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0.5.15 - Japanese Destroyer Feedback


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Warped_1 #21 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:23 PM

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View PostIdleGroot, on 30 November 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Change is difficult, so I will try and remain objective and not go overboard.

 

My only concern is with the Captain placements after the update.

In my Fubuki VIII, I used Torpedo Acceleration.  With a range change of 3km (15km to 12km) it was an acceptable upgrade.

With this update, Wargaming moved my 15pt captain to the Kagaro VIII, with a Torpedo Range of 10km.

This means my range, with the Torpedo Acceleration Sklll applied, is now 8km.  

This is a configuration I would not find acceptable and would never apply to my Destroyer.

But now, I have no choice.

 

To resolve this situation I have several choice, all of which will cost me either Time or Cash.

1.  Re-Skill my captain for 375 Doubloons.

2.  Move a properly skilled captain into the Kagero retrain him for 275 Doubloons (I only have the one 15pt Captain), and grind him to 15pts again.

Considering there is only one DD that shoots over 10km, the Shimikaze, I'll have to mothball that captain for 2 year's while I continue to grind towards the un-desirable Tier 10 level.

 

When you make significant changes to a ship (or move captains for us), It would be much appreciated if you would allow us to re-skill those captains for free.

 

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This was a pleasantly unsalty and well worded argument.  +1

ValkyrWarframe #22 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:35 PM

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SergeantHop #23 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:35 PM

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The salt is real.

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Scarterous909 #24 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:37 PM

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View PostNikoPower, on 30 November 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

What do you think of the new ships? What do you like? What would you change?

 

What were the Devs smoking when they did this patch????   Why would you screw with the entire Jap DD line?  To excel at Jap DD's,  you didn't rely on guns because they were crap. But you had torps and you learned to use them with Hit and Run tactics.  You stayed hidden and outside of detection range, using cover or speed....  Now, to make the game 'more fun and evenly balanced' you've made the Jap DD's into gunboats and nerfed the torps.

 

HORRID patch so far. 

 

 



Cpt_Meli #25 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:43 PM

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Despite all of the hate, I would like to give some positive feedback;

 

The Yugumo is my new love for the IJN DD. she is a very nice ship. i enjoy playing her. the guns are nice to have something useful to use while your torps reload. Something i would change on the changes however, is that only the Shimakaze got longer ranged torpedoes.  I'm a little disappointed that the Fletcher and gearing both have much better torps than the supposed Torpedo boats.  

 

while it feels like a buff at each tier, it feels like a nerf on any of the ships that got moved (fubuki is lesser than its previous version and kagero doesn't hold up to the old fubuki)  so far though i like the direction this game is going.  now can we get a little less radar and hydro? :D i need to sneak my soup into a few more gullets (torpedo soup that is!)


Edited by Cpt_Meli, 30 November 2016 - 10:45 PM.


warp103 #26 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:51 PM

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View PostCpt_Meli, on 30 November 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

Despite all of the hate, I would like to give some positive feedback;

 

The Yugumo is my new love for the IJN DD. she is a very nice ship. i enjoy playing her. the guns are nice to have something useful to use while your torps reload. Something i would change on the changes however, is that only the Shimakaze got longer ranged torpedoes.  I'm a little disappointed that the Fletcher and gearing both have much better torps than the supposed Torpedo boats.  

 

while it feels like a buff at each tier, it feels like a nerf on any of the ships that got moved (fubuki is lesser than its previous version and kagero doesn't hold up to the old fubuki)  so far though i like the direction this game is going.  now can we get a little less radar and hydro? :D i need to sneak my soup into a few more gullets (torpedo soup that is!)

 

Ok I give something positive. The new ship have a Great boost in DPM. Just 1 issue  ap can not pen. HE which can pen not setting fires  nor doing damage. Is That positive???

 



Crokodone #27 Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:52 PM

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View PostNikoPower, on 30 November 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

What do you think of the new ships? What do you like? What would you change?

 

​the reduction of concealment on the Hatsuharu and the serious lack of turret rotation totally nullifies the ship as either a gunboat or torpedo boat. If memory serves the original Mutsuki at tier 6 had not only more concealment but higher ROF. Hatsuharu should have its concealment dropped down to 5.6km with CE and atleast her gun range increased to 10km. Right now, hatsuaru is in a very bad place right now.

Akatsuki is a totally different story in everything aside concealment. Six guns is way better than 4 and its torpedo armament of 3 triple launchers is a world of improvement over the old tier 7 hatsuharu. It would be nice if Akatsuki got her concealment reduced by atleast .6km.



Kingfishercritic #28 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:06 PM

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Hatsuharu felt much better for its tier before the patch. The guns feel worse somehow... but I'm not really sure about what the difference actually is.

 

I'm really missing the longer ranged torp options, even if I rarely did well with them, I liked being able to fire from outside radar range.

 

 


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AVR_Project #29 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:12 PM

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View PostDeth_Givr, on 30 November 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

I just want to know where my Minekaze captain went. He was kaigun chosa now I got some noob on there Kaigun Daii

 

Had that problem this morning -- real confusing...

He is on the Mutsuki..  Yes, seriously..  on the Mutsuki that you don't have.  And so why didn't he go to reserve? ? ? reasons..

So you must BUY the Mutsuki, and pay 500 doubloons ($2.50US) to put him back on the Minekaze.

On the plus side, you get free camo for T6 once you get there.


Edited by AVR_Project, 30 November 2016 - 11:15 PM.

So much has been lost, so much forgotten. So much pain, so much blood. And for what? I wonder. The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between. But there is still time to seize that one last, fragile moment. To choose something better, to make a difference.  -- Babylon 5


AVR_Project #30 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:22 PM

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Looking out on the new selection, I have three new/changed destroyers to choose from.

--but everyone will be doing that--

When the RN light cruisers came out, there were a bunch of sadistic clubbers that lined up their BBs and single-shotted the new ships for fun.

I'm thinking the Krasny Krym and Atlanta might be favorite ships for the time being...  That's where I want to be if I'm surrounded by 5 enemy destroyers.  Like a shooting gallery - line em up.

Break out the clubs.


So much has been lost, so much forgotten. So much pain, so much blood. And for what? I wonder. The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between. But there is still time to seize that one last, fragile moment. To choose something better, to make a difference.  -- Babylon 5


CandyAzz #31 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:23 PM

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So far, a complete waste of time and gold.

 

Bought premium camo for the fubuki and Hat, everyone seems to be getting it for free, and it is not the same camo I bought for those ships, only 30% xp and no reduction in cost. 5000 gold wasted.

 

Sold off the iso, min, and mut , feel sorry for the newbies that will watch you tube videos with the min and find out it will be a grinder.

 

All of the captains I have for the other ships need their skills changed so more gold.

 

Not happy.

 



BlailBlerg #32 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:29 PM

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Sadly, most of these responses are just complaining about how resources were compensated... however, I hope you, WG, notices how much negativity and irritation people have with changes to IJN weapons, especially loss of damage, which is the primary virtue of IJN DDs.  


 I hope also that WG realizes that certain "glowing" reviews, such as using torp booster instead of smoke are inherently assumed to be not good for win ratios over a long period of time.
We can all try it, and seriously give it a go, but its very unlikely that many of us will enjoy playing without smoke.  

The total confusion between the line ideologies is also very applicable.  See LWM's review also.  

In general, this change doesn't seem to be handled that well from a public relations perspective.  
Also, you should probably add a poll?  For each DD, things like, good, bad, enough damage, dies a lot, etc? 



Morpheous #33 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:39 PM

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Played my Kagero at t9 with out smoke, rarely ever missed it...not with the torpedo reload, that got me some amazing games.  So will have to see how this works out at lower tiers, probably not as well because more CV's at lower tiers.  That is the only reason my Kagero didn't need smoke, rarely ran into a CV.

dechion #34 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:45 PM

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I took Isokaze out for a spin and was happy with how she performed.

I looked over the stats of Mutsuki and Minekaze and didn't really like what I saw. I'm abandoning tier 5 anyway because of the constant tier 7 matches, so they will just be sold on Dec 3rd.

I was pretty excited for the Fubuki, but when I found that I couldn't stealth torp without investing free XP or playing it as a very meh stock gunboat I decided to go work on the US destroyer line instead.

Might give Fubuki a try later after I free XP the B hull and long range torps.

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WidochMeirker #35 Posted 30 November 2016 - 11:57 PM

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View PostCaptHarlock_222, on 30 November 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

I seem to lose my engines with every hit,

 

This exactly.  On my Fubuki last night, I lost my engine nearly every single time I was shot.  It didn't matter where.  I would get one stray HE round from a destroyer to the front of my ship and my engine would go out, so I'd repair it and literally the next stray HE round, with no penetration, would take the engine out 2 seconds after it was repaired.  This happened over and over and over again last night.  Something is very wrong right now.

supercontroller9 #36 Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:23 AM

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Need some buffs, they are still not in a good place, well except Fubuki at Tier VI (withholding comment about Shiratsuyu, Minekaze, Mutsuki, Isokaze, and Akizuki due to lack of play)

the following is the ships at thier new tiers

Hatsuharu, needs buffs

Kagerou, needs buffs

Yuugumo, maybe maybe not, need more games to confirm, seems to need very slight buffs from the one game I have played

Akatsuki, slight buffs

Fubuki is good enough, may or may not need buffing, need to confirm

 

My Ideas......

Put the HE alpha back to 2000, increase the fire chance by 1%

Buff survivability of the Engines on all High-Pressure Steam Ships

Drop the detect-ability of Torps on the ships above Tier VII by 100m

Kagerou at Tier VIII and Hatsuharu at Tier VI need more love than the above in my opinion

Akatsuki at Tier VII with the above buffs should be fine 

Fubuki at Tier VI is in almost in the place it needs to be (just the gun buffs are needed)

Frankly, I do not know what to do with the Yuugumo, she is more consistent, but not in the place it needs to be, maybe the buffs will solve the problem

 

EDIT

The Yuugumo might need even more than originally predicted

 

Second EDIT, I know what exactly more can be done or my exact plan, more or less (subject to change)

  • Overall, HE alpha change to 2000, Fire Chance set to 8%, Engine Durability increased, 127mm shells get 9% less drag, 120mm get 15% less drag
  • Yuugumo definitely needs Buffs
    • Type F3 detection range changed to 1.8km,
    • The Tier 8 and 9 need Torp option that have longer range than Radar (say 15km Torps)
    • needs 200m extra gun Range
    • and the Old Torp reload option added to its own separate slot,
    • Type 93 mod. 2 detection range changed to 1.6km,
    • 127mm guns count as DP
    • All Torp Reload decreased by 11 sec
  • Kagerou needs some of the most love
    • 15km Torp Option
    • 600m extra gun Range
    • the Old Torp Reload in a separate slot
    • Type 93 mod. 2 detection range changed to 1.6km, Torp Reload dropped by 3 sec
    • Type 90 mod. 1 decrease reload by 5 sec, change detection range to 1.5km
    • 127mm Guns count as DP
  • Akatsuki, only the universal balancing and Torp Detection changes
    • Type 90 mod. 1 decrease reload by 5 sec, change detection range to 1.5km
    • Type 8 mod. 2 gets detected at 1.45-1.5km
  • Hatsuharu
    • Type 8 mod. 1 reloads 9 sec faster, gets detected at 1.45-1.5 km
    • Gun Range increased by 600m
    • HP Increased to 11900
    • A Torp Reload in a separate slot (sets tubes to 45 sec)
    • Type 8 mod. 2 gets detected at 1.45-1.5km
    • Gun Reload Dropped by 0.1 sec
    • Detection Range by Sea dropped to 6.4km
  • Fubuki, universal balancing with the Torp Detection Changes
    • Type 8 mod. 1 reloads 9 sec faster, gets detected at 1.45-1.5 km
    • Type 8 mod. 2 gets detected at 1.45-1.5km
  • Isokaze (only played one game)
    • Gun Reload Decreased to 7.8 sec
    • Type 6 Speed Increased to 60kts detection unchanged
    • Type 6 Damage Increased to 11,800
  • Minekaze (because of the Isokaze Changes, Provisional)
    • Gun Reload Decreased to 7.5 sec
    • Type 6 Speed Increased to 60 kts
    • Type 6 Damage Increased to 11,800
    • Gun Range buffed to 8.8 km
  • Provisional Mutsuki Changes (haven't played games in her)
    • Gun Reload Decreased to 4.9
    • HP Increased by 200
    • Gun Range Buffed to 8.6 km
    • Type 8 mod. 3 Detection Range Chanced to 1.5km
  • Shimakaze (because reload was not changed on her, and other changes)
    • gun reload decreased by .9 sec
    • Speed Increased by .5kts to 39.5 kts
    • Firing Range Increased by 800m
    • Type 93 Torpedoes detected 2.1km Out Reload Decreased by 8 sec
    • Type 93 mod. 3 detected 1.7km Out Reload decreased by 13 sec
    • Type F3 Detected 1.8km out Reload decreased by 11 sec

Edited by supercontroller9, 01 December 2016 - 03:29 AM.

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AIGHTBALL #37 Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:25 AM

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View PostDeth_Givr, on 30 November 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

I just want to know where my Minekaze captain went. He was kaigun chosa now I got some noob on there Kaigun Daii

 

​I would also like to know I had a 16 point capt in my minekaze and now I have a 5 point capt and the 16 point capt is gone and nowhere to be found.......... I WANT MY 16 PIONT CAPT BACK !!!!!!!!!!!

Herr_Reitz #38 Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:31 AM

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View PostTTK_Aegis, on 30 November 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

 

Neither you nor any other players "have to". You can just play games to retrain them. 

 

Pedantic? Yes. But you asked... so... 

 

Yeah, that was a very insightful observation you made there. Why don't you go play the games to retrain a 15-18pt commander. Oh, be sure to use all your flags and signals too. 

 



Geococcyx #39 Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:39 AM

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The way I break this change down is into three areas: 1) clarity of the goal(s) for the changes and ; 2) how the changes meet those goals ; and 3) how those changes impact areas where player have spent time and money; and how those impacts are mitigated.

1) I am not crystal clear why the split was needed. I have heard the aim was to add diversity.  OK, a bunch of different ways to meet this aim, a different way would be to use the German DDs. But WG choose to split the IJN line, I have no inherent issue with this. The clarity I am missing is on the specifics-goals how this split meets that aim.  I read the goal was to have the main line be torps and add gunboat sub-line. I also head that they want to create a "balanced line" and a "aggressive line."    I heard and read other things. I am still confused on the details of what goals WG was trying to accomplish. That is, how to measure what they did against what they intended.

2) How did the changes meet these goals? Hard for me to tell. Looks like there are some interesting new ships, particularly at high tiers. The middle tiers (5-6) seem confused with not enough differences to make a real separation. I find the Fubuki and the Hastuharu very similar.  To me the 0.5 second better reload and the bit better turret traverse do not make the Hatsuharu a gunboat, particularly because she has a 0.7km worse base range than the 'buki. This is one example, other posters have pointed that I also agree with. To be fair it will take me awhile playing each ship to provide a reasoned assessment based on experience. But on paper (or in port)....

3) Generally, I think WG did a good job mitigating the impacts that the changes had on equipment, mods, experience, etc. I was pleased by them providing extra captains. However, I still think the way WG handled the captains was not great in light of the magnitude of the changes and the cost in gold to adjust captains.  I tend to agree with other posters on this point. My suggestion to WG is whenever there are changes that affects captains put all the affected captains in reserve, then rest them both with respect to skills and ship specialization. Let the players figure what suits them best in light of how they view the changes. I had to retrain two captains then reskill one, just to get a captain with a 4 point skill in the Hatsuharu. I will likely have to move and retain captains to balance other ships.



MidnightShamalan #40 Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:48 AM

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the new Minekaze is not good. i'm fine with the torpedo nerf. probably needed. but it needs better compensation with the guns. rotation speed, or range. and RoF. 10 second reload on a ship that no longer has great torpedoes just won't cut it.

 

that's my initial reaction. keeping an open mind about the rest, most of them look pretty good.






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