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Tier 5 isn't any fun


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LadyJess #21 Posted 03 March 2017 - 12:10 AM

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Can't argue with you here, tier 5 is not as much fun as before. Same with tier 6 - 8 now.

Sabot_100 #22 Posted 03 March 2017 - 12:15 AM

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Then you get the fail divisions where a T5 teams up with a T4 or even a T3.

 

So is it T7 where it finally evens out where you can go 2-up and 2-down?

 

T5 is bad. Always pitting my ARP Kongo vs Scharnhorsts makes it hard to tell if I am really a bad BB player or just outclassed most of the time (so only sort of bad).


Edited by Sabot_100, 03 March 2017 - 12:18 AM.


CLUCH_CARGO #23 Posted 03 March 2017 - 01:28 AM

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View Postyeastconfection, on 25 February 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

The match maker has me frustrated. I'm farming XP to level up on my tier V Konig and tier V Omaha but I keep getting placed into games with Tier 6 and Tier 7 enemies. I'll stay "with the pack" and the opponents will still target me first before they target my tier 6/7 comrades because im an easy kill. I hardly ever survive a round and I can barely earn any XP to move up. I used to have fun playing through tier I through IV, but being paired against VI and VII makes this game frustrating and difficult. Why does match maker do this?

 

View Postyeastconfection, on 25 February 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

The match maker has me frustrated. I'm farming XP to level up on my tier V Konig and tier V Omaha but I keep getting placed into games with Tier 6 and Tier 7 enemies. I'll stay "with the pack" and the opponents will still target me first before they target my tier 6/7 comrades because im an easy kill. I hardly ever survive a round and I can barely earn any XP to move up. I used to have fun playing through tier I through IV, but being paired against VI and VII makes this game frustrating and difficult. Why does match maker do this?

 

​I use a tier 7 For Farming Exp. The payouts are good and the repair bills are nominal, 100k avg payout with 2300 to 2500 exp. Lose the tier 5 and move on.


 



 


Crucis #24 Posted 03 March 2017 - 03:22 PM

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View Postyeastconfection, on 25 February 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

View PostCrucis, on 25 February 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

 

That's the same at any tier, whether you're top or bottom tier.  Not an issue, since it's a common thing for BB's of all tiers.

 

Okay, lets go back to my original point: I'm in a tier V BB and I'm told to angle myself so how exactly does this help me when I'm up against tier VI and tier VII?

 

A Konig with angled armor can bounce plenty of higher tier BB shells.  Not all, but some.    I think that the best thing that a Konig can do in a tier 6 or 7 battle is to try to engage enemy cruisers where your smaller 12" guns will still kick plenty of cruiser butt.  But don't dismiss the ability of a Konig to brawl with even higher tier BBs (at least non-German ones).  Would a Nagato beat a Konig?  Probably, but you can sell yourself as dearly  as possible and make the enemy BB work hard to take you down.

 

 

 

 



HMS_Lollipop #25 Posted 03 March 2017 - 05:53 PM

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Yes, you are irghtView PostSeraphil, on 02 March 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

Angling is the difference between taking a glancing hit for 1000 damage or taking a 10000 damage citadel hit.  It's not a "do this and you will survive forever" tactic, but rather one to mitigate damage as much as possible.  In a previous match, I could not penetrate a New Orleans who was angled only 10 degrees perpendicular to my Scharnhorst, because his 32mm of bow armor was deflecting most of my shells.  I actually had to switch to HE to put some hurt on him before I could reposition for a better avenue of attack.

 

Yes, so very true and if only one of them is shooting at ya. The trouble is, tier 5 fresh meat brings the tier 7 BBs and CL wolfs out in packs, and its usually 3 or even 4 of the bums sending shells your way and you can only angle against one/two of them.  I'l still will be lingering in the rear, till some of the smoke settles.   Cheers~


Edited by HMS_Lollipop, 03 March 2017 - 05:55 PM.


Stieger #26 Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:57 PM

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not minimizing you post but to or for me the worst that I see in this game has to with CV I get to frustrated when a T6 CV gets in with T8 battle its brutal and a T8 CV into a T10 Brutal again WG doesnt seem to think this is a problem but yet recognized this issue with T4&5 CVs  and there's no difference except for Tiers Angling your ship applies to all ships u have a greater chance of ricochet RNG is also a factor you pen is more likely to succeed at a closer distance WG had posted a great example of this sometime ago on the login page a great guide here and Kudos to Amade  http://forum.worldof...damage-in-wows/ KEEP Trying it will come

acudaowner #27 Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:07 PM

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that's nothing wait till your 6 then you could be in matches with t 9 ships yea nothing like 1 hit pops. just think of it as it happens like many things do. Screams , fire , explosions even if they are yours are sort of fun. oh and the tears must not forget about them...

aethervox #28 Posted 08 March 2017 - 05:21 PM

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You'll get through tier 5 one way or another, OP, just persevere.

Badasu #29 Posted 27 March 2017 - 03:53 PM

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it's frustrating to barely scratch the paint on T7, yet get deleted on sight. it makes for a long grind, but getting up tiered is more workable as you progress... so hang in there

 



GTurbine #30 Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:12 AM

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The whole game is pissing me off. I can battle forever, and have millions of credits, but no hardly any XP. Carriers lay perfect lines of torpedoes that never dud and hit harder than a 16" shell. Battleship guns are less effective than cruiser guns. Especially in plunging fire, when they should be  more damaging. Carriers take more hits than battleships. Cruisers take as many hits as battleships. Destroyers are amazingly hardy. The missions are getting boring. I think I'm done.

Aorangi #31 Posted 12 April 2017 - 06:20 PM

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View PostGTurbine, on 02 April 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

The whole game is pissing me off. I can battle forever, and have millions of credits, but no hardly any XP. Carriers lay perfect lines of torpedoes that never dud and hit harder than a 16" shell. Battleship guns are less effective than cruiser guns. Especially in plunging fire, when they should be  more damaging. Carriers take more hits than battleships. Cruisers take as many hits as battleships. Destroyers are amazingly hardy. The missions are getting boring. I think I'm done.

 

I play up to tier 8's and I feel your pain and I have decided that a small hiatus is needed to just clear my mind and then come back and get back to grinding.
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Warden_Wolf #32 Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:01 PM

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Honestly, I hate to be "that guy", but I just gotta say it: learn to run your ship. I enjoyed my Konig, although I got out of it quickly because there's a dispersion nerf coming in the next patch. I also enjoyed my New York and my Kongo. The New York is really no worse than the New Mexico once you learn how to run it.

 

That said, cruisers at that tier are pretty freaking terrible. Most of them are floating citadels, although it seems to have gotten better than it used to be; I can no longer reliably one-shot most of them. It's an ugly transition, going from World War I era designs to World War II or late interwar period. However, it is also historically accurate. Every nation has ships that, for some reason, just suck. Every so often, you're going to encounter a ship you hate. You just have to power through it.

 

My current love-hate relationship is with the New Orleans class. Great guns, but grossly underarmored for tier 8. While it's basically a bigger Pensacola, the Pensacola was more competitive at tier 7 than the New Orleans is at tier 8. That doesn't mean I hate tier 8; I loved my North Carolina and Benson. It's just an awkward level for US cruisers.


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Dostovel #33 Posted 14 April 2017 - 08:38 PM

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I get up tiered more often than not in T6 ships going against teams with mostly T8s in it lol  It sucks and I definitely have to play differently and while I'm pretty damn good in the Farragut I just get a lot less XP in the high tier games because I have to be so cautious.  For BBs and cruisers with long detection, yeah it definitely kinda blows.

Murotsu #34 Posted 15 April 2017 - 03:00 AM

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I wrote on this in another thread.  What is happening here is that MM isn't set up to take into account that the ships in the game are increasing in viciousness at an exponential rate.  This becomes apparent about Tier 5.  When you get repeatedly forced into games with Tier 6 and 7 ships you get frustrated that you seem unable to do sufficient damage to take them out while they clobber you in return.  That's because your Tier 5 is simply badly out matched by the HP and firepower of the higher tier ships.

This won't end either.  In fact, the higher you go the more it will occur.  There really isn't much you can do about it.  Usually there are a few ships at each Tier that are in a "sweet spot" and can do better against higher tier ones.  But, you choose something that just isn't in one of those spots and it's nothing but a hard grind of losing or doing poorly in battle after battle because your ship really isn't competitive.

Many players who pay to play will simply buy their way around the rocks and shoals to use Navy jargon.  That's fine.  But, if you are stuck grinding one of these ships you take a hit on your win-loss rate and have to deal with the frustration of not having a good performing vessel not because you play poorly (you might but, let's assume otherwise) but because your ship simply can't stand up to the competition.



AdmiralThunder #35 Posted 15 April 2017 - 07:24 PM

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+2MM is brutal regardless of the ship you are in. I 100% agree it is no fun seeing a T7 in a T5 ship. Unfortunately, it gets worse as you move up so you may as well try and do your best and get used to it. T6 sees T8, T7 sees T9, and T8 sees T10. T5/T6 I think suffer the worst from facing a +2 MM but any tier that is forced into +2MM does really.

 

When you find yourself as bottom tier it is daunting no doubt. If you get really screwed over by MM and find yourself the only low tier ship vs all +1/+2 it is down right abysmal. That happens to me a LOT in my T5/T6 ships. Can't count the times I have been the only T5/T6 vs all higher tiers. Even in BB's it is tough. When I am in my T6 BB's( Fuso, Bayern, and New Mexico )and I am the only T6 vs all T7/T8 Cruisers and T8 BB's I want to exit to port even though I am in a BB. As good as those BB's are they are NO MATCH for T8 Bismarck's, North Carolina's, and Amagi's. They even are outclassed pretty sgnificantly by the T7 BB's. If I am in one of my T6 Cruisers( Leander, Cleveland, Aoba )and gets tuck with a similar situation man it just flat out sucks. I sit there saying to myself what the heck is WG thinking doing this to us???

 

T5/T6 seem to face the most uptiering from what I can see though. I have been high tier or only facing +1 MM a lot more in my T7 ships. +1 MM though can be handled by most ships and is what MM "SHOULD" be standard from T3+. This +2 crap needs to go or at least be made an option for those who worry so much over queue times.

 

All I can say is to keep at it and do your best. We all go through it. Just one of those things that is broken with the game that WG flat out refuses to change or admit to despite the majority of players disliking +2 MM. If you are having trouble in Random matches try playing some Co-op with the ships to get better acquainted with playing them then go back and try again. There is nothing you can do about being targeted early. Another sorry sad fact of the +2MM is seal clubbing. People with the higher tier ships are generally better players as they have been at it longer not to mention their ship itself is much better. They know when they are in a T7 ship that T5 ships are just easy prey so they will try and take you out 1st. Again, we all have gone through it.

 

Best of luck and don't give up!


Edited by AdmiralThunder, 15 April 2017 - 07:29 PM.


AdmiralThunder #36 Posted 15 April 2017 - 07:34 PM

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View Postacudaowner, on 08 March 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

that's nothing wait till your 6 then you could be in matches with t 9 ships yea nothing like 1 hit pops. just think of it as it happens like many things do. Screams , fire , explosions even if they are yours are sort of fun. oh and the tears must not forget about them...

 

​You have a typo. T6 does not see T9. Don't scare the poor OP. LOL

 

T6  will only see up to T8( unless dragged into a higher tier match due to being in a division ).



Rusty_S85 #37 Posted 15 April 2017 - 11:52 PM

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View PostHMS_Lollipop, on 02 March 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

 

It doesn't help, it like the "prepare for water landing/crash" positions they have passengers assume, as the jetliner slams into the ocean at 600mph. Its just something to do before the impending doom. When tier 8 BBs are luring on the seas I've sailed my beloved Texas into. I will linger in the rear, looking for an soft spot in the enemy line and waiting for the tier 8 ships to slap each other silly, before moving up to engage. It may not sound like an overly honorable, "Damn the torpedo full steam ahead!" type of tactic.  But it is a valid tactic, employed by navies though the ages to allow older ships "in this case tier 5 ships" to contribute a maxim effort without becoming early battle cannon fodder.

Then you deal with team members that want to whine about you being a wall hugger or being scared and not contributing.  Its a no win situation.  That's why I don't play my Texas as much as I used to.  I am tired of being put up against T6 and T7 ships all the time.  I am singled out every time by groups cause I am the slowest and have the shortest range of main guns.  So I find myself more times than not getting pummeled by multiple ships that I cant even fire on yet.  Really think T5 needs to be a T5 only match for ships like this.  Or take and drop Texas and New York down to T4.  Sure you can do good against T6 and T7 ships in a New York class battleship but this is a game and it should be fun, it quickly loses its charm for being fun when you find yourself in match after match being bottom tier and everyone focus fires on you.

 

View PostWarden_Wolf, on 13 April 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Honestly, I hate to be "that guy", but I just gotta say it: learn to run your ship. I enjoyed my Konig, although I got out of it quickly because there's a dispersion nerf coming in the next patch. I also enjoyed my New York and my Kongo. The New York is really no worse than the New Mexico once you learn how to run it.

 

That said, cruisers at that tier are pretty freaking terrible. Most of them are floating citadels, although it seems to have gotten better than it used to be; I can no longer reliably one-shot most of them. It's an ugly transition, going from World War I era designs to World War II or late interwar period. However, it is also historically accurate. Every nation has ships that, for some reason, just suck. Every so often, you're going to encounter a ship you hate. You just have to power through it.

 

My current love-hate relationship is with the New Orleans class. Great guns, but grossly underarmored for tier 8. While it's basically a bigger Pensacola, the Pensacola was more competitive at tier 7 than the New Orleans is at tier 8. That doesn't mean I hate tier 8; I loved my North Carolina and Benson. It's just an awkward level for US cruisers.

 

The New York like the Texas is a good ship, but the main draw back at least for Texas is that she can not elevate her guns as high so the range is quite a bit shorter for Texas.  You find yourself getting focus fired by multiple ships that can hit you but you cant hit them.  I can understand for a ship like New York you can just power through it and get rid of her but for a premium ship something needs to be done as people bought Texas for any number of reasons and I believe they should be able to use the ships they purchased without being forced to not use it because of horrible match making.

 



Malamute_Kid #38 Posted 19 April 2017 - 03:49 PM

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I agree 100%.  T5 is not fun at all.  As has been said already, Certain BB's fare better and DD's aren't too bad as long as there's not a lot of radar around although I think that's probably the same at any tier. If you are in a cruiser though, forget about it.  I ran all the cruiser lines up to  T6 and 2 to T7 and it completely wrecked me with regard to grinding.  I just don't do it any more.  I still play certain T6 and T7 ships like Budyonny or Yorck but as for buckling down and grinding, I'm done.    I was told lit gets better once you push through T5  and this may just be my own personal experience, but it didn't for me.  I think it's not just that we face ships 2 tiers higher but is also the fact that a almost all tiers CA/CL's are the first to get focused and don't have the kind of built in survivability that DD's and BB's have.  That's just the way the game is built though and is something that will always have to be dealt with.  Combine that with being down 2 tiers and , well, you already know how that goes. 

 

My solution?  I play a lot of T4 games.  Th ships are all pretty fun across the board.  Balance is good between the lines, ships have real diversity in their characteristics and the mix of newbies and seal clubbers can make for some hilarious games.  It my sweet spot in the game for fun an It keeps me playing not only T4, but higher tiers as well..


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Marine_Diesel #39 Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:04 AM

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Tier 6 is worse, except for Fuso.
Tier 5 Konig and Tier 7 Scharnhorst are my favorite 'go have fun' ships. Bayern would be good if the ship's gun got an AP pen buff. Only 8 of them/reload @ 30 secs, it's bad. But you can at least citadel cruisers with ease, provided they don't overpen (Oh yeah, Bayern 'Projectile detonator' time is .033 sec, which means when you 'get in close' you'll very likely overpen. And when you're too far away you won't pen at all.)

Kongo's AP also has .033 detonator time. But Kongo's shells have a little less velocity. Yet Kongo's AP has more pen at 16km than Bayern's AP at 14km. Kongo's AP also has 200 higher Krupp value. Kongo has the guns of a proper battleship, even though Kongo is a battlecruiser.

Advice: Play the Kongo...or Konig. Whichever suits you. If moving up free exp past the Bayern and play Gneisenau and/or buy Scharnhorst. The next ship, Bismarck, is a great(if not the best) ship in the line.

Edited by Marine_Diesel, 03 May 2017 - 11:14 AM.





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