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German ship tech tree with WoT style branches


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Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper #1 Posted 25 October 2016 - 01:30 AM

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Here is a potential German tech tree. The ships in between the columns are ships that cross over to other lines of ships.

 

Version 1:

 

Spoiler

Version 3 (Updated German DD line):

 

Notes on ships:

Von der Tann is reached through gaining exp on the Nassau.

Blücher is reached through the Kolberg.

Moltke can be reached through the Von der Tann or the Blücher.

Gneisenau can be reached by the Bayern, Mackensen, or Lützow (the "pocket battleship").

Bayern can research both L20a and Gneisenau.

The Scheer, Von Monts, Thüringen are 3 battle-cruiser that need to be designed, possibly modified H-designs.

 

For those who are wondering, I chose the Moltke at T4 since it is almost like the Kaiser but with 11 inch guns instead. The Blücher at T4 was based off some other discussion I had. She would also be similar to the Molotov by mounting higher-tier (Yorck) guns.

 

Scheer Charateristics

 

Thoughts, suggestions, and anything of that sort?


Edited by Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper, 17 March 2017 - 11:09 PM.

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Phoenix_jz #2 Posted 25 October 2016 - 02:05 AM

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I'm afraid I'm not terribly knowledge able about WWI batttlecruiser, but the one thing I will ask is if this is simply organized by chronological order, or did you actually consider how well they'll operate at their tier?

 

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Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper #3 Posted 25 October 2016 - 02:10 AM

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View PostPhoenix_jz, on 24 October 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

I'm afraid I'm not terribly knowledge able about WWI batttlecruiser, but the one thing I will ask is if this is simply organized by chronological order, or did you actually consider how well they'll operate at their tier?

 

It is mostly by chronological order which fits well into the tiering system. The only ship that is a little out of place chronologically is the Blücher since she is a bit OP for T3. The only non-historical ones are the T8-T10 battlecruisers.


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Lord_Magus #4 Posted 25 October 2016 - 02:50 AM

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Which designs do Scheer, Von Monts and Seydlitz represent? Germany didn't give ships names until actually launched, so if those are from real projects you should list them with the letter code in parenthesis.

 

And, no Ersatz Yorck-class battlecruiser? I've suggested before that Prinz Adalbert be used as the name for that one, and given she'd be the German equivalent to Hood clearly Tier 7. I'll also throw out Preussen as a name for L20a.


Edited by Lord_Magus, 25 October 2016 - 02:52 AM.


Yorcke #5 Posted 25 October 2016 - 03:54 AM

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Interesting post: I'll have to study this in more detail.

 

First Impressions:

  1. What about the Proposed German CV, the Graf Zeppelin?
  2. German DDs: wouldn't they have names?
  3. Any thoughts about E-boats (schnellboot)?
  4. A possible simple Tier 2 Battleship, the Schleswig-Holstein (similar idea to the IJN Mikasa)
  5. If a separate BattleCruiser line, why not a separate 'Pocket BattleShip' line?
  6. A good reference book is: 'Under Three Flags' - The German Navy under the Kaiser, the Republic, and the Third Reich 1914/1945 by Andris J. Kursietis

 

Good work,

Cheers,

Yorcke


Edited by Yorcke, 25 October 2016 - 03:57 AM.


Lord_Magus #6 Posted 25 October 2016 - 04:52 AM

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1. We're not likely to get any new carrier lines until CV gameplay itself gets reworked.

2. Some German DDs would have names, others would just have a letter and number.

3. The schnellbooten would be a definite no. Too small to be viable.

4. For the time being, WG seems to consider more Mikasa-like ships to be something to avoid.

5. The progression would be a bit odd there. The D-class was supposed to be Deutschland's successor and would be a fairly straightforward upgrade with the same main guns, improved AA and more efficient secondary layout, much better armor and a slight increase in speed to 29 knots. But the P-class isn't so straightforward. Significantly heavier than D-class and with a further speed increase to 33 knots (finally a panzerschiff with respectable speed for a WW2 cruiser), but still the same main guns (or maybe the upgraded version from Scharnhorst, it's not entirely clear), half as many secondaries, much less AA and reduced armor compared to D-class. That might be because D-class was simply a more mature design by the point it was discarded in favor of Scharnhorst than P-class was when cancelled.



Panzer20000 #7 Posted 25 October 2016 - 05:49 AM

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Ersatz Yorck should be part of the main battlecruiser line, at the very least an alternate choice. As for tier VIII-X, I presume they are the beefy late WWI designs Germany was making, or fictional designs, i.e. significantly uparmored and upgunned O-Class or less armored Bismarck/H-class based designs.

 

As for the DD Line, just doesn't look very good with some ships that are too weak, under or overtiered, as well as using designs that aren't originally German.

 

This is how I see the tree going:

 

tier II: Großes Torpedoboot 1913/1916mob

tier III: Torpedobootzerstörer, also called B-97 class

tier IV: Großes Torpedoboot 1918Mob

tier V: Elbing class

tier VI: Zerstorer 1934/1934A

tier VII: Zerstorer 1936B

tier VIII: Zerstorer 1936C

tier IX: Zerstorer 1944

tier X: Zerstorer 1945


Edited by Panzer20000, 25 October 2016 - 05:57 AM.


Yorcke #8 Posted 25 October 2016 - 06:06 AM

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Interesting observations, thanks.

Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper #9 Posted 25 October 2016 - 11:48 AM

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View PostLord_Magus, on 24 October 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

Which designs do Scheer, Von Monts and Seydlitz represent? Germany didn't give ships names until actually launched, so if those are from real projects you should list them with the letter code in parenthesis.

 

And, no Ersatz Yorck-class battlecruiser? I've suggested before that Prinz Adalbert be used as the name for that one, and given she'd be the German equivalent to Hood clearly Tier 7. I'll also throw out Preussen as a name for L20a.

 

The last 3 German battlecruisers are not really any project names since the last German Battlecruiser design I found was the O-type which is covered by the Gneisenau in this game. Using some basic design knowledge on how the Germans built ships and what ships are currently in the German BB line, I would say that the Scheer would have eight 15-inch guns and the other two have eight 16-inch guns.

 

Thinking about it, I think it would be decent to have the main Battlecruiser line go with Ersatz Yorck and a line that transitions between the BB and BC line with Gneisenau.

 

I have edited the tree to put these changes in.


Edited by Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper, 25 October 2016 - 11:50 AM.

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Lord_Magus #10 Posted 25 October 2016 - 07:24 PM

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View PostPanzer20000, on 25 October 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Ersatz Yorck should be part of the main battlecruiser line, at the very least an alternate choice. As for tier VIII-X, I presume they are the beefy late WWI designs Germany was making, or fictional designs, i.e. significantly uparmored and upgunned O-Class or less armored Bismarck/H-class based designs.

 

As for the DD Line, just doesn't look very good with some ships that are too weak, under or overtiered, as well as using designs that aren't originally German.

 

This is how I see the tree going:

 

tier II: Großes Torpedoboot 1913/1916mob

tier III: Torpedobootzerstörer, also called B-97 class

tier IV: Großes Torpedoboot 1918Mob

tier V: Elbing class

tier VI: Zerstorer 1934/1934A

tier VII: Zerstorer 1936B

tier VIII: Zerstorer 1936C

tier IX: Zerstorer 1944

tier X: Zerstorer 1945

 

Since individual names (in this case numbers, since Germany rarely named its destroyers) are used in WoWS:

 

T2: V25 (Großes Torpedoboot 1913, maybe with a hull representing Großes Torpedoboot 1916/mob

T3: B97 (Torpedobootzerstörer)

T4: V170 (Großes Torpedoboot 1918Mob)

T5: T22 (Elbing class)

T6: Z1 Leberecht Maas (Zerstorer 1934/1934A)

T7: Z35 (Zerstorer 1936B)

T8: Z46 (Zerstorer 1936C)

T9: Z52 (Zerstorer 1944)

T10: Z57 (Zerstorer 1945)

 

The last two are based on the number of Zerstorer 1944 and 1945 that had been planned, plus Z51 being an incomplete Zerstorer 1942 that was laid down.

 

View PostAdmiral_Franz_von_Hipper, on 25 October 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

 

The last 3 German battlecruisers are not really any project names since the last German Battlecruiser design I found was the O-type which is covered by the Gneisenau in this game. Using some basic design knowledge on how the Germans built ships and what ships are currently in the German BB line, I would say that the Scheer would have eight 15-inch guns and the other two have eight 16-inch guns.

 

The O-class isn't exactly the same as Gneisenau's upgrade to 15" guns. But a 15" Gneisenau is so across-the-board superior to the O-class concept (ie vastly better armor) that that's not really a problem.


Edited by Lord_Magus, 25 October 2016 - 07:28 PM.


Admiral_Franz_von_Hipper #11 Posted 27 October 2016 - 02:07 AM

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I added the general outline of the characteristics for the Scheer.

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The_first_harbinger #12 Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:48 AM

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Doing you think it is possible for the tech tree to unify at tier 7 with the introduction of Gneisenau? I mean...Dreadnoughts did merge with Battlecruisers to form Fast Battleships realistically...
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Phoenix_jz #13 Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:23 AM

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View PostThe_first_harbinger, on 14 March 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

Doing you think it is possible for the tech tree to unify at tier 7 with the introduction of Gneisenau? I mean...Dreadnoughts did merge with Battlecruisers to form Fast Battleships realistically...

 

I've honestly thought that could be the case for a long time. If you could have a battlecruiser tree that's made up of 11" gun ships from start to tier VI, then at tier VII you could have Gneisenau, which could start with 11" guns. Then, after upgrading and playing with 15" guns, you go on to the Bismarck, aka, the same transition we already have in-game. Of course, you would have to find a new tier VII BB for the main German BB line, but that shouldn't be impossible...


 

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