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How does a Cruiser counter a Destroyer? Srsly


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centarina #21 Posted 25 February 2017 - 05:28 AM

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really depends on ships and tier.    most of it is just from  having good situation awareness and   taking advantage of DD mistakes.     I can usually wreck DD with my cruisers    all throughout the tiers unless you have really good DD player .They usually leave me alone unless they can pack attack.     if you don't have good situation awareness, you won't do well :D

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BearlyHereBear #22 Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:26 PM

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View PostShekelsteingoldberg, on 22 February 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

 Also, why do people use DD, CC, CW, SS when discussing them? Why the double letter? 

It also helps during battle to shorten the time you're typing instead of driving.


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Sotaudi #23 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:28 AM

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View PostReddNekk, on 24 February 2017 - 12:00 AM, said:

 

Hitting a fast moving and evading DD with a Atlanta aint as easy as some folks think. With the orbital shell trajectory, consistent hits at any range over 8km on a DD is damn hard. However, once you get up close and personal, you can chop 'em up most rickey tik. The Nurnberg is excellent for converting DDs into Submarines at longer ranges. The Nurnberg's nine 6" guns have a much flatter trajectory, a 6 second reload time, (only one second longer than Atlanta's) and hit harder.

 

The Commander's skill, "Basic Firing Training," or BFT, decreases the reload time on main guns "up to 139mm" by 10%.  It also increases Anti-Aircraft (AA) battery's damage per second by 20%.  The Atlanta is an AA cruiser with 127mm (5") main battery guns, so it is unlikely you will face many Atlantas not running this skill.  That puts the Atlanta reload at 4.5 seconds, not 5.  Six inch guns are in the 203mm range, and are unaffected by the reload increase of this skill.  Thus, you are looking at 6 seconds for the Nurnberg versus a more realistic 4.5 second reload for the Atlanta.  That is a 25% faster reload.


 

You also have to take into account that the Atlanta is firing 56% more guns per volley at that faster rate of fire.   And the "harder hitting" part is largely negated by the target.  DDs have no citadels, so no ship in the game can hit one for max listed shell damage.  Likewise, DDs have no armor to speak of, so those 6" guns firing 3900 max damage AP will be more likely to over pen for only 390 damage.  This is why HE is the preferred ammo against DDs.  It is less likely to over pen, it can start fires, and even a zero damage hit can damage or knockout modules.  Given that the Atlanta HE does 1800 max damage vs. the Nurnberg HE 1700 max damage, the fact that the Nurnberg's guns are bigger is largely negated when talking about the target in question.


 

That is not to say that your basic point is wrong.  Having to adjust your firing solution to avoid the moon's orbit is a definite disadvantage.  Thus, the Nurnberg has a distinct advantage at longer ranges due to the flatter trajectory and shorter flight time making it harder for the target to evade shots because shots that miss will do zero damage, and you will definitely miss much more at long range with the Atlanta.



HMCS_Devilfish #24 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:41 AM

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My V Murmansk Cruiser has accurate 152mm guns, 7 second fast reloads, fast turrets,so if your 8 k or closer and a DD, your in trouble,it has the best rudder shift in game for Cruisers making it turn fast to avoid torps also has Hydro to extend torpedo detection range, when a DD is targeting me and headed my way I also know that when he turns broadside to me, they just launched there Torps, for higher tiers radar equipped ships more guns come into play

Edited by HMCS_Devilfish, 01 March 2017 - 02:43 AM.


Sotaudi #25 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:50 AM

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The question was largely answered, but the Atlanta was not a give away.  It is, in fact, one of the oldest premium ships in the game having been even in Closed Beta.


 

Premium ships can be available on the tech tree for gold doubloons (which means you will need to have an open port slot), or you can get them packaged with a port slot and often other things (premium time, signal flags, credits, etc.) from the Premium shop.  The overall package deal from the Premium shop will usually cost more than purchasing just the ship alone off of the tech tree, but you don't need to have an open port slot buying it from the Premium shop, and you don't get the extras buying just the ship it from the tech tree.


 

You don't see the Atlanta right now in either the Tech tree or the Premium shop because they periodically cycle different ships in and out of both.  This is to keep ships from being expected to always be available and to create a sense of newness when they are reintroduced for purchase.  The Atlanta actually was only recently removed from both the Tech tree and the Premium shop.  Until then, it had been available since the game went live.  It needed a vacation.  It will eventually come back on special and/or become a fixture in one or both again.



SeaGladius #26 Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:42 AM

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ActuallyView PostBURN_Miner, on 23 February 2017 - 06:28 AM, said:

The Match Making system in case you didn't know is a 2 Tier system, so 2 tiers up and 2 Tiers down with some minor exceptions. The exceptions being Tier 4 and divisions. Tier 4 won't see anything higher than a Tier 5 unless they are divisioned with a Tier 5 player, at which point they could see higher. Divisions can only be 3 people and can only division with players within 1 Tier of their own Tier, IE if I am a Tier 6, I can only division with people in Tiers 5 or 7, so with that, I might see a Tier 4 if I division with a Tier 5 or I may see a Tier 9 if I division with a Tier 7.

 

 

 

Actually, MM uses the tier of the highest tier ship in a division when doing its thing.  So a Tier 6 divisioned up with a Tier 5 would never see Tier 4.  The Tier 5 ship would potentially find itself in a Tier 8 game.  



icepac_hero #27 Posted 01 March 2017 - 09:34 PM

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Cruiser DO NOT counter DD anymore that they counter planes.


What Cruiser do is establish a defensive perimeter where DD and / or planes are quite unwelcome.

 

Any Cruiser trying to run down a competent DD that is 10+ km away will not be successful.

 

However if a DD tries to attack an area defended by a Cruiser then that DD will be in a world of hurt.



SgtSullyC3 #28 Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:49 AM

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Cruisers are DD killers because they have powerful armament, but unlike Battleships the reloads are short enough to make it viable to shoot at such a small target. At a distance, it's hard to kill a DD... With anything. But up close. That's when the tables turn. Once I took down a two-man division in their Leningrad's with my Cleveland singlehandedly when they got too close. Fast firing guns that hit hard but don't have a ten year reload. The idea is that with a cruiser, you can kill a DD before he gets back into concealment. With a battleship, it's hard to hit destroyers, and if you miss, you have a thirty second reload.

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Tzarevitch #29 Posted 03 March 2017 - 08:37 PM

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View PostShekelsteingoldberg, on 23 February 2017 - 12:56 AM, said:

I'm somewhat new to the game. I've been playing destroyers for the most part. What is it about the Cruiser that it supposedly counters the destroyers? The Destroyers can see the cruiser first and disengage. I don't get it. Can someone please explain all the reasons why it's a destroyer killer?

 

Also, why do people use DD, CC, CW, SS when discussing them? Why the double letter?

 

Thanks all!

 

​Bear in mind, "counter" doesn't necessarily mean "kill." If your presence drives the DD out of effective range of your carriers or BBs, he is countered. As people have pointed out, cruisers are faster than BBs, and more agile. They can dodge torpedoes better than BBs, their guns track DDs better, their dispersion is lower so they are much less likely to miss a DD, and their guns don't completely overpen DDs. Many cruisers also are hard to spot and carry spotter planes, radar or hydrophones.

 

The safe thing for DDs to do if a cruiser is coming looking for them is to fall back. I can tell you that most of them don't do that though. They came a long way to get to the CV or BB you are protecting and they want the kill. So most of them keep coming or keep trying to slip past you. Then they make a mistake and get spotted. That's how a 33knot cruiser kills a 38knot DD. It's like WWII sub hunting. If you are facing a really good, stealthy DD driver, likely the best you will get is driving him off a valuable target by you being in the way. You probably won't find him on your own but you've made him expend a lot of time and effort to try to get past you and hopefully he'll go away or make a mistake and you can catch him.  If all you do is make him go away or stalemate him at a distance while the BB or CV you are protecting continues to contribute to your team you still win.



icepac_hero #30 Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:03 PM

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View PostTzarevitch, on 03 March 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

 

​Bear in mind, "counter" doesn't necessarily mean "kill." If your presence drives the DD out of effective range of your carriers or BBs, he is countered. As people have pointed out, cruisers are faster than BBs, and more agile. They can dodge torpedoes better than BBs, their guns track DDs better, their dispersion is lower so they are much less likely to miss a DD, and their guns don't completely overpen DDs. Many cruisers also are hard to spot and carry spotter planes, radar or hydrophones.

 

The safe thing for DDs to do if a cruiser is coming looking for them is to fall back. I can tell you that most of them don't do that though. They came a long way to get to the CV or BB you are protecting and they want the kill. So most of them keep coming or keep trying to slip past you. Then they make a mistake and get spotted. That's how a 33knot cruiser kills a 38knot DD. It's like WWII sub hunting. If you are facing a really good, stealthy DD driver, likely the best you will get is driving him off a valuable target by you being in the way. You probably won't find him on your own but you've made him expend a lot of time and effort to try to get past you and hopefully he'll go away or make a mistake and you can catch him.  If all you do is make him go away or stalemate him at a distance while the BB or CV you are protecting continues to contribute to your team you still win.

 

2 things is that unless you know where said DD is, he can still launch torp at both you and the BB you are protecting and then run away (assuming stealth torper here).

Second, If you pop radar / hydro without being certain a DD is near then you lose a charge AND you are now on countdown for the next few mins at which point a DD can safely come within 7 or less km of you and launch torps...

 

Also, if the DD is shadowed by Cruisers / BB, all he has to do is light you up so that his pals can take you down and then he has free access to your BB...



centarina #31 Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:22 AM

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Chapayev can really counter DD with its rapid firing guns,   sonar and  radar.  radar is especially effective earlier in the match in cap contest where your team can focus down a ship.     if you do that once,  evenif they survive, they will go look else where.    at midtier, you are looking for mistakes.

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Tzarevitch #32 Posted 05 March 2017 - 05:47 AM

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View Posticepac_hero, on 03 March 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

2 things is that unless you know where said DD is, he can still launch torp at both you and the BB you are protecting and then run away (assuming stealth torper here).

Second, If you pop radar / hydro without being certain a DD is near then you lose a charge AND you are now on countdown for the next few mins at which point a DD can safely come within 7 or less km of you and launch torps...

 

Also, if the DD is shadowed by Cruisers / BB, all he has to do is light you up so that his pals can take you down and then he has free access to your BB...

 

​Well, yeah. It all presupposes that you have at least some idea what arc to find him. If you have no idea there isn't anything you can do except wait for him to attack. As for other supporting ships,  presumably the BB or CV you are screening is actually doing something to support you as well. If he isn't at least trying then I'm not going to screen him. IT also depends a lot on what ship you are in and what is supporting the DD. 

icepac_hero #33 Posted 07 March 2017 - 07:19 PM

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View PostTzarevitch, on 05 March 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

 

​Well, yeah. It all presupposes that you have at least some idea what arc to find him. If you have no idea there isn't anything you can do except wait for him to attack. As for other supporting ships,  presumably the BB or CV you are screening is actually doing something to support you as well. If he isn't at least trying then I'm not going to screen him. IT also depends a lot on what ship you are in and what is supporting the DD. 

Absolutely agree.

The point I was trying to make tho is that the DD counter is actually the CV (and more accurently, CV planes)



vonluckner #34 Posted 07 March 2017 - 09:03 PM

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Cruisers are not hard counters to DDs just like they are not hard counters to CVs.

However, most DDs risk getting caught out by radar if you aggressively take cover near cap- in ranked radaring a DD smoked on cap almost always ends in a dead DD as first blood.

Likewise you can use your intuition blind radaring DDs trying to stealth torp (RDF, and assessing the terrain around you vs. your concealment range)- less effective but it makes DD life uncomfortable for sure. If they're close enough to slam you with a lethal torp wave they're usually close enough to radar, and even if you don't kill them they'll be low enough that they can no longer contest caps safely or risk getting caught again.

Non-radar cruisers have their own advantages, with very high practical damage outputs from range, stealth, or smoke.

Generally if you're getting messed up by DDs as a cruiser it's because you're putting yourself out of position.


 





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