loadouts or completely changing the gameplay of carriers as a whole. 

 

The big takeaway is the removal of manual drops for CV's in Tiers 4 and 5. Wargaming's reason for this major change is to prevent and/or diminish "sealclubbing" (in case no one knows this term, it means a higher skilled player decisively winning against an inexperienced player) at those tiers. Some speculate that this may not fix things at all as sealclubbers can simply dominate at Tiers 6 and above, but others would note of stronger AA and that there's enough skilled players on both sides to make a difference. 

 

 

 

I think removing a game mechanic at a certain tier or set of tiers is a serious problem.  Its definitely not an elegant solution, in what is otherwise a consistent and elegant game.  They need to balance out those tiers instead of removing a game mechnanic.  My suggestion would be to make manual torpedo dropping a more efficient process for some ships than others... but a better solution would be this:

 

When manually dropping, your aircraft are 50% more susceptible to AA fire.


Tier V -   Konig   Kongo   Furutaka   Zuiho   Texas   Marbelhead   Okhotnik   Kamikaze   

Tier VI -  Budyonny   Aoba   Leander   Arizona   Anshan   Dunkerque   Graf Spee   Warspite

Tier VII - Algerie   Shiratsuyu   Fiji   Saipan   Leningrad   Scharnhorst   Atlanta   Hood   Belfast   Blyskawica

Tier VIII+  Z-46   Grozovoi   Khabarovsk   Shokaku   Bismarck   Missouri   Atago   Alabama   Tirpitz   Lo Yang   Mikhail Kutuzov


Special_Kay #14 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:27 PM

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View PostRobinhood_, on 08 March 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

I think CV's are always same tier in MM.Well I have never seen different tier MM...

 

CVs have mirrored matchmaking, and are capped at two per team until T8 when it becomes one per team. T5 and T6 vs T5 and T6 is mirrored, and entirely possible—indeed, that is the scenario which Deviathan described.

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cometguy #15 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:49 PM

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View PostZim_Xero, on 08 March 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

 

I think removing a game mechanic at a certain tier or set of tiers is a serious problem.  Its definitely not an elegant solution, in what is otherwise a consistent and elegant game.  They need to balance out those tiers instead of removing a game mechnanic.  My suggestion would be to make manual torpedo dropping a more efficient process for some ships than others... but a better solution would be this:

 

When manually dropping, your aircraft are 50% more susceptible to AA fire.

I really wish WG would really evaluate the underlying reason they feel a change is necessary.

They want to remove manual drops from t4 and t5 because they are too powerful in some hands. Why are they too powerful at those tiers and not t6+?

Also, they had to extend preferred match making to t5 CVS so that they can't see above t6.

 

To me, this suggests insufficient AA makes manual drops a potentially overpowered ability, and too much AA is overpowering. And since t5 CVS are simultaneously overpowered and underpowered, according to these changes, why is AA not getting a rework?



cjwagn1 #16 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:50 PM

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View PostZim_Xero, on 08 March 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

When manually dropping, your aircraft are 50% more susceptible to AA fire.

 

Carrier planes already melt at higher tiers, if you try to use manual drop then all your planes are gone...

Zim_Xero #17 Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:53 PM

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View Postcjwagn1, on 08 March 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

 

Carrier planes already melt at higher tiers, if you try to use manual drop then all your planes are gone...

 

Its a small window of time during the manual drop.  It makes it so that CVs must know their targets well enough... is this safe...  does it require an escort... or is it worth the extra risk anyway?  

Edited by Zim_Xero, 08 March 2017 - 08:54 PM.

Tier V -   Konig   Kongo   Furutaka   Zuiho   Texas   Marbelhead   Okhotnik   Kamikaze   

Tier VI -  Budyonny   Aoba   Leander   Arizona   Anshan   Dunkerque   Graf Spee   Warspite

Tier VII - Algerie   Shiratsuyu   Fiji   Saipan   Leningrad   Scharnhorst   Atlanta   Hood   Belfast   Blyskawica

Tier VIII+  Z-46   Grozovoi   Khabarovsk   Shokaku   Bismarck   Missouri   Atago   Alabama   Tirpitz   Lo Yang   Mikhail Kutuzov


HazeGrayUnderway #18 Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:06 PM

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Saipan drivers are going to love being able to disengage their fighters.

 

Buff for Saipan :trollface:



BrushWolf #19 Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:56 PM

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View PostDeviathan, on 08 March 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

What happens if you're a tier 5 CV who happens to get sent into an uptiered match that also has a T6 CV on both sides?  You just have to hope those guys don't know how to strafe while you're stuck only being able to do click attacks?  I've been using the Hosho here and there a bit learning to time my strafes and trying to be more consistent with fighter control, but I guess I'm going to have to move on to the Zuiho and try to perfect my technique and get to the Ryujo before the patch hits.

 

That is a good question which no one here has the answer to.

  

 

Ich lasse mir doch nicht mein Schiff unter dem Arsch wegschießen. Feuererlaubnis! (I'm not letting my ship get shot out from under my arse. Open fire!) Ernst Lindemann Captain KMS Bismarck

 


TheBossNC #20 Posted 09 March 2017 - 11:53 PM

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View PostHazeGrayUnderway, on 09 March 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

Saipan drivers are going to love being able to disengage their fighters.

 

Buff for Saipan :trollface:

 

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