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How does a Cruiser counter a Destroyer? Srsly


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Shekelsteingoldberg #1 Posted 23 February 2017 - 05:56 AM

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I'm somewhat new to the game. I've been playing destroyers for the most part. What is it about the Cruiser that it supposedly counters the destroyers? The Destroyers can see the cruiser first and disengage. I don't get it. Can someone please explain all the reasons why it's a destroyer killer?

 

Also, why do people use DD, CC, CW, SS when discussing them? Why the double letter?

 

Thanks all!



tcbaker777 #2 Posted 23 February 2017 - 05:58 AM

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Rate of fire, dd is navy classification for destroyer, bb for battleship, CL for light cruiser, CA for heavy cruiser, and CV for aircraft carrier, hope this helps, also, heavy cruisers are the ones with 203mm guns and higher

Edited by tcbaker777, 23 February 2017 - 06:01 AM.

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Unabletony #3 Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:00 AM

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A cruiser has radar and hydro to counter a DD attack. Their guns are designed to fire faster then a BB but still deliver some devastating blows.

 

The terms are used in navies.

DD= Destroyer

CA= Armored Cruiser

CL= Light Cruiser

BB= Battleship

CV= Aircraft Carrier.


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Lunarrise #4 Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:03 AM

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Cruisers are also usually have faster rudders and tighter turns than battleships, making them less vulnerable to torpedo attacks or long-range gunnery.

ckupf #5 Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:12 AM

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View PostShekelsteingoldberg, on 23 February 2017 - 05:56 AM, said:

I'm somewhat new to the game. I've been playing destroyers for the most part. What is it about the Cruiser that it supposedly counters the destroyers? The Destroyers can see the cruiser first and disengage. I don't get it. Can someone please explain all the reasons why it's a destroyer killer?

 

Also, why do people use DD, CC, CW, SS when discussing them? Why the double letter?

 

Thanks all!

 

Doubling is for clarity.

 

DD is destroyer, CA is armored or heavy cruiser, CL is light or scout cruiser, SS was a paramilitary Nazi organization, CV is an aircraft carrier, CVL is a light or escort aircraft carrier, CC is a rarely used term for battlecruisers which are usually BC (or even rarer CB), BB is a battleship.

 

Cruisers can counter destroyers through fast ROF and better guns, they are agile enough to dodge torps and dd fire at range, they can often surprise DDs and effectively charge smoke and hiding spots using hydro and radar. Decent concealment means that the destroyers *might* not know they are coming. My Minotaur actually has better concealment than non-stealth Khabs, My Belfast is equal to non-stealth Kievs I believe.



RedSeaBear #6 Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:13 AM

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Wait till you start seeing higher tier cruisers and you will understand how a Cruiser can and will counter a destroyer.

Mostly in the low tiers it comes down to having decent maneuverability and fast firing guns. But having the skills to know where a destroyer is and how to ambush them is something that takes learning the game and peoples habits.

 


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GhostSwordsman #7 Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:24 AM

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View Postckupf, on 23 February 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

 

Doubling is for clarity.

 

DD is destroyer, CA is armored or heavy cruiser, CL is light or scout cruiser, SS was a paramilitary Nazi organization, CV is an aircraft carrier, CVL is a light or escort aircraft carrier, CC is a rarely used term for battlecruisers which are usually BC (or even rarer CB), BB is a battleship.

 

Cruisers can counter destroyers through fast ROF and better guns, they are agile enough to dodge torps and dd fire at range, they can often surprise DDs and effectively charge smoke and hiding spots using hydro and radar. Decent concealment means that the destroyers *might* not know they are coming. My Minotaur actually has better concealment than non-stealth Khabs, My Belfast is equal to non-stealth Kievs I believe.

 

SS, I believe, is the naval/hull designation for submarine.


Edited by GhostSwordsman, 23 February 2017 - 06:32 AM.

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BURN_Miner #8 Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:28 AM

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@OP

 

While all of the above advice is correct (posts 1-6 at the time of my post), as you progress you will find that indeed a BB (Battleship), no matter what Tier can in fact counter a DD (Destroyer) or a CA/CL (Armored Cruiser or Light Cruiser) can counter a BB, etc. In other words, as you get better and get a feel for the game, so long as you don't allow yourself to become overwhelmed by stereotypes or the "Paper/Rock/Scissors" mentality, each ship in the game given the Match Making system can kill any other ship depending on the players skill.

 

The Match Making system in case you didn't know is a 2 Tier system, so 2 tiers up and 2 Tiers down with some minor exceptions. The exceptions being Tier 4 and divisions. Tier 4 won't see anything higher than a Tier 5 unless they are divisioned with a Tier 5 player, at which point they could see higher. Divisions can only be 3 people and can only division with players within 1 Tier of their own Tier, IE if I am a Tier 6, I can only division with people in Tiers 5 or 7, so with that, I might see a Tier 4 if I division with a Tier 5 or I may see a Tier 9 if I division with a Tier 7.

 

 


 

 

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Doomlock #9 Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:58 AM

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View PostGhostSwordsman, on 23 February 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

 

SS, I believe, is the naval/hull designation for submarine.

 

You are correct. SS=submarine. SSN=nuclear attack submarine. SSBN=ballistic missile nuclear submarine.


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BladedPheonix #10 Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:06 AM

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View Postckupf, on 23 February 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

 

Doubling is for clarity.

 

DD is destroyer, CA is armored or heavy cruiser, CL is light or scout cruiser, SS was a paramilitary Nazi organization, CV is an aircraft carrier, CVL is a light or escort aircraft carrier, CC is a rarely used term for battlecruisers which are usually BC (or even rarer CB), BB is a battleship.

 

Cruisers can counter destroyers through fast ROF and better guns, they are agile enough to dodge torps and dd fire at range, they can often surprise DDs and effectively charge smoke and hiding spots using hydro and radar. Decent concealment means that the destroyers *might* not know they are coming. My Minotaur actually has better concealment than non-stealth Khabs, My Belfast is equal to non-stealth Kievs I believe.

 

wrong!!! SS was for designating submarines!:read_fish:

Shekelsteingoldberg #11 Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:26 AM

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View Posttcbaker777, on 23 February 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

Rate of fire, dd is navy classification for destroyer, bb for battleship, CL for light cruiser, CA for heavy cruiser, and CV for aircraft carrier, hope this helps, also, heavy cruisers are the ones with 203mm guns and higher

 

Yes, it does help. Thanks to you and the others clarifying the info. I now understand the Cruisers' special abilities are helping it to counter the DD.

 



MrDeaf #12 Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:38 AM

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View PostUnabletony, on 23 February 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

A cruiser has radar and hydro to counter a DD attack. Their guns are designed to fire faster then a BB but still deliver some devastating blows.

 

 

Only if you are...

 

1. German Cruiser running Hydro

2. At T7. Atlanta, Indianapolis or Belfast

3. T8 and above, USN, RN or Soviet Cruiser

 

IJN cruisers get weak hydro and no radar. The only things they get are concealment and speed, which are best used by letting a friendly DD do the spotting work.


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Sethanas #13 Posted 23 February 2017 - 11:05 AM

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First time you run into an Atlanta with your DD you will no longer be asking this question XD

crzyhawk #14 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:31 PM

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View PostGhostSwordsman, on 23 February 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

 

SS, I believe, is the naval/hull designation for submarine.

 

And they are about as welcome as nazis.

 

As far as the original question, cruisers, particularly light cruisers generally have rapid fire guns (and lots of them) that are more likely score repeated hits on destroyer sized targets.  They also often have radar and/or hydro acoustic search which can help detected hidden destroyers and torpedoes.  At low tiers when new players don't know how to shoot very well destroyers live a pretty good life because the cruisers players struggle to hit them.  In the higher tiers when players gain experience, that tends to change, and light cruisers can make DD lives very very miserable.

 



colm_saunders #15 Posted 23 February 2017 - 05:03 PM

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My Atlanta is a DD shredder. High rate of fire with radar is a killer combination. If you see an Atlanta - run!
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Shekelsteingoldberg #16 Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:19 AM

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View Postcolm_saunders, on 23 February 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

My Atlanta is a DD shredder. High rate of fire with radar is a killer combination. If you see an Atlanta - run!

 

An Atlanta must have been some Beta giveaway rare tank, yes?

 

edit: I can't imagine WG ever giving away something above tier 3 for free, but I don't see it in the tech trees.


Edited by Shekelsteingoldberg, 24 February 2017 - 04:20 AM.


MrDeaf #17 Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:24 AM

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Atlanta was in the premium shop: https://na.wargaming...shop/wows/main/

for a long time. WG only recently removed it.

 

Honestly, Atlanta is not a scary ship, unless you run into it at 8km and head on.

It's guns, while having amazing DPM, also have a very high skill floor to aim correctly and makes for easy dodging on the receiving end, so long as you don't run into it at 8km, head on.

 

Right now, all the rage is Belfast. DDs absolutely loath Belfast being on the red team, and rightfully so.

It has excellent concealment and a tool set that can only be described as a DD killer ship.

It's skill floor is substantially less than Atlanta, which makes it easier to use. It's skill floor is also decently high, which allows it to scale well with player skill.


Edited by MrDeaf, 24 February 2017 - 07:25 AM.

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ReddNekk #18 Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:00 AM

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View PostSethanas, on 23 February 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

First time you run into an Atlanta with your DD you will no longer be asking this question XD

 

Hitting a fast moving and evading DD with a Atlanta aint as easy as some folks think. With the orbital shell trajectory, consistent hits at any range over 8km on a DD is damn hard. However, once you get up close and personal, you can chop 'em up most rickey tik. The Nurnberg is excellent for converting DDs into Submarines at longer ranges. The Nurnberg's nine 6" guns have a much flatter trajectory, a 6 second reload time, (only one second longer than Atlanta's) and hit harder.

Edited by ReddNekk, 24 February 2017 - 08:01 AM.

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templar627 #19 Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:18 AM

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Generally they're supposed to counter DDs thru high fire rates but with bigger guns. The guns also have flatter arcs which allow them to engage dds with better shots than the dds can back. Although there are exceptions to this rule with some dds have cruiser arcs and some cruisers having dd arcs. Also, cruisers all have hydro which helps with fighting torps and finding dds in smoke. With much higher hit point pools and thicker armor, unless the dd gets torps off cruisers win gunfights with dds everytime. 

 



Sethanas #20 Posted 24 February 2017 - 11:09 AM

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View PostReddNekk, on 24 February 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

 

Hitting a fast moving and evading DD with a Atlanta aint as easy as some folks think. With the orbital shell trajectory, consistent hits at any range over 8km on a DD is damn hard. However, once you get up close and personal, you can chop 'em up most rickey tik. The Nurnberg is excellent for converting DDs into Submarines at longer ranges. The Nurnberg's nine 6" guns have a much flatter trajectory, a 6 second reload time, (only one second longer than Atlanta's) and hit harder.


Nurnberg was a nice ship, just the A-XY Turret distribution that I didn't find to be all that effective, What the Atlanta lacks in Shell trajectory has to be made up with experience for sure, the travel time can be quite daunting at first.

 

I have somewhere around 200 games in the Atlanta, It's shell trajectory is actually not far off what you'd expect from American dds at the tier so while it may take some time to get a feel from them it is a skill set that has other uses. My Des Moines captain is many times better than my UK captain so I've been using the Atlanta more for ranked this season.

Either way you're generally looking for the cruisers with undersized guns if you want to get the most effective DD killers; Atlanta (127mm), Belfast (152mm), Fiji (152mm) and Shchors (152mm) are pretty much the go to DD killers at tier 7 (Most others get 203mms); High rate of fire, large count of guns and some combination or hydro/radar/smoke tends to be very effective.




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