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What is the Torpedo Reload Booster and Which ships could poses it?

Torpedo Reload Booster

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MrDeaf #1 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:22 AM

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TLDR: Only certain classes of IJN cruisers and destroyers carried this.

 

Cruisers

Sendai-class**, Furutaka-class, Aoba-class, Myoko-class, Takao-class, Mogami-class*, Tone-class*, Ibuki-class*, Agano-class

Destroyers

Hatsuharu-class, Shiratsuyu-class, Asashio-class, Kagero-class, Yugumo-class, Akizuki-class

 

* I'm not entirely sure if Mogami-class and Tone-class had them, but there does appear to be room for it. Ibuki was also a copy pasta job of Suzuya, which was a modified Mogami.

** Of the three in class, only Jintsu and Naka got the upgrade in a very late remodel.

 

Stop worrying/asking if Shimakaze or Kitakami will get this, they never had it historically and never will in game.

No other nation will get this either, as it is purely an IJN invention and nobody else sought to copy the idea.


The long version

 

Technically, it is called the 「次発装填装置」, or, roughly translated, "Next loading device" and it was an IJN invention.

 

The idea behind this device was in how the flow of battle was envisioned and physical limitations of the ships that needed it, thus creating a "problem" for the IJN battle doctrine. The "flow of battle" was seen as a two part battle, where the Destroyers would launch one set of loaded torpedoes at enemy Destroyers, breaking enemy defensive lines, and then another set of torpedoes for the meaty bits, capital ships. The key word in there was "loaded torpedoes", as only loaded torpedoes can be fired correctly. The problem with this, was that Destroyers would typically have to launch their full set of loaded torpedoes at the enemy destroyers, leaving no more torpedoes for a second battle.

 

At the time, reloading torpedoes was not practical to do at sea and usually took a full day at port. The most obvious way to solve this problem is increasing the number of torpedo tubes, however, at the time, this had its own set of problems. Increasing torpedo launcher tubes could be done in two ways. One is increasing the number of torpedo launcher mounts and the other was increasing the number of launchers per mount.

 

The first method of increasing torpedo launcher mounts requires more deck space. More deck space means the ship itself must be larger, which, in turn, increases displacement. At the time this device was implemented, the IJN was treaty restricted from building any more Fubuki-class special type destroyers with large displacement and were, in turn, forced to build Hatsuharu-class destroyers with a smaller displacement. The IJN did initially manage to retain 3x triple torp launchers on Hatsuharu, but this turned out to be too ambitious.

 

The second method of increasing torpedo mounts per launcher requires stronger motors from the increased weight. This was also a problem that IJN had, where they lacked decent motors. There was also a unique IJN design compounding this issue, where the IJN used larger and heavier 61cm torpedoes compared to other nations, as well as splinter guards on their mounts. Eventually, the IJN did overcome their motor problems. They did progress from triple launchers to quadruple and quintuple as development progressed. They even had a design for a Septuple torpedo launcher mount, but his idea was discarded because it would have been too heavy to turn by hand, should the motors get knocked out.

 

The IJN Solution was to use a reloading device. The reloading device could turn a full day job into a one hour job and effectively doubled the number of torpedoes that could be fired in a single sortie. While the extra torpedoes did increase weight of the ship, it did not drastically increase the size of the ship, nor did it increase the weight of the torpedo launcher mount.

 

The first ship to feature this device was Hatsuharu. Hatsuharu, as initially built, was quite insane. Following in the footsteps of Fubuki, she featured Three Triple launchers, each with a quick reload, on top of her 5 guns. A total of 18 torpedoes that could be fired in a single sortie. This proved to be too top heavy and she had her armament reduced to two triple launchers with quick reloaders and 5 guns in a remodel. This was still 12 Torpedoes total, so Hatsuharu still had more Torpedoes than Fubuki, but the IJN considered Hatsuharu a failure in design, and thus moved on to Shiratsuyu. Shiratsuyu had the triple launchers improved to quad launchers with quick reloaders, giving a total of 16 Torpedoes, and this design stuck around for a while, until the advent of Shimakaze.

 

Shimakaze was closer to a complete design change and did not feature the quick reload device. Using three quiintuple launchers, Shimakaze was able to launch 15 torpedoes. The IJN must have considered this to be plenty, even if it was one less torpedo than their previous designs, and did not equip Shimakaze with a torpedo reload device.

 

Cruisers were not left out and many of them had this device fitted as well. As cruisers had more room on them, they were easier to fit. Most of them feature this device under deck and may not be visible. A vast majority of older model IJN light cruisers, which is Tenryu through Yubari, did not feature this device and only Jintsuu and Naka, of the Sendai-class, seem to have gotten this device fitted when they were remodeled, even though they were not the only older IJN 5500t light cruisers to get a remodel.

 

Pictures of their locations

 

In conclusion, this torpedo quick reloading device was a uniquely IJN solution to a uniquely IJN problem that no one else seemed to have. Even the IJN themselves did not fit this device onto ships which they deemed had enough torpedo firepower for their intended role.


Edited by MrDeaf, 27 February 2017 - 11:56 PM.

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Unabletony #2 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:30 AM

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BlueMistPvP #3 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:34 AM

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My brain and eyes are now bleeding.......

TenguBlade #4 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:40 AM

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The layout of the Mogamis' torpedo batteries seems to suggest they have this equipment as well.  I also see no reason why the Tones wouldn't, seeing as they were still battle-line warships through and through and were given identical torpedo armament to other IJN CAs of the time.  Ibuki, as a repeat of Mogami, would probably have it too, although the system would likely have been of a design similar to the Takaos and not like those found on IJN DDs and the triple-tubed IJN CAs, since those ships carried a single reload for each torpedo tube (I believe all IJN cruisers had a total capacity of 24 fish regardless of torpedo launcher layout).

 

And on that note, why are all 4 torpedo launchers on the entirety of the IJN CA line facing backwards when the forward set of torpedo tubes pointed forwards historically on MyokoMogami, Tone, and Ibuki?  I'd imagine they would for Zao too but her tubes practically face forwards already.


Edited by TenguBlade, 27 February 2017 - 02:44 AM.

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IJN: Yamato, Amagi, Ibuki, Mogami, Shokaku, Hiryu, Akatsuki, Hatsuharu/Shiratsuyu, Kamikaze R, Katori, MikasaKongō, Myōkō, Kirishima, Haruna, Hiei, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro, TakaoSouthern Dragon

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European Navies: Gnevny, Shchors, Nürnberg, Bayern, Fiji, Blyskawica (Gift from Compassghost), Scharnhorst (First and only bought), Admiral Graf Spee


RivertheRoyal #5 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:41 AM

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Now, I'm wondering how the reload itself worked.....

MrDeaf #6 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:46 AM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 26 February 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

Now, I'm wondering how the reload itself worked.....

 

It works in a similar manner to revolver quick loaders.

You would turn the launcher to the appropriate position and then use a crane and man power to slide the torpedoes into their respective tubes.

The cranes are that scaffolding you see on top of where the torpedoes are stored.


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TenguBlade #7 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:47 AM

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View PostRivertheRoyal, on 26 February 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

Now, I'm wondering how the reload itself worked.....

I believe there was a crane and/or winch system that pulled the torpedoes out of the locker and into the launcher tube from behind; of course, they'd have to line the launcher up to do so in the first place.  They probably serviced and prepared the torpedoes for launch once they were in the tubes and not beforehand - IIRC for a triple launcher the entire process took as little as five minutes.


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YamatoA150 #8 Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:59 AM

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View PostTenguBlade, on 26 February 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

The layout of the Mogamis' torpedo batteries seems to suggest they have this equipment as well.  I also see no reason why the Tones wouldn't, seeing as they were still battle-line warships through and through and were given identical torpedo armament to other IJN CAs of the time.  Ibuki, as a repeat of Mogami, would probably have it too, although the system would likely have been of a design similar to the Takaos and not like those found on IJN DDs and the triple-tubed IJN CAs, since those ships carried a single reload for each torpedo tube (I believe all IJN cruisers had a total capacity of 24 fish regardless of torpedo launcher layout).

 

And on that note, why are all 4 torpedo launchers on the entirety of the IJN CA line facing backwards when the forward set of torpedo tubes pointed forwards historically on MyokoMogami, Tone, and Ibuki?  I'd imagine they would for Zao too but her tubes practically face forwards already.

 

WG would probably think it too OP to have Myoko, Mogami, and Ibuki actually having decent or more acceptable forward arcs (though I see no reason why they can't).

 

That aside; Torpedo reload boost consumable for Furutaka to Zao when?  Just the regular one that cuts reload time by 50%; not the Shiratsuyu/Akizuki 99% reduction.

 

Being a distinctly IJN problem and solution, it's not unreasonable for the IJN cruisers to also have access to Torpedo Reload consumable in a separate slot.  With current torpedo firing arcs on all except Atago/Takao and Zao, the reload reduction won't be very useful, but would allow for a bit more strategic use.  And if WG actually improved IJN cruiser torpedo arcs, would be give IJN cruisers their own unique edge.

 

USN and VMF cruisers get Radar, KM cruisers gets superior Hydro, RN cruisers gets Smoke, and IJN cruisers can get Torpedo Reload.


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devastator5000 #9 Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:23 AM

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Very interesting, would love to see it on the IJN cruisers however it would probably be fairly impractical and maybe not as worth it in the end due to their arcs and such.

 

Though the game kinda did away with the "Not reloading at sea" as it would kill gameplay if they did it that way


Edited by devastator5000, 27 February 2017 - 03:24 AM.

Something I found on the SEA server website


TenguBlade #10 Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:35 AM

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View PostYamatoA150, on 26 February 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

WG would probably think it too OP to have Myoko, Mogami, and Ibuki actually having decent or more acceptable forward arcs (though I see no reason why they can't).

 

That aside; Torpedo reload boost consumable for Furutaka to Zao when?  Just the regular one that cuts reload time by 50%; not the Shiratsuyu/Akizuki 99% reduction.

 

Being a distinctly IJN problem and solution, it's not unreasonable for the IJN cruisers to also have access to Torpedo Reload consumable in a separate slot.  With current torpedo firing arcs on all except Atago/Takao and Zao, the reload reduction won't be very useful, but would allow for a bit more strategic use.  And if WG actually improved IJN cruiser torpedo arcs, would be give IJN cruisers their own unique edge.

 

USN and VMF cruisers get Radar, KM cruisers gets superior Hydro, RN cruisers gets Smoke, and IJN cruisers can get Torpedo Reload.

Beats having stupidly-broken HE for "national flavor," especially now that the IJN DDs lost their HE advantage, the BBs never had it, and torpedoes were always the IJN CV specialty (not to mention the supposed flavor of IJN DDs).  Makes more sense for the CAs to specialize in torpedoes too instead of HE and fires.


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IJN: Yamato, Amagi, Ibuki, Mogami, Shokaku, Hiryu, Akatsuki, Hatsuharu/Shiratsuyu, Kamikaze R, Katori, MikasaKongō, Myōkō, Kirishima, Haruna, Hiei, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro, TakaoSouthern Dragon

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DoomStomper #11 Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:44 AM

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Actually, given how closely-spaced the launchers and reload lockers were to one another, it doesn't appear as if a crane, or even a great deal of manpower was necessary.  Simply face the launcher directly away from the reload locker, then hydraulic rams (or more likely a few guys with plungers) push the torpedoes straight into the launcher via a hatch in the rear.

 

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YamatoA150 #12 Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:59 AM

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View PostTenguBlade, on 26 February 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

Beats having stupidly-broken HE for "national flavor," especially now that the IJN DDs lost their HE advantage, the BBs never had it, and torpedoes were always the IJN CV specialty (not to mention the supposed flavor of IJN DDs).  Makes more sense for the CAs to specialize in torpedoes too instead of HE and fires.

 

HE has already been more or less nerfed/balanced.  Moreso now that there's IFHE as an option (IJN doesn't have to take DE along with IFHE unlike the other nations, save for Akizuki), as well as the buffed Fire Reduction skill now also limits fires to 3.

 

Just buffing IJN cruiser torpedo arcs and giving them Torpedo Reload would be pretty reasonable, without stepping into IJN DD torpedo specialty nor stepping on Atago's or Zao's level of coverage.


My massive list of suggestions (Updated 05/17/2016).  Feel free to constructively debate and discuss.

Remember remember the 17th of September, the Tirpitz; which cost a lot.  Some say it's a fortune, and that it's extortion; but the price will never be forgot.

 

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Excield #13 Posted 27 February 2017 - 05:55 AM

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Oh neat. And here I thought that the consumable was something WG pull out of their butts for balancing purposes lol

 

Didn't consider it that the actual IJN themselves did it for "balancing" purposes as well....



mofton #14 Posted 27 February 2017 - 06:09 AM

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Nice write up.

 

Are the deck rails somehow related to reloading in port, or are they mine rails? Some look like they don't make it to the stern.


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MrDeaf #15 Posted 27 February 2017 - 06:29 AM

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View Postmofton, on 27 February 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

Nice write up.

 

Are the deck rails somehow related to reloading in port, or are they mine rails? Some look like they don't make it to the stern.

 

good question.

I think the rails are primarily for dock usage.

Although IJN did have sea mines, I think they were mostly abandoned on newer ships, because IJN did try to save as much weight as possible.

Instead, most of the newer ships feature ASW depth charges and projectors at the stern.

 

View PostExcield, on 27 February 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

Oh neat. And here I thought that the consumable was something WG pull out of their butts for balancing purposes lol

 

Didn't consider it that the actual IJN themselves did it for "balancing" purposes as well....

 

I may or may not have been the first person to ask for a torpedo reload booster consumable.

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Edited by MrDeaf, 27 February 2017 - 06:42 AM.

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MrDeaf #16 Posted 27 February 2017 - 11:57 PM

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I made some minor edits, hopefully making things clearer and easier to understand.


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