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Tactics/Decisons That (Pretty Much) Never Work


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Herr_Reitz #21 Posted 24 February 2017 - 01:51 PM

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300 point lead, less than 2 minutes remaining in match, 2 enemy ships to 1 green ship. "RUN! JUST STAY ALIVE". 

 

Pulls a Notser, runs into the biggest island on the map. OR. Attacks and dies. 



Von_Sharer #22 Posted 24 February 2017 - 05:31 PM

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View PostLegendary_Typo, on 17 February 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

Crossing the T.

 


TOTALLY disagree.  This must be the thought of BB drivers who are afraid to commit to close-in battle or getting their paint scratched, or worse, try it with only a smidgen of red left on their damage indicator- which thoroughly sucks for the team.

Crossing the T even in this game is viable and many times makes the difference between winning or loosing the fight.  The victim can only fire the forward guns (or rear if you're lucky enough to cross the T astern) while ALL your mains plus secondaries on that side are raking him.  You can always argue that "some" of the shells aren't hitting or that "some" are deflecting, but that really doesn't matter. You will damage him with every hit and you'll hit him a lot more than he'll hit you. Even if you take a citadel hit in the process, you have an advantage.  I've proven it time and time again.  You may take most of what he throws at you, but that's a fraction of all his fire power; and you will NOT take more than what you dish out (unless you're a bad aim or have horrible dispersion, but those are quirks you can improve on).  You will hit him twice as hard and take him down much faster.  While the advantage isn't really as apparent when crossing the T of a Dunkerque, if that T is crossed astern of him, or at close range, BBs will have an advantage, some significant.  In co-op games where enemy ships come at you in a line, I've lined up and crossed the T with two or three BBs and we took the enemy ships down in 30 seconds (done this a few times).  It works just as well in Random battles - even better.   Occasionally there may be a lucky shot that puts you at disadvantage or even takes your ship out entirely ... it's not a perfect tactic (nothing is); but even nose to nose, someone will eventually, if not both, become broadside to the other.  If the nose-to-nose part of the fight didn't go so well for you, it will be more dangerous at that point no matter which position you're in; and you'll be fully committed by that point in the battle. 

Whether in co-op, random, or any battle, my motto is if you're gonna get in close, cross the T and make ALL your firepower count while limiting the enemy's.

Granted though, you kind of have a tiger by the tail if you try this against a BB with torpedoes; but I've done that more than once as well and won the fight (lost a few of those as well - what an eye opener that was).

Sabot_100 #23 Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:39 PM

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View PostVon_Sharer, on 24 February 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

TOTALLY disagree.  This must be the thought of BB drivers who are afraid to commit to close-in battle or getting their paint scratched, or worse, try it with only a smidgen of red left on their damage indicator- which thoroughly sucks for the team.

 

If you have a big ship advantage crossing the T might work due to volume of fire (especially firing HE). But game mechanics dictate that at least half your shots fired will miss (RNG) or bounce vs a bow-on target so your extra guns may not get you much but at the same time you have exposed your broadside to citadels making the fewer shots from the bow-on ship hit more and count more. IRL the crossed line of ships behind the lead ship cannot fire any guns because they might hit the ship ahead AND they can't see the target through the ship ahead. That second limitation is removed by game spotting mechanics.

Legendary_Typo #24 Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:49 PM

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View PostVon_Sharer, on 24 February 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

 


TOTALLY disagree.  This must be the thought of BB drivers who are afraid to commit to close-in battle or getting their paint scratched, or worse, try it with only a smidgen of red left on their damage indicator- which thoroughly sucks for the team.

Crossing the T even in this game is viable and many times makes the difference between winning or loosing the fight.  The victim can only fire the forward guns (or rear if you're lucky enough to cross the T astern) while ALL your mains plus secondaries on that side are raking him.  You can always argue that "some" of the shells aren't hitting or that "some" are deflecting, but that really doesn't matter. You will damage him with every hit and you'll hit him a lot more than he'll hit you. Even if you take a citadel hit in the process, you have an advantage.  I've proven it time and time again.  You may take most of what he throws at you, but that's a fraction of all his fire power; and you will NOT take more than what you dish out (unless you're a bad aim or have horrible dispersion, but those are quirks you can improve on).  You will hit him twice as hard and take him down much faster.  While the advantage isn't really as apparent when crossing the T of a Dunkerque, if that T is crossed astern of him, or at close range, BBs will have an advantage, some significant.  In co-op games where enemy ships come at you in a line, I've lined up and crossed the T with two or three BBs and we took the enemy ships down in 30 seconds (done this a few times).  It works just as well in Random battles - even better.   Occasionally there may be a lucky shot that puts you at disadvantage or even takes your ship out entirely ... it's not a perfect tactic (nothing is); but even nose to nose, someone will eventually, if not both, become broadside to the other.  If the nose-to-nose part of the fight didn't go so well for you, it will be more dangerous at that point no matter which position you're in; and you'll be fully committed by that point in the battle. 

Whether in co-op, random, or any battle, my motto is if you're gonna get in close, cross the T and make ALL your firepower count while limiting the enemy's.

Granted though, you kind of have a tiger by the tail if you try this against a BB with torpedoes; but I've done that more than once as well and won the fight (lost a few of those as well - what an eye opener that was).

 

Sure, you're firing all your guns, but since the dispersion in game tends to spread shells out horizontally, I can guarantee that you'll be hitting about as much shells as the person you're crossing. Not to mention, they still have around 50% of their firepower, all of which has a good chance to citadel. While you 100% firepower has a pretty small chance of citadeling because the angle they're at.

 

Take two ships with four turrets, three guns each. Citadel damage is 7,500 a shot, and hp is 75,000. One of them is crossing the T of the other. The person crossing can fire 12 shells, sure, but they all do 0 or 750 hp in damage (bounce, or overpen). The guy being crossed can fire six shells, doing 2,500 or 7,500 each.

Maybe I'm bad at math, but I believe 75,000/(2,500*6) < 75,000/(750*12).

 

Can crossing the T work? Yes. But from my own, and some other's experience, it won't work most of the time.


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Wingslinger #25 Posted 28 February 2017 - 02:58 PM

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Hmmm...crossing the T sure worked well for Horatio Hornblower.

Sabot_100 #26 Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:20 AM

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View PostWingslinger, on 28 February 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Hmmm...crossing the T sure worked well for Horatio Hornblower.
 

 

Hornblower wasn't dealing with WGs reality rules. IRL the broadside ship usually wins due to factors mentioned above. In game, not so much. One change WG could make would be to have the dispersion be more vertical than it is now. This would land more shells on a bow-on target and less on a broadside target.

monarch09 #27 Posted 02 March 2017 - 05:51 AM

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New to WOW, but what I see most is NO PLAN. Especially in random, some times even in ranked.

It seems that everyone expects mind readers for every situation. True, no plan survives initial contact with the enemy, but during the first few salvos, an initial plan will determine the game in most circumstances. 

First initial salvos and everyone runs as self survival mode initiates. No team mentality generally survives the initial contact. The no plan fleet ships generally pair off, form mini groupings and try to survive. The fleet with the plan, drives the "point of the spear" in deeper and splits the opponents groupings even more, then pick of stragglers.

Lone Wolfs - leave the pack, claim stupidity in team mentality, then end up crying for help as they die alone. 

Inability to get a fleet mentality, ie more ships sailing together means more projectiles on any one target, and the faster death of that target.



dust340man #28 Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:33 AM

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View PostMrEndeavour, on 17 February 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

Sailing down the straight on "Two Brothers."

 

It works if you wait till about half way thru the battle. I went down the middle after an allied Molotov kamikazed the middle and I parked my Colorado bow on in the entrance applying added pressure to the enemy ships in the cap zone & in the range of my front guns. Luckily no enemy ships with torps were in range of me. 

American ships: St. Louis, Phoenix, Pensacola, New York, Texas, Colorado, Wickes, Farragut, Mahan, Sims       Russian ships: Orlan, Bogatyr, Svetlana, Murmansk, Molotov, Derzki, Gnevny, Ognevoi  

Japanese shipsSouthern Dragon, ARP Ashigara, ARP Hagura, ARP Nachi, ARP Myoko, Ishizuchi, ARP Heil, ARP Kongo, ARP Krishima, ARP Haruna, Nagato, Umikaze, Mutsuki, Fubuki, Hatsuhuru, Akatsuki, Shiratsuyu      German ships: Konigsberg, Yorck, Nassau, Konig, Bayern, Gneisenau, Tirpitz , G-101       

 

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HMS_Lollipop #29 Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:13 PM

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View PostLeskip, on 17 February 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

on the lower tiers its  team mates shooting there guns right at the start way before any contact, a sure sign your on a losing team.

 

LOL, So fricking true.  Sadly and unbelievable I've seen these morons in Ranked Battles this season too

HMS_Lollipop #30 Posted 13 March 2017 - 06:17 PM

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The Lemming Pack rush to a choosen cap point, with the battle cry of "Stick together!" being spammed in the chat...and.....then what? They all sit on the cap, being slaughtered like fish in a barrel 

Edited by HMS_Lollipop, 13 March 2017 - 06:18 PM.





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