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0.5.15 - Japanese Destroyer Feedback


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Capt_Q_Sparrow #241 Posted 05 January 2017 - 06:24 PM

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View PostSeraphil, on 28 December 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

You know, in the old tech tree you'd still have to have played Mutsuki to advance up the line, right?  And that she was a tier 6, right?  So you would have had a longer grind against tougher opponents, right?  By moving Mutsuki down to tier 5, they cut down the amount of time you'd have to spend playing that ship.  In all respects this was a BENEFIT for you.

 

LOL.  Low-tier US DDs bad?  REALLY?  Clemson, Nicholas and Farragut say hello?

 

Took your lumps?  In ships like Umikaze and Isokaze which completely dominated the tiers they're at?  Umikaze, a ship that people would take into tier 10 matches to dump torps on hapless Yamatos with impunity?

 

 

There will be a tier 9 and 10 implemented for the new line later on said Wargaming, which is why it doesn't connect into the main line.

 

What you have to realize here is Seraphil seems to hate any GOOD DD's with torps  that kill his BBs . Who says this has to just be a shoot the guns game ? For those of us that enjoyed the IJN line as it was , this was a horrific nerf  that was unfair and unwarranted. 

I point to the OP Bismarck / Khabarovsk / Moskva /  DM Donskoi .

Try getting to within 10 K of a Bismarck's secondaries . Moskva with 11.7 radar detect , DM with 11.0 radar detect , Khabarovsk with it's HUGE speed advantage and OP guns . There's ships that over perform . Anti Dd nerfs are out of control right now . Then they nerf hit the torps on the entire IJN line ?

Every time there's a good ship that people run to it seems it gets nerfed to pieces eventually . Cleveland is a great example of that . It wan't enough that they screwed it's guns over then they fired up the Citadel nerf on it and all of a sudden it's an AP disaster . Now it's a Port Queen that only gets used to kill Aircraft . Is it a bad ship ?  No not at all . BB's are just too OP now to play cruisers unless you wish to grind out to the upper tiers and get that radar to screw over the DD's .

 

The bottom line here on the IJN  Dd line is they are now the WORST available DDs in the game  per tier across the board after the great nerf . This is mainly due to the torp nerf  and their general lack of speed . With all the radar and super Hydro  that's out there now the IJN line with it's slow speed are inferior ships 

 


Edited by Capt_Q_Sparrow, 05 January 2017 - 06:43 PM.


Tranx #242 Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:01 PM

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View PostSeraphil, on 28 December 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

You know, in the old tech tree you'd still have to have played Mutsuki to advance up the line, right?  And that she was a tier 6, right?  So you would have had a longer grind against tougher opponents, right?  By moving Mutsuki down to tier 5, they cut down the amount of time you'd have to spend playing that ship.  In all respects this was a BENEFIT for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No Seraphil, I did not know the Mutsuki was at tier six above the Minkaze in the old tech tree. That would be for several reasons. I play this game to relax when I get a few minutes in my busy day. (That is why it has taken me so long to simply respond to you) I do not have the time to memorize every single tech tree for all of the ships. Also, I had just come back to the game after a several month long break from playing and found they had changed the Japenese destroyers. So no, I did not remember that the Mutsuki was the next ship in line on the old line up. I have better things to do than spend what little play time I have perusing every single tech tree and memorizing them. I would rather play. Thank you for pointing out these facts. I appreciate your input, but it doesn't change my opinion. 

Capt_Q_Sparrow #243 Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:05 PM

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View PostSergeantHop, on 27 December 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

Check my posts. Tell me when I've ever complained about destroyers. You'll find that it's never, because I understand how they work, and I understand that when they strike me from stealth, it's because I screwed up. It's pretty rare that that happens though.

 

 

Forever? Look at where Kamikaze R and Fujin are. They're basically identical ships. Same torps as the old Minekaze, except the ship is faster. It was always those two, followed immediately by Minekaze. The ship was overperforming, if you think otherwise, you're delusional.

 

 

When did I say that? 

 

 

It was what it was? That's ridiculous, lol. If a ship is overperforming, it needs to be nerfed, pure and simple. Minekaze is now in line with the rest of the tier 5 destroyers. If you don't like that, too bad.

No what's ridiculous is when they nerf the torps on the entire line .

What's ridiculous is kidnapping your commanders and sticking them into the new ships .

What's ridiculous is expecting a DD with sub par guns / lousy turret traverse / slow speed / and slow torpedo reload speed  to operate at all and wonder why they suffer .

Isokaze wasn't all that great . It had inferior speed and limited torp range . It could be hunted by faster cruisers .

Minekaze with it's limited torp range was a great ship . Whine about the torp speed ? Stop driving straight . Regardless of it's torp speed it could NOT Torp a Battleship or cruiser that was going away from it . They would out run the range . What you really had was a bunch of BB drivers that were bad and refused to change their tactics . 

So let's make things all better and not only cut the ships torp speed but also increase it's torp detectibility range so that even a T4 BB can easily detect and dodge any Torps thrown at it .

I jettisoned the Isokaze immediately . It's junk now 

The Minekaze has been mothballed and will stay that way until they either restore it to what it was or they nerf the Kamikaze R and Fujin .

Those of us that played IJN DDs did not put our time and effort into developing those ships captains to have this happen .



SergeantHop #244 Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:11 PM

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View PostCapt_Q_Sparrow, on 05 January 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

No what's ridiculous is when they nerf the torps on the entire line .

What's ridiculous is kidnapping your commanders and sticking them into the new ships .

What's ridiculous is expecting a DD with sub par guns / lousy turret traverse / slow speed / and slow torpedo reload speed  to operate at all and wonder why they suffer .

Isokaze wasn't all that great . It had inferior speed and limited torp range . It could be hunted by faster cruisers .

Minekaze with it's limited torp range was a great ship . Whine about the torp speed ? Stop driving straight . Regardless of it's torp speed it could NOT Torp a Battleship or cruiser that was going away from it . They would out run the range . What you really had was a bunch of BB drivers that were bad and refused to change their tactics . 

So let's make things all better and not only cut the ships torp speed but also increase it's torp detectibility range so that even a T4 BB can easily detect and dodge any Torps thrown at it .

I jettisoned the Isokaze immediately . It's junk now 

The Minekaze has been mothballed and will stay that way until they either restore it to what it was or they nerf the Kamikaze R and Fujin .

Those of us that played IJN DDs did not put our time and effort into developing those ships captains to have this happen .

 

 

You're right, we should just let overperforming ships overperform. Who cares that it doesn't line up with the tiering and was better than the tier 6 and 7 ships in every appreciable way. Go ahead, retire the Minekaze. Maybe that was the point, eh? 


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Sabot_100 #245 Posted 05 January 2017 - 10:42 PM

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View PostCapt_Q_Sparrow, on 05 January 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

Until He started torp dumping on those big BB's and start flooding them out .

 

Pre-radar days?

Capt_Q_Sparrow #246 Posted 05 January 2017 - 10:59 PM

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View PostSabot_100, on 05 January 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

Pre-radar days?

 

yes and pre 2 tier limit on divisions

BlailBlerg #247 Posted 05 January 2017 - 11:15 PM

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Been about a month now.  Current opinions on IJN?  

My personal one is besides Shira and Aki, they're all CRAP. 

Capt_Q_Sparrow #248 Posted 05 January 2017 - 11:30 PM

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View PostSergeantHop, on 05 January 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

 

 

You're right, we should just let overperforming ships overperform. Who cares that it doesn't line up with the tiering and was better than the tier 6 and 7 ships in every appreciable way. Go ahead, retire the Minekaze. Maybe that was the point, eh? 

 

Khab is still OVER PERFORMING isn't it  ?  OH YEAH it's not doing it with Torpedoes so that's OK RIGHT ? If they hadn't changed the ship style with the Mutsuki and the Hatsuharu they wouldn't have been such BAD performers in the first place . As soon as they went to double launchers vs triple the line suffered . Couple that with Slower top end speed , slow torpedo reload times  , and it was a troubled line at best . Hitting the Minekaze / Isokaze with a 3 way torp nerf was over kill . Speed / damage / detect were all hit and now a Wyoming in T4 can easily dodge incoming Minekaze torps . Like I said earlier and you will not listen to is even with what they had for torp speed Enemy ships HAD to be coming at you or running straight and true parallel to you for the torps to hit . Now the same is true with slower , less damaging , and higher detected torps . Can we now say UNDER PERFORMERS ?  OP is in the eyes of the BBs that continued to drive straight into those torps . 

Get your head off the Minekaze and the Isokaze for just a moment and look what they did to the ENTIRE line . 

All they did here was cave to the BB drivers who were whining about the grind and how hard it was in their poor Battleships .

In the last year they have buffed Battleships Gun accuracy / turning ability / and armor . They lessened the amt of damage that could be received by DD guns . radar came out buffed radar came out  super hydro came out . What was done to better the DD's ?  NOTHING  just nerf after nerf after nerf both direct and indirect .I had a game pre nerf with Minekaze where I had the perfect ambush against a Nagato  . All 6 torps hit across the broadside . Did I sink it ?  NO it's buffed armor saved it and then it healed back tons of health .

Take a look at Kagero for example :

Ship speed is pathetically slow it is the 3rd slowest DD from T6  to T 10 . The 2 slower ones are IJN . It sees T 10 matches against ships with Radar that out ranges it's torpedoes . If you have CE it's a very stealthy ship BUT slow ship speed against cruisers that have 11 K or higher Radar ? It is a useless and soon dead ship that will eventually get detected  . Add to that a terrible torpedo reload time and you spend your entire match staying out of range of detection or go in and die in a heartbeat from cruisers that have faster gun reload times than you do .

Yugomo at T 9 is not much better .

Why don't they just change the name of this to World of Battleships and be done with it ?

Rock / Paper / Scissors

Battleships are supposed to kill Cruisers 

Cruisers are supposed to kill Destroyers

Destroyers are supposed to kill Battleships

Cruisers are NOT supposed to kill Battleships unless they want to die trying

Destroyers are NOT supposed to kill Cruisers  unless they want to die trying

Battleships are NOT supposed to kill destroyers  unless they want to die trying

The IJN line is now being hunted by Battleships. Is that what this game was supposed to be based on ?

Doesn't sound too much like Rock / Paper / Scissors to me .

 


Edited by Capt_Q_Sparrow, 06 January 2017 - 02:45 AM.





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