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Update 0.6.0 Feedback

update release 0.6.0 commander skills clans

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324_9 #41 Posted 19 January 2017 - 11:58 AM

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HATE IT.

 



Jakob_Knight #42 Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:01 PM

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As a preliminary evaluation after only a single night of playing, I will give the following feedback:

 

When selecting skills for my captains, I noticed that Carrier captains received effective skill choices at all four levels of skill points with the ability to have all needed skills with a 15-point captain.  Battleship captains had effective skill choices at all four skill levels of skill points, but cannot have every needed skill with a 15-point captain, though a 15-point captain will be capable.  Cruiser captains had effective skill choices at all four levels of skill points, but require more points than possible in the Captain's skill system to be fully functional, and require an 18-point captain to be capable (Cruisers by far required the most points to reach parity in doing the jobs they need to do compared with the other classes).  Destroyers have no 1-point skill that is useful to them, making any skill selection from the 1-point skill level a complete waste compared to the benefit other classes receive from their skills at this level, while they also require a 14 point captain to reach minimum effective capability.  In particular, not having at least a 10-point captain is proving even more disadvantageous than the old skill system provided for not having a 15-point captain. 


 

In addition, despite the stated intent that this change was meant to increase diversity in possible skill selection, I find that there are still only one or two viable skill builds for each class of ship with the amount of skill points available, with the sole exception being Cruisers (which need too many skills to do their jobs competently).  Not taking those builds leads to a substantial disadvantage in capabilities.


 

While I want to do more testing before I become utterly unmovable on the subject, my experiences with Radio Location/Radio Position Finding/Keen Intuition is that the skill is so powerful that not taking it results in a game-breaking disadvantage, and having it provides either just clutter on the screen or an unbeatable advantage.   In addition, I saw teams fragment or refuse to engage much more in my play since the update than ever before, with cases of people who didn't care about the use of the skill engaging without the support of those who did.  My own use of the skill allowed my Destroyer and Cruisers to effortlessly track and engage or avoid enemy ships at my option, and provided a certainty where I only had guesswork before.  All in all, this skill provides so much advantage to me in any game that the only ships I will not take this skill on are those without the ability to make use of it (Carriers and Battleships), and any engagement against an opponent without this skill will almost certainly result in that opponent losing the encounter.


 

Overall, I think the advantages of the new skill system are far eclipsed by the ease and functionality of the old system.  Perhaps this will change over time, but this new system seems to be more awkward, has skills that are either not useful at all or are too powerful to ignore, and seems weighted towards making effective and efficient Carrier and Battleship Captains much more than Cruiser or Destroyer Captains.


 

My two cents.


Edited by Jakob_Knight, 19 January 2017 - 12:03 PM.


DQCraze #43 Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:37 PM

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As a USN DD player I feel there are to many things now that reveal my location, RDF< RADAR<HYDRO.  It has moved me from an offensive player to a defensive.  I have no cover anymore.

TTK_Aegis #44 Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:43 PM

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I'm enjoying that I have to actually consider the individual ship when picking captain skills now. Too often before this most of the cruisers got the same build as every other cruiser with very few exceptions (such as Atlanta having more of a custom build). Now every single ship takes thought when picking skills, and some of the choices are truly agonizing. To me, that's awesome. 

InventedThought #45 Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:43 PM

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hey I am not a DD player, (Can't get it figured out I stink with them worse than my other play) mostly BB's and cruisers. Being a meh player what I see might happen is that the RDF skill is going to keep newer player base from starting the DD lines given how the Exp. DD players are having problems. That being said I did not see much difference in my play with or without the skill but my highest Captains are only 10-11 pointers. The update itself seems to work fine. The redistribution of skill mechanic has worked fine for me. Keep up the good work WG always trying to improve the game so more of the player base has more FUN (it is a game after all) is always a good idea.  :medal:
edit = The audio when I play the Murmansck is stuttering and choppy.
 

Edited by InventedThought, 19 January 2017 - 03:15 PM.

 

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Drayghon #46 Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:51 PM

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Simple question - would it have been too much to ask the permanent activation of the team training room with the introduction to clan creation? I didn't expect clan battles, clan events or even a great amount of options with clans in this patch but I would have definitely expected some form of training room on the menu.

Drayghon #47 Posted 19 January 2017 - 03:08 PM

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View PostJakob_Knight, on 19 January 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

As a preliminary evaluation after only a single night of playing, I will give the following feedback:

 

When selecting skills for my captains, I noticed that Carrier captains received effective skill choices at all four levels of skill points with the ability to have all needed skills with a 15-point captain.  Battleship captains had effective skill choices at all four skill levels of skill points, but cannot have every needed skill with a 15-point captain, though a 15-point captain will be capable.  Cruiser captains had effective skill choices at all four levels of skill points, but require more points than possible in the Captain's skill system to be fully functional, and require an 18-point captain to be capable (Cruisers by far required the most points to reach parity in doing the jobs they need to do compared with the other classes).  Destroyers have no 1-point skill that is useful to them, making any skill selection from the 1-point skill level a complete waste compared to the benefit other classes receive from their skills at this level, while they also require a 14 point captain to reach minimum effective capability.  In particular, not having at least a 10-point captain is proving even more disadvantageous than the old skill system provided for not having a 15-point captain. 


 

In addition, despite the stated intent that this change was meant to increase diversity in possible skill selection, I find that there are still only one or two viable skill builds for each class of ship with the amount of skill points available, with the sole exception being Cruisers (which need too many skills to do their jobs competently).  Not taking those builds leads to a substantial disadvantage in capabilities.


 

While I want to do more testing before I become utterly unmovable on the subject, my experiences with Radio Location/Radio Position Finding/Keen Intuition is that the skill is so powerful that not taking it results in a game-breaking disadvantage, and having it provides either just clutter on the screen or an unbeatable advantage.   In addition, I saw teams fragment or refuse to engage much more in my play since the update than ever before, with cases of people who didn't care about the use of the skill engaging without the support of those who did.  My own use of the skill allowed my Destroyer and Cruisers to effortlessly track and engage or avoid enemy ships at my option, and provided a certainty where I only had guesswork before.  All in all, this skill provides so much advantage to me in any game that the only ships I will not take this skill on are those without the ability to make use of it (Carriers and Battleships), and any engagement against an opponent without this skill will almost certainly result in that opponent losing the encounter.


 

Overall, I think the advantages of the new skill system are far eclipsed by the ease and functionality of the old system.  Perhaps this will change over time, but this new system seems to be more awkward, has skills that are either not useful at all or are too powerful to ignore, and seems weighted towards making effective and efficient Carrier and Battleship Captains much more than Cruiser or Destroyer Captains.


 

My two cents.

 

View PostDQCraze, on 19 January 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

As a USN DD player I feel there are to many things now that reveal my location, RDF< RADAR<HYDRO.  It has moved me from an offensive player to a defensive.  I have no cover anymore.

 

View PostInventedThought, on 19 January 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

hey I am not a DD player, (Can't get it figured out I stink with them worse than my other play) mostly BB's and cruisers. Being a meh player what I see might happen is that the RDF skill is going to keep newer player base from starting the DD lines given how the Exp. DD players are having problems. That being said I did not see much difference in my play with or without the skill but my highest Captains are only 10-11 pointers. The update itself seems to work fine. The redistribution of skill mechanic has worked fine for me. Keep up the good work WG always trying to improve the game so more of the player base has more FUN (it is a game after all) is always a good idea.  :medal:

 

Wargaming is making a obvious attempt to eliminate DD players from the game it would seem. I have stopped playing them due to the same reasons you gents have posted and suggest to inventedthought that he not bother with them as even the most experienced players of the once mighty DD's have impossible odds to beat. We are the strongest players in the game and the most skilled it only makes sense to eliminate our abilities unfairly so that the masses get their all too easy chance to bring home the bacon. I really feel cheated in this regard and if it would make any difference I would suggest mass complaints but until the day we all make our complaints heard (instead of accepting the tortures wrought upon us) nothing will be done.

Edited by Drayghon, 19 January 2017 - 03:09 PM.


RedSeaBear #48 Posted 19 January 2017 - 06:51 PM

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Lets start with things I like; The Dragon port is nice. I have 2 captains who are close to being 19 pointers and it seems like getting an elite captain is more in reach. Elite captain Xp is a welcome change just wish I a bunch of it to boost some captains. Having Concealment Expert in reach of a 10 point captain is nice for my Marblehead and Pensacola captains. 

 

Game does seem a bit laggy last night, seems like a major patch comes out and my performance suffer. Usually goes away after a few hot fixes.

 

Ok buckle up time to tackle the core of 0.6.0, the Skill Tree review, note I don't play sky cancer I mean Carriers so I'll skip those skills.  

1 point row; not as many useful options like before.

Priority Target, useful information but still not great.

Preventive Maintenance, 30% less chance that stuff won't break but my stuff is still breaking.

Expert Loader, who in their right mind takes this. Wait for a reload or just do damage with what you have loaded. Have you been hit by large caliber AP, it hurt yo. 

Direction Center for Catapult Aircraft, um so I get two plans above my ship for the cost of one. The only good thing they did was maybe spot torpedoes, or act as a poor sailors hydro. I think is saw one get a plane kill once could have been a fluke. So I guess with this they are twice as likely to be useful?

Incoming Fire Alert, made redundant by Priority Target. I vote this skill be retired.

 

2 point row; Some good skill here, row one is jealous. 

High Alert, it is still helpful

 

Jack of all trades, 5% is meh, I'll pass. 

 

Expert Marksman, Still needed for destroyers who can't turn their turrets while using the rudder while fighting and Battleship who can't turn their turrets either.

Torpedo Acceleration, useful on CVs I guess [i don't play sky cancer CVs], suicide for IJN destroyers, maybe fun on a Gearing. 

Smoke Screen Expert, did we need more smoke? Might be useful for RN cruisers who's smoke isn't bugged but still acts bugged. 

Adrenaline Rush, the first interesting new skill might be useful but than you have to stay alive on low HP to make it work. Low HP cruisers and Destroyers don't live long firing their guns.

Last Stand, still mandatory for destroyers because stuff breaks every time you get hit.

 

3 point row; AKA where all the good skill live.

Basic of survivability, Meh, save your points get faster cool downs on Damage control through skill or premium damage control parties. 

Survivability Expert, useful if your plan to fight in a destroyer.

Torpedo Armament Expertise, was a great second pass skill for destroyers who had good torpedoes. It is now too expensive to warrant the cost over better skills at this level.

Basic Firing Training, This one hurts. The first skill I always took for one point. I can't tell you the times my little boats won gun duels because we could pump out more shells. Still a take for DD captains. 

Superintendent, This one now is questionable. All these good skill at row 3, can I get by with premium consumables? This is the hard choice.

Demo Expert, Woo Less fire chance. Probably won't be using this on my fire starting ship as other skill look better. 

Vigilance, I've never used this skill. Yes I've been surprised by torpedoes but in those cases dodging them would be doubtful considering the circumstances. 

 

4 point row; Here be dragons. 

Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armament, Still a must for battleships with lots of small guns. 

Fire Prevention, Woo Less fire for more skill points. Is the trade off worth the cost? 

Inertia Fuse for HE shells, I have no idea why I would take this on any of my ships. If I need to pen armor I use AP. But HE is for setting fires, damaging modules and wrecking small boats. 

Advanced Firing Training, still a must for AA and small boats that need to reach out and touch campers from as safe distance. 

Manual Fire Control for AA armament, Or how a Cleveland/Atlanta insures no CV will visit them. 

 

Radio Location or Radio Position Finding, not sure what where calling it nowadays? Expensive, yes. Useful, in some cases yes. Is it needed in the game, doubtful. Will I be using this stupid skill, No.

Concealment Expert, at only four points Heck Yeah. 

 

I was only able to play a few games yesterday because of real life and once I was in game I had to spend 40 minutes theory crafting new captain builds. This biannually mini game the developers spring on use isn't all that fun. Once I managed to get squared away I clicked the battle button. Guess what, Teams are still campy, not pushing, running away from battle and making me question how they managed to get their T8s and T9s. But now I'm seeing destroyers are even more hesitate about pushing caps. I only saw RPF/RL once in all my games and it was a surprise to get located. The surprise was like running into a pre-nerf Khab as a tier 8 destroyer and the overwhelming feeling that this is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. 

 

Finally I would like to address something I keep seeing from WG when discussing these changes. Which is the statement that "utility/hybrid builds are still possible but probably won't be as strong as specialized builds", Face palm, WG you might have the Data sets and a small window into player opinion but I wonder if you understand how people play your game. The reason I took hybrid captain builds and avoided specialized builds is because of lessons learned from playing the game. For instance the Cleveland can be an amazing destroyer hunter or an amazing plane hunter. But when I built my Cleveland for destroyer hunting I kept getting attacked by Carriers. So I rebuilt my Cleveland for wrecking Carrier planes and wouldn't you know it Carriers are avoiding me or not even in the game. These lessons forced me to go the hybrid build approach, so I could handled what ever Match Maker throws at me. Specialized builds are cool and all but can be a hindrance when MM doesn't give you the chance to us it. Hybrid builds while not having the flash of specialized builds will allow the player to be better able handle the changing battle field they face in Random Battles.

0.6.0 patch is some where between I could careless and Good grief what where you thinking. 

I'll leave you with this "A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a Master of One." 

 


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eatmyfish #49 Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:10 PM

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Hello Developers.   I am not sure if this is the correct forum but I have an opinion about the latest patch with the captain skill updates.  Firstly, I would like to say that this is the most unfair patch I have ever personally witnessed.  It took me 5000 games to bring my captains skill to level 18.. and I did it on every boat I own.  Since I cannot afford to buy premium ships in order to retrain captains, I built a captain for each and every boat.  I had many level 18 captains and the patch simply gave everyone, including amateurs the ability to have level 15 captains at any time. Due to this patch, you have taken away any advantage I had from all my effort.  Not only that, I now have over 2 Million elite commander points that I can use nowhere.  Since all my captains are already maxed, I have absolutely no use for these points.  I am extremely dissapointed and very angry that this was done.  I spent two years and over 5000 games to get those captains to that level and this patch simply gives every player the ability to have what I worked so hard to obtain. Everything I accomplished you have flushed down the toilet in one patch.   Do you think you deserve my loyalty for doing this to me?  As of this moment, I am quitting the game due to your incompetence in recognizing all I have accomplished. What do you plan to do to for players of my caliber and loyalty?  I am very very angry about this....   If this is how you treat me then I do not feel you deserve my loyalty.  Please respond....

 



IceSerpen7 #50 Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:26 PM

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View Posteatmyfish, on 19 January 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Hello Developers.   I am not sure if this is the correct forum but I have an opinion about the latest patch with the captain skill updates.  Firstly, I would like to say that this is the most unfair patch I have ever personally witnessed.  It took me 5000 games to bring my captains skill to level 18.. and I did it on every boat I own.  Since I cannot afford to buy premium ships in order to retrain captains, I built a captain for each and every boat.  I had many level 18 captains and the patch simply gave everyone, including amateurs the ability to have level 15 captains at any time. Due to this patch, you have taken away any advantage I had from all my effort.  Not only that, I now have over 2 Million elite commander points that I can use nowhere.  Since all my captains are already maxed, I have absolutely no use for these points.  I am extremely dissapointed and very angry that this was done.  I spent two years and over 5000 games to get those captains to that level and this patch simply gives every player the ability to have what I worked so hard to obtain. Everything I accomplished you have flushed down the toilet in one patch.   Do you think you deserve my loyalty for doing this to me?  As of this moment, I am quitting the game due to your incompetence in recognizing all I have accomplished. What do you plan to do to for players of my caliber and loyalty?  I am very very angry about this....   If this is how you treat me then I do not feel you deserve my loyalty.  Please respond....

 

 

Total PvE battles fought: 3

Total PvP battles fought: 1

Total ships owned: 3 (Black Swan, Erie, Weymouth)

 

What should WG do for players of this caliber and loyalty? A tough question indeed... :yes_cap:

 



Tibsun1 #51 Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:28 PM

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Hello Developers. This is a duplicate since I wrote the first reply from my second account and did not realize that I was signed into wrong account.  Firstly, I would like to say that this is the most unfair patch I have ever personally witnessed.  It took me 5000 games to bring my captains skill to level 18.. and I did it on every boat I own.  Since I cannot afford to buy premium ships in order to retrain captains, I built a captain for each and every boat.  I had many level 18 captains and the patch simply gave everyone, including amateurs the ability to have level 15 captains at any time. Due to this patch, you have taken away any advantage I had from all my effort.  Not only that, I now have over 2 Million elite commander points that I can use nowhere.  Since all my captains are already maxed, I have absolutely no use for these points.  I am extremely dissapointed and very angry that this was done.  I spent two years and over 5000 games to get those captains to that level and this patch simply gives every player the ability to have what I worked so hard to obtain. Everything I accomplished you have flushed down the toilet in one patch.   Do you think you deserve my loyalty for doing this to me?  As of this moment, I am quitting the game due to your incompetence in recognizing all I have accomplished. What do you plan to do to for players of my caliber and loyalty?  I am very very angry about this....   If this is how you treat me then I do not feel you deserve my loyalty.  Please respond....also, please post my battles and so on in this post.  To prove me wrong cheeky people  yes im talkin to you iceserpen7 sheesh.

 


Edited by Tibsun1, 19 January 2017 - 07:47 PM.


Symbiot_1 #52 Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:29 PM

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i want to point out that the new captain skills nerf the german battleship line hard. now you have to choose if you want to take advantage of the seconderies fully or you want to have more survivalbility, before the patch you could have moderate survivalbility skills with full secondery skill build and it fit the battleships really well. now it's imposible to do you have to sacrifice one or the other or build a a mix that is not really take full advantage of the ships strength. i wonder was it a intensional nerf or a unintended one

rapier_ape #53 Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:36 PM

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Haven't had time to draft a full response to the update, but I would like to share a few thoughts on Inertia Fuse for HE. 

 

I play the Atlanta a lot, about 950 battles thus far, so I was naturally intrigued by the skill when announced. One of the worst parts about playing a ship with 5" guns is an inability to damage battleships with less than 5000 or so health. Even in ideal training room situations (T5 BB, broadside, <4km range) , the very steep drop-off in shell effectiveness as the superstructure HP pool is depleted can result in roughly 1 in 12 HE shells doing any damage. Against T9 ships with anti-fire upgrades, a 2% observed chance of ignition is pretty typical, so it's not like igniting a fire was a reliable way of dealing damage, plus, even a BB on its last legs may well have a repair party ready, in which case you'll need another 70-90 shells to rekindle the flames. The thought of 20% better penetration was thus highly appealing to me, even with a ZERO chance of fire, essentially giving me guns akin to the British cruisers. When it was raised to a 30% increase with only a 3% decrease in fire chance, I was even more enthusiastic. Then I took it out for a spin.

 

Against AI battleships at 4-6km range, a 30% boost to penetration capability yielded a roughly 20% increase in average damage per HE shell against BBs with <10K health. Instead of chipping 118 HP at a time, they now did 140 HP. Against heavy cruisers the results were very similar. In order to make the skill useful, it should be scaled according to shell diameter, similar to the way Expert Marksman is.  



Tibsun1 #54 Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:37 PM

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View PostIceSerpen7, on 19 January 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

 

Total PvE battles fought: 3

Total PvP battles fought: 1

Total ships owned: 3 (Black Swan, Erie, Weymouth)

 

What should WG do for players of this caliber and loyalty? A tough question indeed... :yes_cap:

 

 

very cheeky response....  but I digress with this account.  please respond to my other account at tibsun1 further down in the reply section.

 



Arkaiko #55 Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:13 PM

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View PostDQCraze, on 19 January 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

As a USN DD player I feel there are to many things now that reveal my location, RDF< RADAR<HYDRO.  It has moved me from an offensive player to a defensive.  I have no cover anymore.

 

that!

idk what happens with the "changes" on russian DD line (still waiting for), but i hope get a decent torp range, cuz with this "update" i got just a bunch of weak, huge, and ultra detectable russian DDs with garbage guns, awfull 4km torp range and average speed...

 

if your plan is put a "map hack" on every user just remove the DDs, why should i use weak ships with 130mm guns if i could use crussiers with more and better guns and more hp? DDs without concealment r just crap

 

 



_Poi_Poi_poi #56 Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:18 PM

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A suggestion for all you Capt with ARP ships. I found a good use for them and the 10 pt Capts. You can try out different Capt perks on the same ships using all those 10 pt Capt that came with the free ARP ships. I have 13 different arp capt that are 10 pts or more, that's a lot of different capt perks combination to try out on the same ships.

Arkaiko #57 Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:25 PM

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how long for the new soviet DDs?

 



Blazinrage #58 Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:35 PM

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Spoiler

 


 

 


Tibsun1 #59 Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:42 PM

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crickets...  nice.   So if you cant make a cheeky remark you decide not to respond?   perfect... showing true colors now.

Boggins #60 Posted 19 January 2017 - 09:36 PM

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I like most of the changes to commander skills, but some of the tier 3 and 4 skills were once tier 1/2 skills and still should be. Mainly the survivability skills.




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