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Good God, Zao


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mkcp40 #1 Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:17 PM

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This ship is definitely tied with Scharnhorst for the most OP ship I've played to date. I decided to suffer through the Mogami (meh) and Ibuki (awful) grinds to get to Zao after getting wrecked in my Des Moines. After 15 or so games I'm happy to say it's more like what a USN cruiser should be with gun-heavy tactics. It is much more versatile than my poor Des Moines and doesn't need to get suicidally close. The AA is merely adequate but you can't have it all. 

 

This was the first round with Zao: 

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Four factors: 

1) Stupidly high shell velocities make shooting from max range a breeze. DDs at 10km are also quite realistic shots 

2) Great armor - you can be much more aggressive in Zao 

3) Great handling- fast and quite agile  

4) High fire chance- burning BBs is absurdly easy

 

In short, if you have doubts throughout the T7/8/9 cesspool, keep going as Zao is unlike anything else in the line. 


Edited by mkcp40, 04 February 2017 - 07:18 PM.


meekerchris02 #2 Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:23 PM

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Des Monies and Zao are fierce competitors...

 

Zao is good at burning ships and torping at close distance

Des Monies has more consistent AP damage against larger ships. I do believe Des Moines AP can penetrate Yamato side armor at close range (when I say close I mean like under 5.5 km)


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Destroyer_Teruzuki #3 Posted 04 February 2017 - 08:11 PM

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View Postmeekerchris02, on 04 February 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Des Monies and Zao are fierce competitors...

 

Zao is good at burning ships and torping at close distance

Des Monies has more consistent AP damage against larger ships. I do believe Des Moines AP can penetrate Yamato side armor at close range (when I say close I mean like under 5.5 km)

That's not too hard for any tier 10 cruiser to do.

 

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AlcatrazNC #4 Posted 07 February 2017 - 06:53 AM

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Well, Myoukou is one of my fav ship in the game, Mogami was pretty good (sometime i miss those 155mm guns...) but the Ibuki...well i had some good time and some bad time but overall it perform just good.

 

About the Des Moines from what i've seen, she can be really powerfull and especially deadly for DD. Shooting every 5 sec isn't a joke for a cruiser. Her AP can citadel some stupid angle (I know Moksva have the same abilities but they don't have the same guns : Moksva have 220mm while DM have 203mm ) that Zao wouldn't be able to. 



mmfullen #5 Posted 09 February 2017 - 03:30 PM

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Zao was well worth the grind. I'm even considering the permanent camo for it now that my commander is at 19 points. It's great for high damage/high xp games.

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Kilpanic #6 Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:43 PM

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View Postmmfullen, on 09 February 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

Zao was well worth the grind. I'm even considering the permanent camo for it now that my commander is at 19 points. It's great for high damage/high xp games.

 

Speaking of permanent camo, is it possible to break even in this thing with the credit boost/maintenance signals and premium subscription? I want to get the permanent camo eventually but I also want to make the most efficient use of my existing resources. 

PowerSurged #7 Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:50 AM

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View PostKilpanic, on 18 February 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

 

Speaking of permanent camo, is it possible to break even in this thing with the credit boost/maintenance signals and premium subscription? I want to get the permanent camo eventually but I also want to make the most efficient use of my existing resources. 

 

I don't have premium subscription but I do have the prem camo on my Zao and you pretty much have to be detonated at the start of the match to lose any credits with the camo on. I just had a bad game on mine only did about 100k damage (mostly to BBs from fire) and only 1 kill. It was a defeat and most of the damage was on bbs that healed and the kill was just a low hp cruiser I tapped at the end and I still made about 80k credits. A really good game that ends in a win with multiple kills? Make 300k or more easy.

Warped_1 #8 Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:56 AM

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I love the Zao, my first T10 and a great fit for me.  You can really get the BBs raging...

MnemonScarlet #9 Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:35 AM

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View PostWarped_1, on 18 February 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

I love the Zao, my first T10 and a great fit for me.  You can really get the BBs raging...

 

As a BB main, I don't want them to ever nerf this. When I have bad nights with all the other BBs who are terminally useless, I can switch to this ship. And burn them all.


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Romeo26 #10 Posted 23 February 2017 - 07:55 PM

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It will be interesting to see how the Zao performs when WG nerfs invisi-firing.  I suspect it might see a serious drop in win rate/performance.  In the mean-time...grinding my way up as fast as I can!!  :)

_Luna #11 Posted 23 February 2017 - 07:58 PM

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A drop, probably.

A serious drop, IMO, unlikely.



SeaRaptor00 #12 Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:24 PM

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View PostRomeo26, on 23 February 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

It will be interesting to see how the Zao performs when WG nerfs invisi-firing.  I suspect it might see a serious drop in win rate/performance.  In the mean-time...grinding my way up as fast as I can!!  :)

 

I doubt there will be a significant change.  If there is one, it will be pretty minimal.  

For all of the rage about stealth-firing from open water -- and it IS a bad mechanic that needs to go -- it's not that easy to engineer.  My last couple games in Zao have consisted of exactly zero stealth-firing that didn't include being behind an island or some other kind of cover.  Game 1 was 220k damage, while game 2 was 150k.  So it's not like she's going to suddenly become a terribad ship when they obliterate stealth-firing in the open.  

 


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YamatoA150 #13 Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:55 PM

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Zao would just need to be unnerfed with the stealthfire removal, turning her back into a straight gunfighter (back then, it made her OP when coupled with stealthfire).

  • Restoration of her 4400 HP (more or less 1 non-Cit Pen)
  • Restoration of her RoF (was originally 5 RPM; still lower than Moskva's @ 5.8 RPM, and Hindenburg's @ 6 RPM)
  • Restoration of her her main turret traverse (was 30~32s 180 degree traverse; roughly in-line with DM's traverse)

 

Anything else isn't really necessary.  She'd still be capable of stealth surprise attacks, but now instead able to gunfight straight up.


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MnemonScarlet #14 Posted 24 February 2017 - 11:40 PM

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View PostSeaRaptor00, on 24 February 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

I doubt there will be a significant change.  If there is one, it will be pretty minimal.  

For all of the rage about stealth-firing from open water -- and it IS a bad mechanic that needs to go -- it's not that easy to engineer.  My last couple games in Zao have consisted of exactly zero stealth-firing that didn't include being behind an island or some other kind of cover.  Game 1 was 220k damage, while game 2 was 150k.  So it's not like she's going to suddenly become a terribad ship when they obliterate stealth-firing in the open.  

 

Most of my Zao games are like that. Stealth firing just seems like a massive waste of time unless you want to lose with huge damage numbers. I just wish Zao was more comfortable (faster traverse/etc) for normal engagements.
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Kikumon #15 Posted 26 February 2017 - 01:08 PM

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View PostRomeo26, on 24 February 2017 - 04:55 AM, said:

It will be interesting to see how the Zao performs when WG nerfs invisi-firing.  I suspect it might see a serious drop in win rate/performance.  In the mean-time...grinding my way up as fast as I can!!  :)

 

View PostMnemonScarlet, on 25 February 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

 

Most of my Zao games are like that. Stealth firing just seems like a massive waste of time unless you want to lose with huge damage numbers. I just wish Zao was more comfortable (faster traverse/etc) for normal engagements.

 

As some players have already and rightly pointed out on this forum, the invisifire is a "situational" tool that is "available" to Zao, which means you could not - and you should not - try to use it all the time during a battle: how many times a Zao thought he could invisifire safely, without knowing that a DD or a cruiser is somewhere within the 15.9 KM range and thus get detected?  How many times a Zao, seaching to make invisifire ALL THE TIME, put himself too far behind a battle line to make any difference or be any help to its team? Usually, in the losing side of the battle, you have a Zao as the sole survivor, for more than often this guy tried to invisifire during the whole game, he survived but he contributed to his team's doom.

 

Invisifire (the real one, not behind island or in smoke) become more useful / significant / feasible - both from a tactial and strategic point of view - at the half/ end stage of the battle, when most cruisers and better so the ennemy DDs are eliminated, that's when red BBs became "blind" and the landscape get "cleared'.



Aduial #16 Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:49 PM

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View PostYamatoA150, on 24 February 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

Zao would just need to be unnerfed with the stealthfire removal, turning her back into a straight gunfighter (back then, it made her OP when coupled with stealthfire).

  • Restoration of her 4400 HP (more or less 1 non-Cit Pen)
  • Restoration of her RoF (was originally 5 RPM; still lower than Moskva's @ 5.8 RPM, and Hindenburg's @ 6 RPM)
  • Restoration of her her main turret traverse (was 30~32s 180 degree traverse; roughly in-line with DM's traverse)

 

Anything else isn't really necessary.  She'd still be capable of stealth surprise attacks, but now instead able to gunfight straight up.

 

I'd personally go for 

-No HP buff

-ROF buff to something between 4.5 and 5 RPM (4.5 seems too low, 5 seems a bit too high)

-Buff to her turret traverse to 30 seconds

-Torpedo range buff to 10km


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strykerpsg #17 Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:13 AM

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Just picked mine up last night and only got one battle in her. Although that fight was a loss, she is indeed well worth the grind and have no regrets pining for her for so long. Now, to build up my captain. With the ability to now buy up your captains rank, will be doing that to supplement once the next skill is at least 50% or higher to the next level. Unfortunately for now, she will have to sail with a 14 point captain. I agree that if her original stats could be restored, she would just rule the fights.

PzkwVIB #18 Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:54 AM

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View PostAduial, on 05 March 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

 

I'd personally go for 

-No HP buff

-ROF buff to something between 4.5 and 5 RPM (4.5 seems too low, 5 seems a bit too high)

-Buff to her turret traverse to 30 seconds

-Torpedo range buff to 10km

 

If that's a flat buff to the Type F3, the Yuugumo and the Shimakaze will be rejoicing.
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YamatoA150 #19 Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:26 PM

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View PostAduial, on 05 March 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

I'd personally go for 

-No HP buff

-ROF buff to something between 4.5 and 5 RPM (4.5 seems too low, 5 seems a bit too high)

-Buff to her turret traverse to 30 seconds

-Torpedo range buff to 10km

 

At 40400 HP in-game, Zao has the lowest HP of all T10 cruisers, even Minotaur has more.  Restoring her HP value to 45200~45900 only moves her to second lowest HP, but gives her a bit more time in-game.  And unlike Minotaur, Zao doesn't have a super heal.

 

RoF is currently around 4.4 RPM, or 13.5s.  Way back when, she actually had 8s reloads, which is 7.5 RPM.  That's too high and definitely OP, so settling for either 5 RPM (12s) or 6 RPM is sufficient.  6 RPM is even with Hindenburg and Moskva (both at 10s reload).

 

Traverse should be restored to 28s, though 30s is fine.

 

As far as torpedoes go, I'd appreciate the option of having her 12km Type 93s back as a choice, as well as a buff to the F3s with a 10km range (but no torpedo concealment changes; just a range buff), or also adding in the 10km Long Lances that all other IJN cruisers use (fair mix of speed, range, and concealment).


My massive list of suggestions (Updated 05/17/2016).  Feel free to constructively debate and discuss.

Remember remember the 17th of September, the Tirpitz; which cost a lot.  Some say it's a fortune, and that it's extortion; but the price will never be forgot.

 

"I call her the Sandman.  She tells other tier 3 ships, "Hush now.  Only dreams," as she murders them."LittleWhiteMouse on Konig Albert - 08/30/2016


HerrSturm #20 Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:43 PM

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View PostYamatoA150, on 21 March 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

 

At 40400 HP in-game, Zao has the lowest HP of all T10 cruisers, even Minotaur has more.  Restoring her HP value to 45200~45900 only moves her to second lowest HP, but gives her a bit more time in-game.  And unlike Minotaur, Zao doesn't have a super heal.

 

RoF is currently around 4.4 RPM, or 13.5s.  Way back when, she actually had 8s reloads, which is 7.5 RPM.  That's too high and definitely OP, so settling for either 5 RPM (12s) or 6 RPM is sufficient.  6 RPM is even with Hindenburg and Moskva (both at 10s reload).

 

Traverse should be restored to 28s, though 30s is fine.

 

As far as torpedoes go, I'd appreciate the option of having her 12km Type 93s back as a choice, as well as a buff to the F3s with a 10km range (but no torpedo concealment changes; just a range buff), or also adding in the 10km Long Lances that all other IJN cruisers use (fair mix of speed, range, and concealment).

 

I seriously hope you are joking.  Otherwise, how about ...

 


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